Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

[mattmmille]

Follow the link and go to third paragraph for info on stabilizing your wine.

 

[noblex]

Start at paragraph 3 when your FG has hit where you want it.

I'm really feeling stupid right now but.. I can't find any link here and the istructions in first page has only 2 parts

 

[jiMithing83]

I'm really feeling stupid right now but.. I can't find any link here and the istructions in first page has only 2 parts

>>>

Cold crashing won't stop fermentation if the wine is brought back to room temp. Beer makers sometimes cold crash to drop proteins, trub and some yeast from suspension, but there are enough active yeast cells to bottle/keg carbonate after priming sugar is added. Here's a good article. https://www.mainbrew.com/stabilizing_prior_to_bottling-ExtraPages.html

:thumbsup

 

[peejaynj]

A question about pasteurizing. That im sure may be answered somewhere in here but I'm going to ask anyway because I haven't read this all. If I use juice that was already pasteurized before I made it into hard cider, do I have to stove top pasteurize it again anyways? Or if I just let the yeast go until it's done, as in leave it in the fermenter for the 3 weeks till its done, will it not be needed to be pasteurized?

 

[mattmmille]

If I recall correctly, I've been told that pasteurized juice is hard to get to ferment...but if you do, then exposing it to open air and adding stuff to it, including yeast, introduces new critters that need to be pasteurized, if you want to bottle without creating bottle bombs.

 

[peejaynj]

If I recall correctly, I've been told that pasteurized juice is hard to get to ferment...but if you do, then exposing it to open air and adding stuff to it, including yeast, introduces new critters that need to be pasteurized, if you want to bottle without creating bottle bombs.

It's fermenting like crazy actually. It's actually part beer (one gallon of lme/specialty grains/brown sugar) it's still bubbling after a full week and the krausen has changed two different times. Sooo just gonna wait it out and pasteurize to be safe I guess.

 

[mattmmille]

It's fermenting like crazy actually. It's actually part beer (one gallon of lme/specialty grains/brown sugar) it's still bubbling after a full week and the krausen has changed two different times. Sooo just gonna wait it out and pasteurize to be safe I guess.

Yeah...if you don't ferment it out to bone dry, and you bottle it, then you should pasteurize.

 

[phug]

Pasteurized juice will ferment just as readily as unpasteurized juice. But even if you start with pasteurized juice you are adding live yeast which is what you are trying to kill by pasteurizing again via the steps in this thread

 

[dmf38]

I just pastuerized my first batch of cider and it went smoothly. No bottle bombs. It sure is time-consuming though. I might try using a big cooler next time. Just started a new batch of cider, and I added a cinnamon stick this time.

 

[minneappleus]

I'm new here, so pardon me if anything in this post falls outside the guidelines. I have a sous vide circulator that I'm planning on using to create a water bath with. That way, I can easily dial in the temperature and not worry. This is what I plan on using. By the way, this little machine also does wonders for cooking proteins... Best burgers and steak I've ever had.

 

[phug]

if I had one, I would totally use it whenever I pasteurize

 

[Ike]

Working my way through this thread, I've seen people mention testing their individual "system" with a bottle filled with water matching the temp of the bottles they're treating. I have also seen people post the various times vs. temps for proper pasteurization. I can see the value of meeting those times/temps if I was selling the brew or needing a long shelf life.

BUT: What if all I wanted to do was kill the yeast off so I don't get bottle bombs (instead of a full pasteurization), and was planning on me and my friends consuming them in reasonably short order? Is it enough just to heat to 110-120 degrees internal temperature? Assuming I do this, what internal liquid temp (in the test bottle, not in the bath) would you consider adequate?

OR, is there concern that even in an alcohol-bearing solution, killing off the yeast will allow more hardy microbes to proliferate without the competition, leading to sickness even in the short-term (I'm thinking about stuff like botulism), and therefore complete pasteurization is the only way to go?

