Negra Modelo

[Drewch]

Everyone is talking a lot about Vienna malt, but Modelo's website calls Negra a "Munich Dunkel-style Lager" with "slow roasted caramel malts". Would it make more sense to start with Munich malt as your base and work in some caramel malts?

 

[duelerx]

There is a misconception from some homebrewers and BJCP cloning it as a Vienna lager, since its inception Modelo has always been sold as Munich Dunkel. Their Mexican Vienna is the Modelo Ambar. I would say Negra Modelo is more akin to a Mexican Dunkel than a German Munich Dunkel.

Also Bohemia Noche Buena is highly underated.

 

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So, a Munich Dunkel (or, I assume, any Dunkel) would be primarily Munich malt, right? I've never made such a beer, but I can "picture" it.

Maybe I should be forgetting about Pils vs. Vienna and be thinking Munich instead? Hmm. Interesting plot twist.

 

[duelerx]

So, a Munich Dunkel (or, I assume, any Dunkel) would be primarily Munich malt, right? I've never made such a beer, but I can "picture" it.

Maybe I should be forgetting about Pils vs. Vienna and be thinking Munich instead? Hmm. Interesting plot twist.

I agree it's interesting, seems key notes from Modelo it has galena, super galena (must be extract), caramel malt, dark malt, two row and six row. I think it's a Mexican Dunkel as Shiner Bock is an American Bock.

Vienna lagers in Mexico varies between breweries as XX Ámbar or Indio, Tecate not so long ago released Tecate Ámbar, flavor profile wise it taste as an American lager with coloring. If you want a real tasty Mexican Vienna clone Bohemia Vienna.

 

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I was starting to theorize 2-row was the Munich ( I suppose it *is* 2-row, just not what we homebrewers typically refer to as such). And 6-row perhaps to sort of ensure conversion, if they didn't think mostly Munich could do the job, or not sufficiently enough for them? Perhaps then some C40 or C60, and a pinch of chocolate being the rest of the listed ingredients?

I was going to use Galena, but it's high AA, and I wanted to have some hops later in the boil so I went w/ the lower AA options.

 

[Beernik]

Munich malts are one of those it’s worthwhile to look up and run the calc. Some will self-convert, some won’t.

CaraMunich definitely won’t self-convert.

 

[ghpeel]

I think I read once that CaraMunich is not as sweet as a pure Crystal Malt of the same color, but also as Beernik says, its definitely not appropriate for a base malt.

 

[FLJohnson]

Looking up info which may be direct from the brewery (?) they use 2 row, 6 row, caramel and black malts with Galena and Super Galena hops.

The brewery website (https://www.modelousa.com/pages/story-foundersnegra) does confirm this statement. And another page on the website (https://www.modelousa.com/products/negra) states, "Modelo Negra contains Water, Barley Malt, Non-malted Cereals and Hops," giving credence to Modelo's probable use of corn or rice or both in the Negra recipe.

Why have folks not been including Galena and Super Galena in their clone attempts?

I'm so glad Modelo included "water" in their divulgence of the ingredients in their Negra recipe.

 

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What makes you think this information is coming directly (or even indirectly) from the brewery?

Because it's on their website.

https://www.modelousa.com/pages/story-foundersnegra

First brewed in Tacuba, Mexico in 1925, Modelo Negra, formerly Negra Modelo, is a medium-bodied lager with slow-roasted caramel malts brewed for a rich, smooth taste. Brewed longer to enhance its flavors, Modelo Negra redefines "Dark Beer" because it is exceptionally drinkable and remarkably smooth. This Munich Dunkel-style Lager is brewed with galena and super galena hops as well as caramel malt, black malt and two and six row malt barley. These ingredients are meticulously brewed together to give Modelo Negra that bright, rich, amber hue and that iconic, medium-bodied flavor.

 

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Why have folks not been including Galena and Super Galena in their clone attempts?

Haha I see you edited your post after you found the info as well.

I haven't used Galena because whenever I've found it, it's really high AA, and so I kind of figured I'd be using very little of it in the boil and not getting hardly any flavor between the small amount plus the boil time itself. Adding it later for some flavor just felt like a gamble, accidentally not get my chiller hooked up or get distracted for a few minutes with my kid and suddenly my 10 minute addition for flavor just gave me 30 extra IBU's. I'm exaggerating of course but at mid to high double digit AA's I've been playing it safe with other hops.

All that said I would be interested to try it.

 

[duelerx]

Haha I see you edited your post after you found the info as well.

I haven't used Galena because whenever I've found it, it's really high AA, and so I kind of figured I'd be using very little of it in the boil and not getting hardly any flavor between the small amount plus the boil time itself. Adding it later for some flavor just felt like a gamble, accidentally not get my chiller hooked up or get distracted for a few minutes with my kid and suddenly my 10 minute addition for flavor just gave me 30 extra IBU's. I'm exaggerating of course but at mid to high double digit AA's I've been playing it safe with other hops.

All that said I would be interested to try it.

I do drink Modelo Especial once in a while in Mexico, and I can confirm the bitterness is higher than Tecate, Corona, or Pacifico, maybe because Galena?. It is a little lower than a Heineken and less aroma than a Bohemia Pilsner, I say Bohemia Pilsner has the highest hops aroma of the bunch. I can also say some of Negra Modelo bitterness comes a little bit from roasted malts.

 

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I thought I'd follow up on this. I brewed a version that was just under 80% Vienna malt (Briess 3.5L) and 20% corn, with a pinch each of C40, C60 and Chocolate. I think once again a made a delicious beer I really liked, but side-by-side with the real thing my mostly Vianna lager was still a bit grainy and less malty / fruity.

I'm looking at it for my next brew, and am considering moving to light Munich (Briess Litehouse, 6L) to replace the Vienna. I keep saying I'm not trying to clone it, maybe so I'm not disappointed, but have to admit that it seems like I actually am.

I'm may go off course a bit too and throw some Motueka hops in at the end to see if I can build in a bit of lime flavor. With the bulk of the hops being Saaz, which seems to work well. The Galena high AA is making me nervous, though I could add it super late or as a whirlpool hop. And yeah I'm here describing totally different hops at the same time as I say I'm kind of trying to clone it. Sigh.

 

[Jag75]

Have you tried doing a decoction mash?

 

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No, but that's an interesting idea. Would prefer to do it w/ a "normal" process but I could see how that could be a missing touch.