English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[shoreman]

I just brewed a Landlord Recipe this past weekend and always go with 100% golden promise - I feel like the hop bill is what makes that beer unique. It’s my 3rd time brewing it and am amazed at how complex the beer turns out. I like verdant to ferment it but I’m not going for a clone, I’m just inspired by that beer. We used to be able to get Landlord in the bottle in the states but not anymore.

 

[Brewskey]

I just brewed a Landlord Recipe this past weekend and always go with 100% golden promise - I feel like the hop bill is what makes that beer unique. It’s my 3rd time brewing it and am amazed at how complex the beer turns out. I like verdant to ferment it but I’m not going for a clone, I’m just inspired by that beer. We used to be able to get Landlord in the bottle in the states but not anymore.

What do you think about the ester profile of Verdant? Others have said something about vanilla. I have some that I need to try.

 

[shoreman]

Not sure I’ve noticed vanilla in that yeast, but it’s become my favorite British dry yeast and now pretty much use that and Nottingham on occasion. It reminds me of Conan which is also a British yeast, has good fruitiness and floccs nicely. It also ferments dry which I appreciate, but I also mash low.

Try it out on a basic Bitter.

 

[Witherby]

Gordon Strong has published two very similar Landlord recipes (one in his book Modern Homebrew Recipes and the other one from Brew Your Own) and both call for a 2-3 ounces of debittered black malt in the vorlauf just for color. The one from Brew Your Own says "Golden Promise makes up the full grist of Timothy Taylor Landlord, so I use that. However, the beer has a darker color that I'm not sure I can reach with just that malt. The easiest approach is to use a small amount (2% maybe) of a darker malt to adjust the color without adding significant flavor. I also use a very hard boil and a little chalk in the boil to increase color." He always builds up from RO water and for a 5 gallon batch he adds1/4 tsp. 10% phosphoric acid and 1 tsp. calcium chloride (CaCl2) to the mash and 1/2 tsp. calcium carbonate (CaCO3) to the boil kettle. If you watch the Timothy Taylor brewery tour with Peter Eells he does add brewing salts to the mash but no mention of chalk in the boil.

For hops it is:
6.75 AAU UK Fuggle hops (60 min.) (1.5 oz./43 g at 4.5% alpha acids)
4.1 AAU UK Golding hops (10 min.) (0.75 oz./21 g at 5.5% alpha acids)
1 oz. (28 g) Styrian Golding hops (0 min.)

The video shows the use of a hopback and I think a 0 minute addition of Styrian Goldings is probably a good approximation of that.

 

[Colindo]

Do you think there would be some invert in Landlord?

They did not state any in the Real Ale Almanac, so I never used any. I wonder if that's a new trend, since I did not notice that on their webpage when I researched for the recipes in 2021. Maybe I just overlooked it.

I can say that Golden Promise is a great malt on it's own that does not need to hide. It's flavour does become quite watery, though, if served beneath 10°C, as I noticed when brewing a lager with it.

If you watch the Timothy Taylor brewery tour with Peter Eells he does add brewing salts to the mash but no mention of chalk in the boil.

Somewhere it is shown that part of the salts are added during the boil. They only mention burtonisation though.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm currently trying to revive a frozen Whitbread slurry which I added a dash of glycerine to before freezing. Added it to the starter wort yesterday evening and no signs of life this morning. If this shouldn't work out, I'll be pitching half a pack Windsor and Notti each and brew a basic bitter. Maybe chevallier based. Probably 5% invert and 5% crystal, a dash of black malt, let's see.

 

[Colindo]

I'm currently trying to revive a frozen Whitbread slurry

Which yeast is that exactly? WLP007 is very robust, but not sure about the others.

 

[Miraculix]

Which yeast is that exactly? WLP007 is very robust, but not sure about the others.

If i remember correctly, it was wy1099.

 

[Colindo]

I see. Might not be as robust. Never tried freezing yeast, so all I can say is good luck!

 

[Miraculix]

I see. Might not be as robust. Never tried freezing yeast, so all I can say is good luck!

Thanks. It is an experiment. I gave it a 70/30 chance to succeed. Maybe it's bubbling now, can't see it, I'm at work. I will throw in some s04 if it should wake up. The mix of both should be superior to the single strains according to some testings here in the forum.

 

[Brewskey]

Thanks. It is an experiment. I gave it a 70/30 chance to succeed. Maybe it's bubbling now, can't see it, I'm at work. I will throw in some s04 if it should wake up. The mix of both should be superior to the single strains according to some testings here in the forum.

I think you'll have success. I keep multiple strains frozen in 50ml vials. 25ml slurry, 20ml water, 5ml glycerine. When making a starter from a frozen vial it takes a while for it to really get going but I have had 0 failures.

 

[Miraculix]

I think you'll have success. I keep multiple strains frozen in 50ml vials. 25ml slurry, 25ml water, 5ml glycerine. When making a starter from a frozen vial it takes a while for it to really get going but I have had 0 failures.

Ok, that sounds promising. In my case, we're talking about about 600ml of thick slurry.

 

[mac_1103]

I keep multiple strains frozen in 50ml vials. 25ml slurry, 25ml water, 5ml glycerine.

Always give 110%.