 

[RebelliousVanilla]

Here is the process I have been using. This is the second batch, no bottle bombs. I wear protective chemistry goggles, and use caution when pouring boiling water onto these bottles...very slowly. I usually put in a little hot water first so it doesn't shock them completely. Then pour the boiling water in. It takes a few pot fulls to fully cover bottles. I also will let some of the hot water out, to get higher temps. It takes awhile but works. I lock the lid on too and just keep them in there for about 10 min at 170. So far no bottle bombs and the carbonation is perfect. I use seltzer bottles as my tester to know when I want to pasteurize. This last batch I pasteurized after a full day. The previous one was 3 days max.

 

[BKamp1457]

Here is the process I have been using. This is the second batch, no bottle bombs. I wear protective chemistry goggles, and use caution when pouring boiling water onto these bottles...very slowly. I usually put in a little hot water first so it doesn't shock them completely. Then pour the boiling water in. It takes a few pot fulls to fully cover bottles. I also will let some of the hot water out, to get higher temps. It takes awhile but works. I lock the lid on too and just keep them in there for about 10 min at 170. So far no bottle bombs and the carbonation is perfect. I use seltzer bottles as my tester to know when I want to pasteurize. This last batch I pasteurized after a full day. The previous one was 3 days max.

Damn good idea. I was going to do the stove + pot method, but mine would only hold 5-6 at a time.

 

[TDirgins]

I am following the guidelines for Mike's Caramel Apple Cider. The bottles are in the 190 degree bath but the bottles are fizzing out under the caps....were the bottles over-carbed? Will the batch be a loss? Help!

 

[mattmmille]

I would be concerned about too much carb for pasteurizing.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Sounds like either they're over carbed, or the caps weren't on tight enough. Most likely the former as it's easy to do.

 

[TDirgins]

Well, I got them all done, with the last bomber blowing the lid off the pot and making a general mess. I kept the fizzy ones separate from the rest. Should I assume that the ones where cider escaped into the bath are a loss? (i.e. since liquid got out that bacteria can now get in?).

Not sure I want to go through that ordeal again...I may opt for kegging/force carbing next time.

 

[Ike]

Should I assume that the ones where cider escaped into the bath are a loss? (i.e. since liquid got out that bacteria can now get in?).

IMHO: Never throw anything away! Particularly now that you've taken the time and effort to pasteurize, after already brewing and bottling. I can dig your idea about keeping them separate, but my guess is that the seeping was due to the relatively high pressures created by the pasteurizing process. Assuming no damage was done to the bottle cap seals (something I'd feel it would be safe to assume) then the fact that stuff was leaking OUT doesn't mean anything can now get IN.

One concern, though: did you say bombers? Like 22oz bottles? The reason I ask is the system is based on getting to a temperature high enough to get the ENTIRE fluid inside the bottle to 140 degrees. I was figuring the system mentioned here is designed for 12 ounce bottles. Because the fluid column of bottled cider is thicker in a 22 oz bottle, I'm guessing it would take longer for the very middle of the bottle to reach that temperature. Keep an eye on the bombers, you may not have been able to get them fully pasteurized.

 

[TDirgins]

I only have one surviving bomber and am keeping that one super cold. Thanks for the tip though!

 

[Zelmor]

I have a really quick question regarding carbonation.

Let's assume that I would like to carbonate my wine/cider, however, I have already clarified it with bentonite and isinglass. What are the chances of yeast still being alive after 2 rackings (1 off bentonite, 1 off isinglass)?

The beverage in question is coffee wine made with brown sugar, going from 1.065 to 1.000 in 3 days flat prior to fining.

 

[phug]

Chances are it still has enough to carbonate. Maybe not quickly, but still

 

[slym2none]

Yeah, I'd say it might take up to 4 weeks, but it should carbonate.

Then again, I am often given to fits of ultracrepidarianism.

 

[Ike]

Hey everybody, not wanting to double-post but I did a little experiment using a similar method described in another thread with cooler water (165 degree bath) with and without a preheat in tap water.

