English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Erik the Anglophile]

Only basemalt and sugar for milds was more a pre-ww1 thing, during and after ww1 when gravities fell and brewers definitely moved away from Chevallier, Crystal became more and more standard. Not anywhere near the amounts many US-ians seem to believe though.

During the 40's and 50's a small part of roast became common in some brewers milds, Lee's for example hade a period in the 50's where they put ~8% brown malt in their best mild lineups.
But in the late Victorian era (~1880-~1900) you could see some brewers beginning to get more experimental with their milds, such as the one I condition atm, 1885 Kirkstall L, wich contains a notable part brown malt, and occasionally some crystal. Although pale/mild malt and sugar was the norm.

 

[Colindo]

@HM-2 M15 is supposed to be the same as S-04, right? I believe I heard of others having issues with sulphur when using S-04, but I never have. Could it be anything FAN-related?

@tracer bullet There are several parameters you can look at. Taking the styles as they are defined nowadays, I would go as follows:
- Hoppiness: Mild with low bitterness and subtle aroma, ESB with strong bitterness and intense aroma, Porter with strong bitterness but barely any aroma, Brown Ale with low bitterness but noticeable aroma.
- Gravity: Mild having a lower gravity, ESB the highest, Porter and Brown Ale in the middle.
- Grain Bill: Mild either pale or dark, therefore varying amounts of crystal or roasted malts. But with the lower gravity, it all tastes less intense than the others. ESB with strong crystal malt flavour, no roast flavour. Brown Ale can have hints of chocolate if going for something like Newcastle, for London Brown Ale you'll want to have sweet flavours (high mash temp + crystal malt).

Personally I would not use Maris Otter for anything stronger than 1.045, because I find the flavour too intense. Golden Promise is much better for strong ales that need a gentle nudge in the biscuity-malty direction.

 

[Miraculix]

I can confirm the S04 sulfur when fermented too cold. Made a fabulous unintentional fake lager bitter though! But a bit more of that sulfur would have killed the beer...

 

[balrog]

when fermented too cold.

What number would you put on that "too cold" as being too cold?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Lee's for example hade a period in the 50's where they put ~8% brown malt in their best mild lineups.

Currently drinking a batch of the '52. Downright delicious in a chocolate-y roasty kind of way. I'll probably make it again, but in the brown ale slot of my rotation. A very fine session stout-y brown ale.

 

[Miraculix]

What number would you put on that "too cold" as being too cold?

Mine was throwing a bit of sulfur at about 18-19 c . A friend had a sulfur bomb at about 15-16 c.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

This is my pale "Pennine mild"
Really tasty and due to such low OG a rather quick turn around.

 

[HM-2]

@HM-2 M15 is supposed to be the same as S-04, right? I believe I heard of others having issues with sulphur when using S-04, but I never have. Could it be anything FAN-related?

M15 is supposed to be the old Newcastle Dark Ale strain. Fermenting cold was definitely not an issue, pitched at 18°C and let it free rise to mid 20s.

I've had mild Sulphur from S-04 before but as said above only very cool and far milder than this. I've tended to ferment 04 warmer because I like it kicking a bit of esteryness.


Despite the sulphurous aroma the sample I took tasted pretty good. Got a nice dried apricot and fig thing going on which I think might be the interplay between CF185 and M15. Maybe I was being too hasty in my dismissal, because that sort of yeast profile is just what I'm looking for in stuff like old ales.

 

[kmarkstevens]

This is my pale "Pennine mild"
Really tasty and due to such low OG a rather quick turn around.

Recipe or it didn't happen.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Allrighty then, I posted recipe earlier in the thread but can post again.

For a 21L post-boil batch, 83% efficiency.
Simpson Vienna(mild malt sub) 2190g 75%
Simpson Crystal Light 150g 5%
Wheat malt 150g 5%
Simpson Crystal Dark 90g 3%
Invert 3 350g 12%
The invert is a emulation, 50% base sugar(white refined cane) and the other half 2/3 light muscovado and 1/3 dark muscovado. Add at last 15 min.
Boil 90 min
Challenger 15.5g 60 min
EKG 15g 20 min
EKG 8g dry hop in keg

20 IBU OG 1.035 FG 1.011 abv 3.2% ( with priming sugar)
Could have attenuated just a bit more, 1.009-8 would been perfect. But a nice refreshing pint anyways.
For a rebrew I'll mash just a little bit lower.
And DO NOT dry hop in the keg!

