English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[HM-2]

It leans into both history and the more modern. Heritage malts, some more historic hops (Target and First Gold) along with newer Charles Faram stuff.

 

[An Ankoù]

Still been very much enjoying my English IPA.

Talking of which, here's an English IPA made very much like an American IPA. The hop mix is:

TROPICAL ENGLAND - 2021 crop • 6% AA. A mix of 5 English grown hops including Jester, Olicana, Godiva, Mystic & Archer that will infuse a tropical aroma into a refreshing English IPA with a difference. 100g late addition/dry hop will do just nicely in a 23 litre brew, but adding another 100g will hit the mark.

There's no need for the extra 100 grams in my opinion. It's quite an amazing beer. I'm pretty sure CML ship to the US and at very reasonable postage rates.

https://www.crossmyloofbrew.co.uk/beer-recipes?pgid=krxkwatx-adc7a9ca-a820-4576-916c-fab4ed3cc279

 

[DBhomebrew]

My 3rd gen top-cropped WLP-037 is now chewing on a brown ale. It's based on a Josh Weikert American Brown Ale I've brewed previously, this time leaning heavily toward an English impression and what was in the cupboard.

1.060 / 31 IBU
72% Best Pale Ale
6% Amber
6% C65
9% Chocolate Rye
7% Flaked Barley
13IBU Fuggle FWH
13IBU Cluster 60m
5IBU Fuggle 30m

I haven't been this pleased with a beer in a long time.

Big mouthful of chocolate, dark fruit, and earth. Roasty and dry with spice and coffee hanging around forever begging for another sip.

A perfect Friday beverage with one of my best mates.

 

[Brewskey]

I haven't been this pleased with a beer in a long time.

Big mouthful of chocolate, dark fruit, and earth. Roasty and dry with spice and coffee hanging around forever begging for another sip.


A perfect Friday beverage with one of my best mates.

WLP037 is Yorkshire Square right? How do you like that yeast? I've never tried it but have heard mostly negative things about it.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Wow, glad you liked the WLP037. That yeast is waaaaaay beyond me. I've whined about it elsewhere. First vault strain I ever got. Did at least half a dozen tries. Never could get something consistent. POF+ and could end up two months later in the bottle being saison-ish, and not in a good way.

 

[DBhomebrew]

WLP037 is Yorkshire Square right? How do you like that yeast? I've never tried it but have heard mostly negative things about it.

Wow, glad you liked the WLP037. That yeast is waaaaaay beyond me. I've whined about it elsewhere. First vault strain I ever got. Did at least half a dozen tries. Never could get something consistent. POF+ and could end up two months later in the bottle being saison-ish, and not in a good way.

I tried a bottle at 3wks conditioning and was utterly disappointed. Sharp, sweet, blech. Patience won the day. Really, truly pleased with it now, down to the bottom of the glass.

Before the all-grain stouty brown ale, I had brewed two small batches of simple extract bitter. The first batch, a gallon, was not very good at all. The second, 3G, isn't very good either. Not bad, just squarely meh.

All three batches were fermented in a loosely covered bucket with twice daily rousing during active fermentation.

Can't say I'll use the strain again, I don't brew often enough to pitch very fresh each time. I think I'll give 1469 a shot next.

 

[Brewskey]

I tried a bottle at 3wks conditioning and was utterly disappointed. Sharp, sweet, blech. Patience won the day. Really, truly pleased with it now, down to the bottom of the glass.

Before the all-grain stouty brown ale, I had brewed two small batches of simple extract bitter. The first batch, a gallon, was not very good at all. The second, 3G, isn't very good either. Not bad, just squarely meh.

All three batches were fermented in a loosely covered bucket with twice daily rousing during active fermentation.

Can't say I'll use the strain again, I don't brew often enough to pitch very fresh each time. I think I'll give 1469 a shot next.

I just did a Stong Bitter with 1469 and it seems to be a great yeast, 79% attenuation with a good dose of invert. Tasted good going into the keg, It's going to condition for a month, will be a long wait.....

 

[tracer bullet]

I tried a bottle at 3wks conditioning and was utterly disappointed. Sharp, sweet, blech. Patience won the day. Really, truly pleased with it now, down to the bottom of the glass.

This has been my experience with it as well. For the first few weeks I tell myself to not use it again. By a month or so it gets better, and by the end of the keg I really like it. It's what I used in a recent nut brown ale that I'm drinking these days.

As a fairly impatient person though, I will still remind myself to try other options.

 

[Miraculix]

That basically applies to all bitters. I'm also bloody impatient. So very often, the last bottles are the best.

 

[DBhomebrew]

The very meh bitter that I'm talking about was brewed in October. Still very, very meh.

 

[kmarkstevens]

1469 W Yorkshire and WLP037 are not even the same family of yeast. WLP. Both have Yorkshire in the name, but that is the only commonality.

WLP022 Essex ale seems to be the 1469 equivalent strain. I really like both of these. Haven't done a side by side yeast off yet but will.

W Yorkie and Essex both will give you a nice light estery English session beer. Essex is a vault strain, so the 1469 is typically easier to get.