The original thread is:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7138735#post7138735

I thought it might be relevant to include here too, so here it is:

What brought this on: I did my first-ever batch pasteurization earlier today, a six bottle batch of ginger beer. To approximate the process I’d be using in general, I set up four “dummy” bottles filled with water only and capped them. They all sat around with the ginger beer bottles to get to room temperature, put them through a “pretreat” as you mention here for 10 minutes in the hottest tap water I could get into the sink, then I treated all of them for ten minutes with a 175 degree starting bath temperature. After ten minutes I set all the bottles into an open-topped plastic tub to cool, but immediately popped the top on one of the WATER ONLY bottles and was surprised to find the internal temperature of the bottle was 166 degrees! This means that 175 degrees for ten minutes is MORE than enough to meet the “140 for 10 internal temperature” rule. SO, I got to thinking about two things:

1.) Just how low can we go, temperature-wise, and still hit 140 degrees internal temperature for ten minutes;

And

2.) How much of a difference does the “pre-warming” in the sink really make?


My humble test methods:

-I started by preparing 20 standard 12-ounce longneck bottles with room-temperature (70 degrees) water, filled to about 1.5” from the top, and capped them all. I planned two batches:

-The first batch was the “no prewarming” batch, where I just took the room temperature bottles and put them right in the hot bath.

-The second batch was the “prewarming” batch, where I first treated the bottles to 10 minutes of the hottest water I could get from my tap.

Treatment details: I did the treatments in my Bayou Classic 10 gal pot that I use for boils. It measures 18” tall x 14” diameter. I placed a round cooling rack in the bottom of the pot to allow the hot water to get as much contact with the bottles as possible. The amount of water I used for the treatments was about 4.3 gallons, enough to get to about ½” below the caps when all ten bottles are submerged. Target temperature for both batches was 165 degrees; I was sure I could get the treatment temperature down a bit based on the earlier results from the 175 degree batch.

I DID use the lid on the pot.
I DID NOT continue to add heat through the treatment time, just flame off and bottles in.
I DID NOT insulate the pot, just let it cool. Insulating the pot would have yielded even better results, will have to consider that for future trials.

-Every five minutes, I removed one bottle, GENTLY inverted it a couple times to make sure the temperature in the bottle was consistent, popped the top, and measured the temperature of the water inside the bottle. I ran each treatment for twenty minutes, then removed all the bottles to my cooling tub. I then kept the clock running and continued to check temperatures in the bottles every five minutes to get an idea of how quickly they cooled. They cooled outdoors, in the mentioned tub; it was a windless 75 degree day.

Here’s how things ended up:

WITHOUT PREWARMING

Time (minutes) Bottle internal temp. (degF) Bath temp. (degF)
0------------------------70----------------------163
5-----------------------131----------------------151
10----------------------138----------------------148
15----------------------140----------------------146
20----------------------140----------------------144
Remaining bottles were removed, and during the cool:

Cooling time (minutes) Bottle internal temp (degF)
5------------------------------133
10-----------------------------128
15-----------------------------124
20-----------------------------124


WITH PREWARMING

(The hottest water I could get from my tap was 130 degF. The prewarm cycle was a ten minute soak in water that was initially 130 degrees. Unlike the procedure used by the OP, I did NOT top off with fresh hot water as it cooled. After ten minutes, the internal temperature of one of the bottles was 103 degF. I immediately moved all ten into the treatment bath at that point.)


Time (minutes) Bottle internal temp. (degF) Bath temp. (deg F)
0----------------------103------------------------165
5----------------------141------------------------155
10---------------------147------------------------153
15---------------------148------------------------151
20---------------------147------------------------148
Remaining bottles were removed, and during the cool:

Cooling time (minutes) Bottle internal temp (degF)
5----------------------------140
10---------------------------134
15---------------------------132
20---------------------------126

(sorry about the crappy formatting on the numbers. I should have imbedded jpgs of the tables. Next time...)