 

[Brewskey]

Always give 110%.

Good eye. 20ml water, not 25.

 

[Shenanigans]

Good eye. 20ml water, not 25.

Is it really that simple?
Might give it a go as I'm taking up a whole shelf in my fridge with slurry in mason jars.

 

[mac_1103]

Is it really that simple?

Back in my lab days, we used to freeze bacteria and yeast strains by just putting a mL of culture in a tube, throwing in a few uL of glycerol and sticking them in the -20. Of course, we did have some serious equipment advantages when it came time to build them back up.

 

[Brewskey]

Is it really that simple?
Might give it a go as I'm taking up a whole shelf in my fridge with slurry in mason jars.

It's really not difficult. I have a pressure canner so I put the water/glycerine solution into autoclavable plastic vials and heat them at 15psi to sterilize and add the yeast after cooling. I believe I used the process from one or both of the links below.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/guide-to-making-a-frozen-yeast-bank.35891/https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/freezing-yeast.678455/

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I am actually in the process myself of starting a frozen yeast bank, just got a bunch of 100ml lab jars.
Will in the coming weeks make 2 larger starters of one yeast each, boil 50/50 glycerine/water then mix 50/50 in the yars glycerine water and slurry.
Plan is to use one jar of each yeast in a combined starter ~ a week in advance of brewday.

 

[Miraculix]

I am actually in the process myself of starting a frozen yeast bank, just got a bunch of 100ml lab jars.
Will in the coming weeks make 2 larger starters of one yeast each, boil 50/50 glycerine/water then mix 50/50 in the yars glycerine water and slurry.
Plan is to use one jar of each yeast in a combined starter ~ a week in advance of brewday.

I think that I have read that more than 10% glycerine in the final solution is actually detrimental.

 

[Brewskey]

I am actually in the process myself of starting a frozen yeast bank, just got a bunch of 100ml lab jars.
Will in the coming weeks make 2 larger starters of one yeast each, boil 50/50 glycerine/water then mix 50/50 in the yars glycerine water and slurry.
Plan is to use one jar of each yeast in a combined starter ~ a week in advance of brewday.

It's great to be able to walk to the freezer and have multiple strains available any time you need them. For strains I use regularly I'll still top crop or save slurry from a fermentation so I'm not using a frozen vial each time. But, they're there if I need them.

 

[Shenanigans]

I think that I have read that more than 10% glycerine in the final solution is actually detrimental.

Now I remember why I have a 10 year old bottle of glycerin in the cupboard.
I was all up for doing this when I got back into brewing and ordered it but there was so much conflicting information I just gave up on the idea.
Now after more brewing experience I'm more relaxed.
Like a lot of home brew processes, perfection is not required to get acceptable results. It probably doesn't give the best results possible but as long as it works to store the yeast for extended periods and can be propagated enough to brew a batch within a week of defrosting then that's fine.
Now on a commercial scale perfecting the process can be much more critical of course.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

final solution

 

[Brewskey]

uh-oh

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

But on a serious note, I think the glycerine in the bottle already contains some water, so if I mix it 50/50 the resulting mix is probably more like 70/30 water/glycerine.
This is then mixed 50/50 with slurry so in theory it should be about 85/15, probably less since the slurry also contains some water.

 

[Miraculix]

...took me a while...

 

[Miraculix]

But on a serious note, I think the glycerine in the bottle already contains some water, so if I mix it 50/50 the resulting mix is probably more like 70/30 water/glycerine.
This is then mixed 50/50 with slurry so in theory it should be about 85/15, probably less since the slurry also contains some water.

My Glycerine is about 99% pure, at least that is what the label says.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Just checked, mine is 85% glycerine.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Checked gravity on the stout since the krausen and yeast dropped a few days ago and it looked like nothing was happening.
1.094-1.026, it might drop 1 point or 2 in the coming days but likely not more than that.
I am gonna brew an identical beer but scaled down to 1.070 for a "normal" stout, and now I know with this grist and mashing regimen I can expect an attenuation in the low 70's, ie right where I want it.
Probably gonna rack to secondary with some oak, hops and a shot of Brett'd old ale next weekend.

 

[kmarkstevens]

But in all seriousness, given this one particular callout, and given the BYO article suggesting "Wyeast 1469 (West Yorkshire Ale) or White Labs WLP037 (Yorkshire Square Ale) or Lallemand Windsor Ale yeast", what yeast would you use?

West Yorkshire and Yorkshire Square have nothing in common except the word "Yorkshire" in the title. This is an ancient BYO article, so to be forgiven for giving recommendations appropriate to that time.

West Yorkshire is really a nice yeast for a bitter. The WLP equivalent is Essex Ale. Both are easy to brew with.

Yorkshire Square is POF+ and can easily turn into a Saison type result. I did about 10 batches with it, all were very random, none were great, and it was far too much a yeast for my modest skills. And after all those batches, I wasn't even sure if there would ever be a good result.

For my palate, Windsor is not a good yeast. Far too fruity although it has been at least a decade since I last used it.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Has anyone done any mix testing with Windsor?
Being rather fruity and low attenuating I suspect it was once part of some brewery multi-strain, and might perform better when co-pitched with a more neautral, attenuative and flocculating yeast.