 

[DBhomebrew]

1469 W Yorkshire and WLP037 are not even the same family of yeast.

Sure they are. Potentially delicious, supposedly characterful English yeasts. Did the Fuller's for awhile. Tried the 037. On to the 1469.

 

[Beermeister32]

This has been my experience with it as well. For the first few weeks I tell myself to not use it again. By a month or so it gets better, and by the end of the keg I really like it. It's what I used in a recent nut brown ale that I'm drinking these days.

As a fairly impatient person though, I will still remind myself to try other options.

Time to buy a couple more kegs to place into rotation. Brew two more batches (my favorite good old reliable Nottingham) so your kegs have one or two months on them before tapping. With me, the cure for impatience was more kegs.

 

[eshea3]

Was in Sheffield recently and was fortunate to find a Simonds 1880 Bitter from The Kernel on cask. Brewed from this recipe Simonds Bitter (1880) – Durden Park Beer Club , it was a remarkable beer. Giving it a go this morning with a 5L batch to go in a mini CD cask. Haven't done a small batch been in quite a while, but thinking I should do more of these.

 

[skunkape]

Favorite English Ales? You can't go wrong with the clone kits from Austin Homebrew. (yeah they've been Borg'd by whoever owns Northern and AIH) My faves: Morland Old Speckled Hen, Theakston Old Peculiar, Worthington's White Shield, Tim Taylor Landlord Strong, Bishop's Finger. Usually brew the Brit beers with Notty for the flavors and cause it flocs like putty. Sometimes Windsor if I feel like changing it up.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Sure they are. Potentially delicious, supposedly characterful English yeasts. Did the Fuller's for awhile. Tried the 037. On to the 1469.

These are all English yeasties, so I guess from that POV they are the "same." Not sure if this is the latest, but Suregork did the genetic sequencing and there is this wonderful eye chart: Suregork Loves Beer | Beer Reviews, Homebrew, Rambling

peace

 

[DBhomebrew]

These are all English yeasties, so I guess from that POV they are the "same." Not sure if this is the latest, but Suregork did the genetic sequencing and there is this wonderful eye chart: Suregork Loves Beer | Beer Reviews, Homebrew, Rambling

peace

I have that chart, thank you.

By saying that I'm done playing with 037 for now and I'm moving on to 1469, I didn't intend to imply that are the same, similar, or whatever.

That said, I'm looking forward to Northern_Brewer's report on his BE-256 experience. I do enjoy the slight phenolic impression that comes from the Belgian-y 037.

 

[HM-2]

Desperately trying to kick my English IPA keg so I can get my old ale into circulation. Seems to be never ending. I can feel there's near as makes no difference nothing in there but the pints just keep on coming.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Suregork did the genetic sequencing

Just to give credit where credit's due, various labs around the world did the actual sequencing and uploaded them to public databases; Suregork didn't do the bench work but did take all those sequences, clean them up and throw them at A Very Big Computer to generate the "family tree".

That said, I'm looking forward to Northern_Brewer's report on his BE-256 experience. I do enjoy the slight phenolic impression that comes from the Belgian-y 037.

It's not really the right test - it's not side by side in equivalent beers (for...reasons), it's just in the big beer of my recent partigyle where it's rather swamped by a ton of DRC and other goodies. It certainly deserves its reputation for a quick and vigorous fermentation - I pitched it before going away for the weekend and it was essentially at FG by the time I got back, with some of the wort no longer in the fermenter...

I then had time to bottle it before going away for a longer trip, so I've only tried it slightly-carbed. Given that it was really just a user-upper (3yo malt, 5yo hops) for my first try at partigyling, initial impressions are that the big beer has worked pretty well, the smaller beer is meh and needs some work. Even though I thought I was fairly generous with first runnings - roughly 2:1 and 1:2 first:second for the two beers - you can really tell that the second beer isn't as full as it should be, it's ~4.5% but drinks more like <4%. I guess I was hoping for something closer to Harvey's Old Ale and instead it went more in the direction of Greene King IPA, which is hardly the beer I dream of. (as an aside, does anyone know if GK partigyle? It would fit.)

So I've learnt my lesson, not to rely on the smaller beer providing "maltiness" and body. Either I need more specialities in my original grist - more DRC, darker crystal, even dextrin malt - or I add more first runnings to the small beer and use more sugar in the big beer, or I cold steep specialities just for the small beer, or I just accept it and distract from the lack of body with a load of hops and take it in the direction of somewhere between an American Amber and a session IPA made with extra pale. I'd deliberately not gone crazy with the bittering or aroma hops first time round as I was more interested in the maltiness and I was just seeing what I ended up with.

The big lesson for me is to not aim for too much volume on your first partigyle - effectively you have one beer's-worth of water to mash two beers-worth of grain, and one of those is a big beer. I was aiming a bit smaller than usual but even then I didn't really have room to stir properly. And it's a while since I've made caramel and I'd forgotten just how much room you need in your saucepan when making it!!!