My humble conclusions:

- Even without the prewarming, the lower 165 bath temperature still came very close to meeting the rules for “140 for 10” after only ten minutes in the bath. I know that 138 degrees isn’t 140, but it’s definitely much higher than the 120 degrees that is considered “yeast death temperature.” Leaving the bottles in for 20 minutes would pretty much have satisfied the rule. But this would take longer to do a full batch, and since you can preheat the coming batch while the previous batch is “cooking,” it’s a good time-saver.

- With prewarming, the lower temperature of 165 degrees still knocks it out of the park. A bottle removed after ten minutes in the bath would be 147 degrees, would have been over 140 since the five minute mark, and would still be over 140 for the first five minutes of the cooling cycle, so you’re good to go.

- There are SO many different directions you can take this. I was very surprised at how quickly the bottles reached equilibrium with the bath temperature. If you were worried about exploding bottles (due to higher carbonation levels or whatever) and wanted to experiment with even lower temperatures for longer soak times, have a go! Also, I’d figure the lower the temperature seen by the beverage, the less effect on taste there would be (no?). Find a bath temperature and time interval that works for you!

- I really like the idea of treating a CLEARLY MARKED water-filled bottle at least once in a while to check your process and make sure you’re hitting your targets. This way, you KNOW how hot your beverage is getting. Obviously, use your noggins kids: NO opening of carbonated bottles while they’re still hot, right!? The heat capacity of water is higher than that of ethanol, so if anything the temperature the mixture of water and alcohol in your drinkin’ bottles will be just a smidge higher than your water-only test bottle.

Holler if I missed any details in the procedure, I will address them.

 

[captbonez]

I attempted to pasteurize my homemade hard root beer today. After quite a bit of reading I decided to use my Sous vide machine to keep the water temperature steady. http://sansaire.com/ I preheated the bottles in very hot tap water then placed them in the water bath at 170 degrees for 10 min. LUCKY for me I decided to do this outside on my back deck. At the 9:30 mark one bottle exploded. Another 30 seconds and I would have been pulling it out of the water. I shut the power off to the Sous Vide and let it sit for about 20 min before I dared pull the bottles out. I spent about 10 min cleaning up the broken glass and it took another 20 min to find the top of the bottle. It was about 30 feet away out in the yard. The rest of the bottles are now in the fridge and until I figure out a safer way will not be pasteurized.

 

[Zelmor]

Sous vide is for vacuum cooking, not for this kind of use. Try a good old pot next time. No need to stabilize the temperature, you start high so that the water doesn't cool below the pasteurization temperatures while the yeast dies of heat exposure. You were essentially cooking your brew instead of just heating it.

You have to cut corners and pasteurize without boiling since you are working on a closed system with high internal pressure already. Physics.

 

[captbonez]

Sous vide is for vacuum cooking, not for this kind of use.

I used the Sous Vide as my heat source in place of the stove. It keeps the water at a perfectly steady temperature. In my mind that is better than worrying about falling temperatures of a pot I have heated to 190 and turned off the heat. Anyway I saw someone else in this thread had used it also. Will not be using the Sous Vide as my wife will not let me take the chance of ruining it. (love our Suos Vide Steaks and veggies)

 

[markcurry]

I've used my Sous-Vide to Pasteurize a few bottles of cider similar to this thread. I own one of the Anova's - basically a Stick heater that you clamp to one of your own pots.

I went for a lower temperature, longer time method. I don't have the numbers handy right now - I'm thinking it was in the 140 range. Less heat, less chance of exploding bottles. Balance that with more time, using appropriate Pasteurization tables.

I chickened out in some regard, as it was only a few bottles, and I hedged bets by sticking them in the fridge anyway. They were tasty, and didn't last the week. So I've not really tested the longer - term shelf stable part yet.

Just my two cents on using sous-vide for Pasteurization. I use it to heat my strike water too!

Regards,

Mark

 

[captbonez]

the Sansaire is the same as Anova,just as you described, a heat stick. I had a Pasteurization table at one point but I'll be dammed if I can find it again. I'm liking the idea of low and slow.