 

[tracer bullet]

@tracer bullet There are several parameters you can look at. Taking the styles as they are defined nowadays, I would go as follows:
- Hoppiness: Mild with low bitterness and subtle aroma, ESB with strong bitterness and intense aroma, Porter with strong bitterness but barely any aroma, Brown Ale with low bitterness but noticeable aroma.

First, thanks!

For malts, I've been thinking ESB gets Pale, Brown gets Maris Otter, Porter gets Golden Promise.

For hops I've been thinking ESB gets First Gold, Brown gets EKG, and Porter gets Fuggles.

For yeast I'm thinking ESB gets Pub or 1968, Brown I'll try 1275 (Thames) and 1098 (Brit I) both, Porter is still TBD.


These aren't rules or anything I'm stuck on, just what I think I'll use the next time I brew each.

I'm drinking an absolutely delicious brown ale right now but had the realization that it's very much a light version of my porter. So I'm trying to make these small changes (maybe not so small, actually) to differentiate the beers.

 

[DBhomebrew]

ESB gets Pale, Brown gets Maris Otter,

FYI, the MO is most likely a pale ale malt. MO is a variety of barley. Pale Ale malt is a level of kilning. Really, you're looking at a choice of pale ale malts made of MO vs Golden Promise, Optic, Concerto, etc.

Also, each maltster makes a slightly different MO-based pale malt. So you will find a difference between the MO pale ale malt made by Crisp vs Fawcett vs Warminster vs Baird's. Also floor-malted vs not.

For the last year or so, I've kept two UK base malts. One, a fresh grainy variety such as Simpson's Golden Promise. The other, a maltier type such as Simpson's Best Pale Ale (Concerto). The delta between was noticable in my nearly 100% base malt bitters. When it just recently came time to restock, I chose an Optic pale (Love the stuff! Like grain straight from the field.) and a UK Vienna. The difference is largely in the kilning (2.5 vs 3.5°L), not so much in the variety of barley.

 

[Colindo]

@tracer bullet Sound like a solid plan. May I suggest Wyeast 1469 for the Porter? Should work well with Golden Promise and Fuggle.

 

[tracer bullet]

@tracer bullet Sound like a solid plan. May I suggest Wyeast 1469 for the Porter? Should work well with Golden Promise and Fuggle.

I'll move it to the top of the list for the next time I brew the porter. That's a good idea. I have used it in the Brown recipe, and it was a bit funky, but not in a bad way. I was aiming for a little smoother and richer and so I decided against a future use there. I run the porters on the dry side and I think that funkiness might go very well with the rest.

 

[Miraculix]

I'll move it to the top of the list for the next time I brew the porter. That's a good idea. I have used it in the Brown recipe, and it was a bit funky, but not in a bad way. I was aiming for a little smoother and richer and so I decided against a future use there. I run the porters on the dry side and I think that funkiness might go very well with the rest.

That actually brings me back to the idea of using t58 in small amounts, like 10% to 30%, together with a rather clean yeast like notty or s04.

Could be interesting, also as a porter!

... Now that I think about it, I think @Northern_Brewer came up with this idea first.

 

[Colindo]

@tracer bullet Not sure about funkiness, but Wyeast 1469 is quite fruity when fermented at 21-22°C. I did a porter at 16°C once and there it creates a very neutral flavour that enhances fullness quite noticeably. I'd go with the latter for your porter.

 

[tracer bullet]

I should have been more clear, it was definitely fruity, in a good way. I picked up a little "tang" to it, not quite sour but something a little interesting. The beer wasn't spoiled, I just thought the yeast leaned a little that direction. It was probably around the time I was also trying all the sours I could get my hands on, and I also may have had too much dark crystal influencing things, so my memory and opinion are and were probably lacking or skewed. I'll certainly give it another go.

In the end I'm just trying to get out of the Maris Otter / Medium Crystal / EKG / 1469 rut. I realized how often I use the combo and am just looking for new hops and yeasts to try, what other folks like best for each of the styles*.

(* Recognizing that ESB, Brown and Porter are just descriptions and I'm not trying to adhere to any guidelines)

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

@tracer bullet
About 5% light crystal(~100 ebc) and 3-4% amber with invert is a nice combo in a best/premium bitter.
Gives a malty sweet-ish base flavour with just a barely notable subtle toastyness, goes really well with a dry hop of some hop like Celeia or Bobek with a little citrus tang to it.

I just closed up my re-attempt of my light bitter, krausen had receded about 2/3 and some yeast pooled up at the bottom, so I decided to dry hop while there was still some activity to push out and scrub oxygen. 10/5g Fuggle/EKG dry hop combo.