As far as BE-256 goes, I won't be able to give it a fair taste til I'm under the same roof in a couple of weeks - and hopefully be able to give it to people whose senses haven't been ravaged by Covid. But initial impressions are that it certainly ferments hard and fast, attenuated to ~83% IIRC, and there wasn't obvious phenolics in the immature beer. Although I have tried WLP540 in a SMaSH and it was OK, I haven't quite decided how I feel about it. Although my feelings about WLP540 may be hampered by the fact that I have it side by side with Rochefort dregs which are rapidly becoming one of my favourite sources of yeast! [for those in NW England, Booth's had Rochefort 6 before Christmas although I don't know if that was a one-off]. But it feels like BE-256 could have its uses for British beers, perhaps as the high-attenuation part of a blend.

 

[Colindo]

So I've learnt my lesson, not to rely on the smaller beer providing "maltiness" and body. Either I need more specialities in my original grist - more DRC, darker crystal, even dextrin malt - or I add more first runnings to the small beer and use more sugar in the big beer, or I cold steep specialities just for the small beer, or I just accept it and distract from the lack of body with a load of hops and take it in the direction of somewhere between an American Amber and a session IPA made with extra pale.

I tried the dregs of my parti-gyled Chiswick Bitter yesterday and it was pretty similar. Except that the CB is dry-hopped, which turns it into a kind of session IPA, with hops being the most prominent flavour. Also I felt that the temperature must not be lower than 13°C, because my sample was rather cold (to preserve CO2) and tasted very watery. I guess this would be lessened if served as a cask ale.

 

[ba-brewer]

Just to give credit where credit's due, various labs around the world did the actual sequencing and uploaded them to public databases; Suregork didn't do the bench work but did take all those sequences, clean them up and throw them at A Very Big Computer to generate the "family tree".

Do you know if there is an more up to date version of the "family tree"?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I tried the dregs of my parti-gyled Chiswick Bitter yesterday and it was pretty similar. Except that the CB is dry-hopped, which turns it into a kind of session IPA, with hops being the most prominent flavour.

Well the "real" Chiswick was dry-hopped.

Do you know if there is an more up to date version of the "family tree"?

Not that I'm aware of, although Suregork has had a lot on his plate lately and the big sequencing projects have rather dried up after that big burst in the late 'teens.

 

[Colindo]

Well the "real" Chiswick was dry-hopped.

Yes, we know that from the brewlog as well. I was just trying to say that maybe going down the route towards a session IPA might be the proven method, instead of trying to give the small beer more malty flavours.

 

[Shenanigans]

I have done several parti-gyles in the past. Not in the traditional stlye of mixing the two runnings. Normally it's from a big beer like an RIS, Baltic Porter, IIPA or Barleywine.
With 12 to 14 Kg of grains in the mash tonne there is enough sugar left behind for a free beer after getting the wort for the big one.

I keep all the first runnings for the first beer for 5 gallons of wort. Then add enough water for 3 gallons second runnings (batch sparge). I always cap the mash with something additional for the second runnings. Usually 300g of crystalwheat helps a lot to give it more body and flavour.
I might add some flaked oats or some kind of roast malt too depending on what style I'm aiming for and which yeast and hops I want to use up but I always add the crystal wheat. I don't sweat it too much, whatever come out comes out in the end, most important is to hit the numbers for the first beer.

Of course if you are trying to copy a known beer and have exact expectations for the second beer then you need to be a bit more calculated

 

[Colindo]

I tasted the Chiswick Bitter as a full pint from the low carbonated bottle today, together with an English Roast, and it was an incredibly drinkable beer. Strong hoppy notes, but also great mouthfeel. Had a bit of a cask feel to it due to the low carbonation and the warmer temperature. Definitely ok for a bitter, no increase in maltiness required. My Chiswick Bitter was made from 1 quarter first runnings and 3 quarters second runnings.

 

[WesBrew]

At the bottom of my first keg of Bitter. Its pretty good but dry and maybe a bit thin. I'd like some more maltiness in the beer. i made an error on the mashout so that fix should help. i was thinking of just using CaraMunich II with the MO, which should add some malty flavor without much caramel. Is that out of place in the bitter? Thoughts?

 

[kmarkstevens]

At the bottom of my first keg of Bitter. Its pretty good but dry and maybe a bit thin. I'd like some more maltiness in the beer. i made an error on the mashout so that fix should help. i was thinking of just using CaraMunich II with the MO, which should add some malty flavor without much caramel. Is that out of place in the bitter? Thoughts?

What is your mash temp? You want more mouth feel, mash high around 158F

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

And most importantly, how is your water?
I feel pretty much all English ales benefit from cl levels of at least around 100mg/L.

 

[Colindo]

I tasted the three beers from my Fuller's parti-gyle yesterday. Amazing how different the three beers turned out. They were all a bit too strong, since I could not dilute it enough back when I brewed it, because my pots were too small. But apart from that they are all three really good.

Will put one on my newly acquired hand pump soon to see what difference that makes.

 

[WesBrew]

I used RO water. CL was 93, i mashed at 150, with a target FG of .011. i forgot to raise mash temp for mashout, making it too fermentable. That will probably handle the dry issue. i had some medium crystal 3%, and some brown & black malt for coloring that amounted to 1.2%. i thought replacing those with just CaraM would give me the 10srm color and add some malty to the beer.