 

[bingggo]

I assume someone has done this in the last 100 pages, but what if anything is the effect on taste of pasteurising in this way

 

[Captincanuck]

When using the Grolsch bottles for this do you replace the seals each time? I tried without using new seals and they all started blowing out the side when I put them in the 160 water after about 3min? They weren't overlay carbonated, I popped one and it was perfect (before the hot water). Also left about 1.5" of head space.

 

[Blue-Frog]

I am not carefully following this thread, but I just did a few swing-top bottles and noticed that
some "burping" did begin to occur at ~60 C.

Things will depend upon the tension (adjust by bending the cage wires),
the CO2 content, head space and the time/temps involved.

There should be no need to use new seals each time; examine them visually and replace when they no longer have a healthy "spring".

Recall that in canning there is also outgassing taking place.

I could be wrong, but I think it is possible there isn't any real problem...

I think the level of carbonation that this works well with this -
is at the very bottom of the bubbly range. Keep it gentle!

If the bottle pushes foam out of the head upon opening - there is too much carbonation to pasteurize with a reasonable margin of saftey.
my 2 yenYMMV

I am just learning myself, but a few observations, fears are:

1. Gas rises. If the bottles are upright, under water,
then the burped gas should escape with no inflow of water...
but if they are upside-down, the head space gas will be where there is no exit, while the bottom pointing swing-tops will burp to exit your precious liquid into the heating water. I don't know if any of that water will sneak in or not, but nevertheless, the loss of fresh brew is not ideal.

2.
All of this is also probably true for crown cappped bottles as well... except perhaps eflux of liquids thru cork/plastic liners - not sure about how this works - people doing small scale pasteurization will probably have seen bubbles escaping from underwater bottles if it is occurring.

If anyone reading this has a friend where pasteurization is used daily, see what info/stories you can get

 

[rnorman57]

I am fairly new to cider making, but reading through this and other threads it seems like the biggest unknown/ risk with these stovetop pasteurization methods is knowing how much fermentation has taken place after adding the sugar for carbonation/ sweetening and trying to choose the right time to pasteurize. What if you added the priming sugar for carbonation, capped, let it ferment to dry, chill, then un-capped the bottles and added sugar to sweeten, re-cap and immediately pasteurize? I think much of the carbonation would remain in solution and there would not be time for excessive pressure to build back up. Just wondering if anyone has tried this and what people think of this idea.

 

[actech]

Ive done the 5 day cider twice now, pasteurized both but last batch 2 bottle bombs. Damn they blow up when they go. Used the soda bottle technique,but this time figured doing them in batches with one pot would be ok. First batch used 2 pots. This time I guess took long enough that out of the 4 bottles left to do 2 blew. So just be careful.

 

[Eschaton_YDAU]

So, I want to try this with a batch of highly alcoholic ginger brew.

It's really sweet now, and the ginger is a bit much. The solution will be dilution. But I still want it somewhere just south of soda-sweet - the stuff is pretty great as is. It's been fermenting about 12 days.

SG is 1.05. It started at 1.114. If you do the math, it's about 8.6% alcohol.

I plan to dilute it to taste, maybe down to 1.04 (just pulled that number out of my butt). No priming solution.

I would imagine that it's going to carb up quickly - as in 24 hours or so. Fermentation is pretty active. I'll be watching it like a hawk. Does that sound right?

Maybe I should chill it now to slow things down?

I plan to track its progress with a PET bottle. When that bottle is pressurized, I'll kill the poor little yeasties.

Also, the yeast is a wine yeast - Lalvin d-47. Will I be able to stop this train?

So that's a bunch of questions. Hopefully someone can tell me if I'm horribly misguided.

 

[solbes]

I did this last year and ended up with bombs in my kitchen. No one got hurt, but I felt like I was in a war zone. Full disclosure, I'm sure it was operator error on my part so not trying to dissuade people per se.