 

[eshea3]

FYI, the MO is most likely a pale ale malt. MO is a variety of barley. Pale Ale malt is a level of kilning. Really, you're looking at a choice of pale ale malts made of MO vs Golden Promise, Optic, Concerto, etc.

Also, each maltster makes a slightly different MO-based pale malt. So you will find a difference between the MO pale ale malt made by Crisp vs Fawcett vs Warminster vs Baird's. Also floor-malted vs not.

For the last year or so, I've kept two UK base malts. One, a fresh grainy variety such as Simpson's Golden Promise. The other, a maltier type such as Simpson's Best Pale Ale (Concerto). The delta between was noticable in my nearly 100% base malt bitters. When it just recently came time to restock, I chose an Optic pale (Love the stuff! Like grain straight from the field.) and a UK Vienna. The difference is largely in the kilning (2.5 vs 3.5°L), not so much in the variety of barley.

Which maltster for the Optic?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Which maltster for the Optic?

Fawcett Spring Pale Malt

 

[DBhomebrew]

I really am a big fan of Fawcett's Optic. One of my favorite HB bitters has been a batch of @Miraculix's Best with Optic.

 

[Colindo]

That's interesting, because T-F Spring Pale Malt is one of the malts that are easily available in Germany. Time for a test, I'd say. I used it once before and did not notice a difference, but that was at the very beginning of my homebrewing when all the other parameters were still in fluctuation.

The German shop says that T-F Spring Pale Malt is made up "mostly of Tipple and Propino and a substitute for Optic". When I switch the language to English, it says "Optic". Very confusing. Is there a statement from T-F about what the malt is made up of? Couldn't find it on their website...

Edit: Here they say "Spring varieties such as Golden Promise and Propino are also available."

 

[DBhomebrew]

To tell the truth, I don't know. In American advertising, it's all "Spring PA Malt (Optic)", but I wouldn't be surprised that it's possibly another spring barley. A few years ago Fawcett sold Optic as Optic. That's when I picked up a 5lb bag and made that one very delicious batch of Mx Best. Then they ended that label quickly after and made me sad. 55lbs (~2yrs) of Golden Promise later, this Spring PA (Optic (et al)) is available and I jumped on it. Honestly, I bet I wouldn't know the difference between Optic and the other similar spring barleys. I doubt Golden Promise is ever sold under the Spring PA label. GP has too much name recognition to go under a generic label, it's got its own.

I have an email in to Fawcett asking for lot specifications.

Edit: For what it's worth, Fawcett's product code is TF-OPPA. Read that as you will. I hesitantly read it as OPtic PA.

 

[Shenanigans]

This is a question I put in another thread instead of here by mistake.
I promptly deleted it but forgot to repost here.

I have some WY 1275 Thames Valley yeast that I got to brew an English IPA recipe that I saw on here.
It turned out nice but didn't blow me away.

I would like to use it again sometime this Autumn/Winter
Anyone have any decent recipies where they have used this yeast?

I might just do a standard ESB with 93-95% MO and 5 to 7% Medium crystal hopped to 35 to 40 IBUs

 

[tracer bullet]

I have some WY 1275 Thames Valley yeast that I got to brew an English IPA recipe that I saw on here.
It turned out nice but didn't blow me away.

What did it add to the beer, and what were you looking for instead? Just curious.

I have 1275 on the list for my next Brown Ale. There was a podcast (Experimental Brewing) with an interview with the head brewer at Cigar City. They were talking about the evolution of Maduro (great beer) and 1275 was brought up. Sounds like the brewery stopped using it in favor of 1968 because 1968 flocculated faster and they could turn the beers over more quickly. But they both were saying how wonderful 1275 was in a brown ale. So it's been on my list to try and maybe it's one to consider?

 

[Shenanigans]

What did it add to the beer, and what were you looking for instead? Just curious.

I have 1275 on the list for my next Brown Ale. There was a podcast (Experimental Brewing) with an interview with the head brewer at Cigar City. They were talking about the evolution of Maduro (great beer) and 1275 was brought up. Sounds like the brewery stopped using it in favor of 1968 because 1968 flocculated faster and they could turn the beers over more quickly. But they both were saying how wonderful 1275 was in a brown ale. So it's been on my list to try and maybe it's one to consider?

