English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Tamarlane]

Farmhouse brewing supply is another good source for British hops like bramling cross. You can buy 4oz increments of most varieties

 

[Puddlethumper]

Just regular Burton water. Those recipes are quite flexible and from the 1890s onwards can include a few oz of inverts #2 & #3 or crystal malt for colour. Some invert #2 would probably work well with the yeast. Don't get me wrong, it's good yeast for a British bitter but definitively more for something like St Austell's Tribute - pale, light, hoppy, than a Brains Bitter - light, caramelly, amber.

I just found a recipe for a Bass Pale Ale clone that calls for Burton's yeast. Bass pale is a good beer and would be enjoyed by a number of people around here so that will probably be the direction I go with this yeast (at least for now). Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Farmhouse brewing supply is another good source for British hops like bramling cross. You can buy 4oz increments of most varieties

Great link. Thanks!

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, I rarely see Bass around here (apart from in the supermarket) but it's a good one to try for this particular yeast. It can be good in cask if the pub has kept it well and it's fresh. It really used to be the Coke of its day, but not anymore...

http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/the-bass-red-triangle-things-ab-inbev-wont-tell-you/

 

[Tamarlane]

I usually use MO for my English ales but brewed my latest with golden promise. Slightly milder flavor - maybe less biscuity but I threw in some aromatic to compensate. It's another very good option if your lhbs runs out of MO or you want to change things up


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, I rarely see Bass around here (apart from in the supermarket) but it's a good one to try for this particular yeast. It can be good in cask if the pub has kept it well and it's fresh. It really used to be the Coke of its day, but not anymore...

http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2013/06/28/the-bass-red-triangle-things-ab-inbev-wont-tell-you/

 

[Puddlethumper]

Just picked up a 50# sack of Crisp MO so I'm ready to go for a while. That Bass recipe looks pretty good. And thanks for the link. Very interesting (and saddening) to see such further and vivid evidence of how often big corporations can be so clueless about the products they are selling.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I found a couple recipes for Bass & Co. ale that look good. However, I can't find Bass locally so I have no way to tell which is going to be closer to the "real deal". I also understand there is a difference between the draught and bottled offerings of this famous beer. Maybe someone here can look at the two recipes and provide their thoughts:

Recipe #1

Ingredients:
7.0 lbs. (3.2 kg) 2-row pale ale malt
2.0 lbs. (0.91 kg) flaked maize
1.0 lb. (0.45 kg) crystal malt (60 °L)
0.75 oz. (21 g) roasted barley (300 °L)
8.0 AAU Northern Brewer hops (60 mins) (0.89 oz./25 g of 9% alpha acids)
2.0 AAU Northern Brewer hops (15 mins) (0.22 oz./6.3 g of 9% alpha acids)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15 mins)
1/8 tsp. yeast nutrients (15 mins)
White Labs WLP023 (Burton Ale) yeast (1.25 qt./~1.25 L yeast starter)


Recipe #2

Ingredients:
9.0 lbs. Maris Otter
1.0 lbs. Crystal 80L (British med crystal)
0.5 lb. Carapils
2.0 oz. Chocolate
1 tsp. Irish Moss (15 min)
1.0 oz. EK Goldings (60 min)
1.0 oz. Fuggles (2 min)
White Labs WLP023 (Burton Ale) yeast (1.25 qt./~1.25 L yeast starter)

BTW, I did make recipe #2 a year ago, bottled, and enjoyed it. But again, have no idea how close it was to the original. And since I am kegging now, am certain that will add another dimension to how the finished beer will turn out.

 

[JKaranka]

I don't think either one sounds close! I'd expect pale malt, some crystal and brewer's caramel for colour. They might use Northern Brewer as a bittering hop nowadays but it's a fairly modern hop. Finishing hops are definitively in the EKG/fuggles ballpark. Also, in cask this beer is dry hopped. I'd expect 1/2oz EKG there. I think it is about 30 IBU or so. Also, remember that Bass as a brand is really old, but the recipe has changed considerably. In the 1830s this would have been more like pale malt and EKG with a big dry hop.

 

[Puddlethumper]

It sounds like #2 is a better starting point but still aways from the mark. I was a little dubious about the Northern Brewer in a traditional British beer, but the poster had some street cred and the recipe would undoubtedly make a nice drinking beer. And your point that the recipe has probably changed over time is a good one. It makes the finished product a rather moving target, eh?

So say we begin with recipe #2 using the more traditional English hops, where would you go with it from there?