But thought I would throw out another option. You can still make the cider as specified with carbonation and residual sugar, but put the yeast to sleep in the cold instead of killing them with heat. This year I bottled up 4 gallons (had 1 in a 0.75 L coke bottle). I could track carbonation with the PET Coke bottle, so I knew when it was time to stick them in the fridge. Last year I kept at least 12 for months in the fridge and did not have problems with over carbonation (Fridge runs at 37-38F). Same thing this year and carbonation has not changed over 6 weeks. I used regular ol' Montrachet yeast with no addt'l yeast added at bottling.

Upside: Very little danger if you put them in a fridge that is both cold enough (and your yeast goes to sleep at that temp) and you put them in at the right time. Downside: you have to have enough fridge space for the duration of your bottles.

Cheers!

 

[Ike]

You can still make the cider as specified with carbonation and residual sugar, but put the yeast to sleep in the cold instead of killing them with heat.

Cheers!

To a degree, I agree, but in my experience it's very yeast-dependent. ...Fridge temperature dependent, as well, I'd admit, but...

I made a batch of cider with Notty, and putting them in the fridge SLOWED the fermentation quite a bit, but didn't stop it. Over the course of about a month they went from perfect, to a bit too bubbly, to gushers.

I've also now made two batches of ginger beer (gettin' that recipe dialed in!) with a Red Star Pasteur (champagne, IIRC) yeast and the refrigerator doesn't even make that yeast sweat (bad analogy, I guess)! It just keeps chugging along. I'm surprised you were able to shut down a Montrachet yeast so well.

SO, YMMV and check your bottles frequently!

 

[Blue-Frog]

What yeast dies if it gets too cold?
Mostly they just ferment slower....

I refridged pet bottles of nat. carbonated rootbeer and over several years the sugar content continued to decrease...　the place to watch is the base of the pet bottle... I noticed that the indentations (constrictions?) at the foot of the bottles progressively became less and less pronounced... as the gas inside increased... every so often (1~2months?) I would remove the bottle... go outside, point the cap away from my face, and, holding the cap only by the sides (in case it were to become a bullet) and opened the caps slightly, then closing them quickly, so as not to allow too much CO2 to be released at once (if you simply opened the top... a "mentos/cola" amount of release would quickly empty your soda before you could reseal the cap- better to slowly bleed off the over carbonation)... repeatedly opening and closing the cap & bleeding the gas eventually got me to the point where the cap could be opened without getting the volcano.

Interesting thing is that after a certain amount of time, the gas can get pretty "comfortable" and start to release in a more controlled way, and not be quite as "explosive"; this can be deceptive however, because it can still keep you from reseaing the screw top if it ever gets the upperhand.

Champagne yeast is often suggested for rootbeer or sodas... (not sure why)but since they tend to ferment better when cold than say ale yeasts, they seem to be a poor choice and it should be better to choose a yeast for this process that won't ferment well cold... (!?!)

Just a common sense warning...
it is safer not to seal up live yeast on a sugar solution...
you could really make a big mess.

I put a hole in a celing with a pet bottle that lost it's cap due to over carbonation... there were a lot of people present that day but luckily no one was bending over the bottle looking at it at that exact moment....

Better to kill the yeast
and disable anything that might survive... with sorbates.

nomon keysee, nomon　keydo

 

[solbes]

In my experience most wine yeasts do not ferment well, if at all, at lower temps. Its why I make wine in the summer months as it can be pretty finicky to even start sitting in all that sugar. My only experience is with Montrachet yeast in mid to upper 30F temp range. Beer yeast would, as a few above pointed out, continue to slowly chug along in the fridge.

 

[Maylar]

I routinely put carbed cider in the fridge and have never had an over carb. They've kept for a month with no noticeable changes. When I give them away I tell people to keep it cold. I use S-04 ale yeast.

For anyone wanting to have a bit more control over what your carb level is before chilling or pasteurizing, you can make a simple carbonation monitor for your PET soda bottle. Much less subjective than squeezing the bottle for firmness.

0-60 PSI pressure gauge, McMaster p/n 3847K71
1/8 NPT to 10-32 adapter, McMaster 2684K19

Just need to drill a 3/16" hole in the cap and add a nut.

You can watch carbonation build up and chill or pasteurize when you reach your desired CO2 level.