The brown ale idea sounds interesting as it's a style I haven't yet tried to brew myself.
I just found this on Brewer's Friend and with a few subs I would have everything needed (Caramunich III insteads of C-60 and biscuit/amber malt instead of victory)
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1178366/cigar-city-maduro-brown-lbs-clone-wars-
The IPA I brewed with 1275 was pretty nice but the English esters were not really present like what I got from WLP005.
They were there but very subdued.
It can be that I fermented too cold at around 18oC as WY say 17 to 22 oC is optimum and White labs say the equivalent WLP023 Burton Ale is 20 to 23oC.

The beer I brewed was the one in post #3 of the thread below. I have brewed it 5 to 10 times with different yeasts (WLP005, WLP002, WLP007, WLP023, WY1275).
I actually much prefer it from the bottle than the keg but it goes downhill after about a month, like a lot of hoppy beers in bottles. I might try bottling the next version again now that I have improved my bottling process to reduce oxidation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/anyone-brewed-an-ipa-with-ekg.140192/

 

[Miraculix]

The brown ale idea sounds interesting as it's a style I haven't yet tried to brew myself.
I just found this on Brewer's Friend and with a few subs I would have everything needed (Caramunich III insteads of C-60 and biscuit/amber malt instead of victory)
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1178366/cigar-city-maduro-brown-lbs-clone-wars-
The IPA I brewed with 1275 was pretty nice but the English esters were not really present like what I got from WLP005.
They were there but very subdued.
It can be that I fermented too cold at around 18oC as WY say 17 to 22 oC is optimum and White labs say the equivalent WLP023 Burton Ale is 20 to 23oC.

The beer I brewed was the one in post #3 of the thread below. I have brewed it 5 to 10 times with different yeasts (WLP005, WLP002, WLP007, WLP023, WY1275).
I actually much prefer it from the bottle than the keg but it goes downhill after about a month, like a lot of hoppy beers in bottles. I might try bottling the next version again now that I have improved my bottling process to reduce oxidation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/anyone-brewed-an-ipa-with-ekg.140192/

Bottle condition and minimise the headspace to 5mm. Results will last ages.

 

[Shenanigans]

Bottle condition and minimise the headspace to 5mm. Results will last ages.

Yes that is exactly what I meant with my "improvements" since I last bottled it
But if you share any bottles with someone make sure to let them know up front that the bottles are so full

 

[Northern_Brewer]

To tell the truth, I don't know. In American advertising, it's all "Spring PA Malt (Optic)", but I wouldn't be surprised that it's possibly another spring barley. A few years ago Fawcett sold Optic as Optic.

I'd be very surprised if it it was Optic unless it was very old stock. You have to remember that seeds have two target markets - the farmer/grower and the consumer/brewer etc who may want very different things - for instance Citra doesn't have great yields, so isn't a great favourite of farmers, but brewers love it. Conversely Tolhurst has twice the yield of most other hops, but it's not great for brewing with. The way that conflict is resolved with cereal varieties in the UK is that each year the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) publishes a list of recommended varieties of each of the major crops, following trials around the country looking at agronomic factors like yield, disease resistance but also (in the case of barley) the suitability for brewing/distilling - nitrogen content, germination rates and so on. The result is a list of a dozen or so varieties that give farmers some choice, but only of the best of the best. And the process is brutally Darwinian, individual varieties typically only last 5-8 years on the list - some time ago I posted a chart of how they come and go [Edit - #2,368 Also note how unimportant, bordering on irrelevant, Maris Otter is in the wider scheme of things]. Optic was really unusual in lasting as long as 20 years on the list, but it got dropped 6-7 years ago. Propino and Concerto are other stalwarts that were dropped recently - these days it's all about Planet, Laureate and Diablo, and it looks like Skyway could be The Next Big Thing.

Once a variety gets dropped from the list there's no real reason for farmers to grow it - by definition they have been dropped because newer varieties have better yields/agronomy whilst still being acceptable to the maltsters. So you won't be able to grow it unless there's something special enough about the flavour that someone like Robin Appel takes over the whole market for that variety as they did for Otter, or Simpsons for Golden Promise. But there's nothing particularly special about the flavour of spring barleys on the list. It's a bit different for some of the winter barleys on the list - Flagon is the one that usually gets talked about as halfway to Otter - but I've never brewed with it myself.

But I wouldn't worry about trying to get Optic versus Propino versus Planet - they near enough taste the same.

 

[Miraculix]

So... I wanted to brew a strong english ale. I threw together 3 kg imperial malt (self converting brown malt), 4,5kg Chevallier pale and thought.. that might be a bit pale for an old ale. So I added 60 g carafa spezial 2 and 120 g black wheat as I had it on hand. I added about 0,8 kg homemade invert no.2 to up attenuation and OG.