 

[JKaranka]

You should research Worthington's White Shield. It's much more popular than Bass and the recipe has not suffered as much over time. I'm sure you find info on British Forums (plus it should use similar yeast).

 

[Puddlethumper]

You should research Worthington's White Shield. It's much more popular than Bass and the recipe has not suffered as much over time. I'm sure you find info on British Forums (plus it should use similar yeast).

I hadn't heard of Worthington's until you mentioned it. Spent a little while on line looking for recipes and most came up with an IPA. In my search for a good Bass & Co. ale I thought I was looking for a more traditional English ale recipe rather than an export...a beer one might expect to find on tap in an English or Welsch pub. Did I miss the mark somewhere on this?

 

[JKaranka]

White Shield's been around for donkeys years, and yes, it's an IPA. Bass is just very rare, in some blogs you see comments whether it's just for the export market. Try Pedigree or Adnams Southwold Bitter for popular low gravity ales but I don't think they'd work with the yeast you've got, while White Shield'd be good.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Fair enough. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[JKaranka]

Michael Jackson on White Shield:
http://beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000194.html

 

[Puddlethumper]

Michael Jackson on White Shield:
http://beerhunter.com/documents/19133-000194.html

Great link. Thanks!

The article describes a beer completely different from the American IPA's that have become so popular. Is White Shield being distributed widely enough that you can get it now?

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, it's in the supermarket. I should buy a couple of bottles.

To be fair, they must have relaunched Bass recently as I've seen it in bottles. Bass used to be the only ale of a crappy alternative music venue I used to go to. The whole place stank of piss as the toilets upstairs leaked and the average age was probably 17. I've only one other time seen a venue serving it and it was a village pub in the West Country.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Yeah, it's in the supermarket. I should buy a couple of bottles.

To be fair, they must have relaunched Bass recently as I've seen it in bottles. Bass used to be the only ale of a crappy alternative music venue I used to go to. The whole place stank of piss as the toilets upstairs leaked and the average age was probably 17. I've only one other time seen a venue serving it and it was a village pub in the West Country.

Doesn't sound like it is all that highly regarded any more.

 

[JKaranka]

Gosh, drinking the fourth pint of Exe Valley's dark mild. You're not a good brewer till you crack a good dark mild. Plus I've had free samples of six Celt brewery ales. All ok, cool and experimental, but so hop centric they don't stand to a beautifully crafted 3.9% dark mild. A good evening, though. Puddlethumper, you have to try mild.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Gosh, drinking the fourth pint of Exe Valley's dark mild. You're not a good brewer till you crack a good dark mild. Plus I've had free samples of six Celt brewery ales. All ok, cool and experimental, but so hop centric they don't stand to a beautifully crafted 3.9% dark mild. A good evening, though. Puddlethumper, you have to try mild.

That sounds great. Problem is they are about as scarce as chicken teeth over on this side of the pond. Can't say I've even seen a mild for sale in even the best bottle houses. I have seen a number of recipes for mild ales but really have no idea if what I end up with will taste like it should. Its kind of like a life-long blind man trying to understand what the color yellow looks like.

I guess I'll just have to start saving up for a plane ticket, eh?

 

[Tamarlane]

That sounds great. Problem is they are about as scarce as chicken teeth over on this side of the pond. Can't say I've even seen a mild for sale in even the best bottle houses. I have seen a number of recipes for mild ales but really have no idea if what I end up with will taste like it should. Its kind of like a life-long blind man trying to understand what the color yellow looks like.

I guess I'll just have to start saving up for a plane ticket, eh?

Agreed, every single mild I have ever had had been a homebrew. Even the craft brewers don't dabble in them

 

[JKaranka]

Gosh, not sure if to try to explain mild... I think that lots of Americans think it is a weak porter, but it's nothing of the like. Porters were heavily hopped beers that were aged and brewed with pale, brown and black malt. Milds were less hopped ales that were served unaged (mild) and brewed with pale malt. When milds became darker they did not become porters but they darkened by adding mainly dark brewing sugars. Checking Shut Up About Barclay Perkins, ABVs dropped through the 1800s from 6-10% abv to 4-6% by the 1910s, while SRM increased from 6-7 to 12+ in the same time, all with additions of invert sugar #2 and #3. Often some dark malts would be added but the roast flavours are not expected of a dark mild, with the focus being more on the dark fruit flavours. Dark milds can finish sweet or dry, but in general, even if they have (optional) roast flavours, these are secondary, making them completely unlike a porter, specially giving the low hopping and bittering.