Fast forward 4 hours: 1,1 OG and I have something very very dark.... brownish dark.

Ok, I am now officially fermenting a victorian porter? Well.... if it is what it is.. then let's go for it.

Yeasts of choice: 1 Pack Nottingham, 1 Pack S04, 2g of T-58 and a cheaky dash of BR-8 brett.

Did I mention the hops? 50g of Chinook IN THE MASH, admiral and Fuggles as a 60 minute addition. Man, this wort surely is bitter. Should be between 70 and 80 IBUs. Quite a lot for me.. I usually stay lower.

I hope the mash hops plus the T 58 and maybe the BR 8 do funky stuff together. I am a bit excited about this one!

It is a bit wild but let's see how it goes! The Br-8 Brett does not ferment longer sugars, so it is safe to bottle once fermentation is done. I will leave it in the fermenter for about 2 weeks and then bottle it in 0,33 l bottles.

Tbh. I wanted to get rid of the malt so this experiment came in handy. I am not a big fan of the current chevallier anymore, unless it is used in a beer that is intended to be aged. Just like this one.

I still need to brew an imperial malt only beer within the 4% abv range. That should be aaaaall the flavour one needs!

 

[Pennine]

So... I wanted to brew a strong english ale. I threw together 3 kg imperial malt (self converting brown malt), 4,5kg Chevallier pale and thought.. that might be a bit pale for an old ale. So I added 60 g carafa spezial 2 and 120 g black wheat as I had it on hand. I added about 0,8 kg homemade invert no.2 to up attenuation and OG.

Fast forward 4 hours: 1,1 OG and I have something very very dark.... brownish dark.

Ok, I am now officially fermenting a victorian porter? Well.... if it is what it is.. then let's go for it.

Yeasts of choice: 1 Pack Nottingham, 1 Pack S04, 2g of T-58 and a cheaky dash of BR-8 brett.

Did I mention the hops? 50g of Chinook IN THE MASH, admiral and Fuggles as a 60 minute addition. Man, this wort surely is bitter. Should be between 70 and 80 IBUs. Quite a lot for me.. I usually stay lower.

I hope the mash hops plus the T 58 and maybe the BR 8 do funky stuff together. I am a bit excited about this one!

It is a bit wild but let's see how it goes! The Br-8 Brett does not ferment longer sugars, so it is safe to bottle once fermentation is done. I will leave it in the fermenter for about 2 weeks and then bottle it in 0,33 l bottles.

Tbh. I wanted to get rid of the malt so this experiment came in handy. I am not a big fan of the current chevallier anymore, unless it is used in a beer that is intended to be aged. Just like this one.

I still need to brew an imperial malt only beer within the 4% abv range. That should be aaaaall the flavour one needs!

What don't you like about Chevalier anymore? I have half a sack to use up and I am also not a big fan of it.

 

[Miraculix]

What don't you like about Chevalier anymore? I have half a sack to use up and I am also not a big fan of it.

I think it differs from harvest to harvest. The first time I tried it, it was really nice, like a mix of 90% base and 10% of the finest crystal malt you can find. The Chevallier I got now is pretty harsh and needs a lot of time to pull itself together. After 3-6 months it is usually really good, but before that, it is not nice. Better throw it in a high OG beer and age the F out of it.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I think it differs from harvest to harvest. The first time I tried it, it was really nice, like a mix of 90% base and 10% of the finest crystal malt you can find. The Chevallier I got now is pretty harsh and needs a lot of time to pull itself together. After 3-6 months it is usually really good, but before that, it is not nice. Better throw it in a high OG beer and age the F out of it.

Wich years harvest you got?

 

[Miraculix]

Wich years harvest you got?

I can only guess. I bought it at the beginning of this year so it's probably either last year or the year before.

 

[Pennine]

I think it differs from harvest to harvest. The first time I tried it, it was really nice, like a mix of 90% base and 10% of the finest crystal malt you can find. The Chevallier I got now is pretty harsh and needs a lot of time to pull itself together. After 3-6 months it is usually really good, but before that, it is not nice. Better throw it in a high OG beer and age the F out of it.

Harsh sums up how I feel about it as well, maybe even spicy and grainy. I might keep a couple kilos and post the bag as a giveaway just so it gets used up. It will take me a long time to get through it.

 

[Miraculix]

Harsh sums up how I feel about it as well, maybe even spicy and grainy. I might keep a couple kilos and post the bag as a giveaway just so it gets used up. It will take me a long time to get through it.

Brew something strong with it and age it well. The harshness goes completely away with time. It just might take half a year or longer. A strong ale smash with some noble hop would be a very good idea.

 

[Miraculix]

So... I wanted to brew a strong english ale. I threw together 3 kg imperial malt (self converting brown malt), 4,5kg Chevallier pale and thought.. that might be a bit pale for an old ale. So I added 60 g carafa spezial 2 and 120 g black wheat as I had it on hand. I added about 0,8 kg homemade invert no.2 to up attenuation and OG.

Fast forward 4 hours: 1,1 OG and I have something very very dark.... brownish dark.

Ok, I am now officially fermenting a victorian porter? Well.... if it is what it is.. then let's go for it.

Yeasts of choice: 1 Pack Nottingham, 1 Pack S04, 2g of T-58 and a cheaky dash of BR-8 brett.

Did I mention the hops? 50g of Chinook IN THE MASH, admiral and Fuggles as a 60 minute addition. Man, this wort surely is bitter. Should be between 70 and 80 IBUs. Quite a lot for me.. I usually stay lower.

I hope the mash hops plus the T 58 and maybe the BR 8 do funky stuff together. I am a bit excited about this one!

It is a bit wild but let's see how it goes! The Br-8 Brett does not ferment longer sugars, so it is safe to bottle once fermentation is done. I will leave it in the fermenter for about 2 weeks and then bottle it in 0,33 l bottles.

Tbh. I wanted to get rid of the malt so this experiment came in handy. I am not a big fan of the current chevallier anymore, unless it is used in a beer that is intended to be aged. Just like this one.

I still need to brew an imperial malt only beer within the 4% abv range. That should be aaaaall the flavour one needs!

Fermentation is going all nuts! The upper part of the air lock is almost constantly levitating, that much co2 is being released.

Smells pretty good so far, lots of fruit and a HUGE kräusen plus loads of blow off.

I will directly throw a bitter on the yeast cake of this mixed beauty once it's bottled.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'd be very surprised if it it was Optic unless it was very old stock. You have to remember that seeds have two target markets - the farmer/grower and the consumer/brewer etc who may want very different things - for instance Citra doesn't have great yields, so isn't a great favourite of farmers, but brewers love it. Conversely Tolhurst has twice the yield of most other hops, but it's not great for brewing with. The way that conflict is resolved with cereal varieties in the UK is that each year the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board (AHDB) publishes a list of recommended varieties of each of the major crops, following trials around the country looking at agronomic factors like yield, disease resistance but also (in the case of barley) the suitability for brewing/distilling - nitrogen content, germination rates and so on. The result is a list of a dozen or so varieties that give farmers some choice, but only of the best of the best. And the process is brutally Darwinian, individual varieties typically only last 5-8 years on the list - some time ago I posted a chart of how they come and go [Edit - #2,368 Also note how unimportant, bordering on irrelevant, Maris Otter is in the wider scheme of things]. Optic was really unusual in lasting as long as 20 years on the list, but it got dropped 6-7 years ago. Propino and Concerto are other stalwarts that were dropped recently - these days it's all about Planet, Laureate and Diablo, and it looks like Skyway could be The Next Big Thing.

Once a variety gets dropped from the list there's no real reason for farmers to grow it - by definition they have been dropped because newer varieties have better yields/agronomy whilst still being acceptable to the maltsters. So you won't be able to grow it unless there's something special enough about the flavour that someone like Robin Appel takes over the whole market for that variety as they did for Otter, or Simpsons for Golden Promise. But there's nothing particularly special about the flavour of spring barleys on the list. It's a bit different for some of the winter barleys on the list - Flagon is the one that usually gets talked about as halfway to Otter - but I've never brewed with it myself.

But I wouldn't worry about trying to get Optic versus Propino versus Planet - they near enough taste the same.

Got definitive word back from Thomas Fawcett. My particular sack of Spring Pale Malt is Laureate.

 

[Colindo]

Very interesting!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Their reasoning is exactly what @Northern_Brewer explains.

"You’re right, it’s not Optic anymore. As a barley variety it was superceded by other spring malting barleys that yielded much better so farmers stopped growing it. We changed from “Optic” to “Spring” Pale Ale malt as no single variety has ever managed to become established for more than 1 or 2 harvests. Since September 2022 we’ve been malting a good variety called Laureate, which is what the malt you have is." -TF