If I had to describe some dark milds to a beer expert I'd say that they are more like half of a Belgian dubbel without Belgian yeast. They have half the IBUs, half the grain bill, they don't finish as dry and they don't have all the funks, esters and such like. They are not just bland brown beers. The mild I had last night was, flavour-wise mainly complex malts, cane sugar, a hint of coffee (but not roasty), prunes and raisins, a tad of bitterness but no hop flavour. There was also a clear note of brewery trademark yeast and the finish had a light dry/sour note. I'd describe a dubbel as the same lot of flavours but amplified, specially phenols and alcohol.

I bet now you're completely puzzled!

Not sure if you can find them on online shops, but I'd expect Thwaites Nutty Black (more of a roasty one), Cairns Dark Mild or Brains Dark to be more heavily distributed as they are regularly bottled and canned.

 

[redshift76]

Surly released a real nice mild a few months ago. Good to see a brewery known for big extreme stuff do a session beer. I plan on brewing a dark mild soon after having enjoyed this so much. From Surly's website:

Surly Mild
Our first session beer. An English-style Mild.
STYLE: English Brown Ale-Dark Mild

MALT: Pale Ale, Golden Promise, Brown, Crystal, Roast
HOPS: Columbus
YEAST: English Ale

OG: 10º Plato
ABV: 3.8% v/v
COLOR: 14 ºSRM
IBU: 21

 

[JKaranka]

If I see American milds at this side of the pond I'll let you know how they compare. I'm still surprised that none of them seems to use adjuncts or brewing sugars of any kind, when lots of the British grists use some of them (usually dark invert syrup but could be just brewers caramel and flaked maize). I'm so going to stick a pound of dark candi syrup in my next mild! :rockin:

 

[Hanglow]

Highland Dark Munro is my favourite mild at the moment. A great beer

I posted this on one of the other low abv/session ale threads a while ago, it's a list of grainbills from various milds. Shows how much variation there can be

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=56335&hilit=mild+grainbill


I'd also be a bit wary of buying it bottled, I'm never much of a fan of the lower abv bottled british beers, they really are a lot better on draught as they are so much fresher. Bigger and darker beers hold up much better of course

 

[JKaranka]

Hanglow, I've linked that list before as well! It's great, everything from pale & crystal to seven different ingredients to lots of sugar or simply pale malt. Brains Dark is 0.6% abv stronger in bottle and it really needs it.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I have a British book on home-brewing. A number of recipes in it were contributed by Paul Saunders. I guess he's better known to those who follow the BrewUK forum as Saracen. Perhaps you have heard of him?

He contributes the following recipe. Does this look like it would make a credible mild ale?

Suffolk Mild

3,000 gms - Mild Ale Malt
300 gms - Crystal Malt 200
100 gms - Roasted Barley

Mash 90 min.
Boil 60 min.

18 gms - Fuggles - 60 min.
15 gms - Golding - 60 min.
18 gms - Fuggles - 10 min.
5 gms - Golding - 10 min.

Wyeast 1968 or Safale S-04

OG - 1.037
FG - 1.010
ABV - 3.5%
Bitterness - 26 EBU
Color - 80 EBC

I do notice that there is no invert sugar in the recipe. I understand this is a common ingredient for mild ales but will the beer come up short without it?

 

[CKing]

This is looking to become my regular English Bitter recipe, so simple yet my best result to date:

9.5 lbs Maris Otter
0.5 lbs Crystal 80

East Kent Goldings:
1.0 oz @ first wort hop
0.5 oz @ 15
0.5 oz @ 10
0.5 oz @ 5
0.5 oz @ flame out

S-04 dry yeast

 

[JKaranka]

Puddlethumper, you should try a dark mild as it was/is brewed! You have some recipes from SUABP here:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/lets-brew-wednesday-1945-tetleys-mild.html?m=1
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/lets-brew-wednesday-oldham-1987-mild.html?m=1
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/lets-brew-wednesday-1952-lees-best-mild.html?m=1
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/lets-brew-wednesday-1955-whitbread-xxx.html?m=1

 

[Puddlethumper]

Puddlethumper, you should try a dark mild as it was/is brewed! You have some recipes from SUABP here:

Great looking recipes! And thanks for taking the time to post the links.

I would like to give each of them a shot. But I did notice they seem to have in common both lengthy mash and boil times. Those times are no problem for the pro-brewery or the well-set-up home-brewer. And I can boil as long as needed as long as I start with enough wort, but the mash times may be an issue. I have a simple insulated mash tun without the capability of adding heat. It does fine for a 60 min mash but beyond that will have to keep adding hot water. One of them goes well over 2 hours. If you were to brew one of these recipes how would you handle this?