Dumped 3 batches in a row ☹ Can’t figure out what’s wrong.

[Panderson1]

One thing I just thought of. I have a Munich Helles that is in the conical going through a diacetyl rest. It will be interesting to taste it and see if it has the off flavor.

 

[Protos]

Never dumped a beer before this month ... Hornindal Kveik yeast.

Same here. Exactly the same. OYL-091 Hornindal. Not infected. Just ******. Dumped 3 batches for the 1st time in my 180-ish "carreer".
IDK what's the reason of the shittiness. Brewing and yeast propagation regimens were different in all three batches. Sanitation was same as with successfull non-Kveik brews brewed right before and after.
All three dumped.
My conclusion is, it's just not a good year for Hornindal.

 

[Panderson1]

Same here. Exactly the same. OYL-091 Hornindal. Not infected. Just ******. Dumped 3 batches for the 1st time in my 180-ish "carreer".
IDK what's the reason of the shittiness. Brewing and yeast propagation regimens were different in all three batches. Sanitation was same as with successfull non-Kveik brews brewed right before and after.
All three dumped.
My conclusion is, it's just not a good year for Hornindal.

Wow. Seriously? I had a vision that more and more homebrewers were going to start coming out with similar complaints/issues. This really will be interesting. I swear my gut just tells me something is wrong with this yeast. Obviously I could be wrong.

What would happen if their packaging got mixed up with a normal ale strain (or lager). And people are unknowingly fermenting it in the 90s (on purpose)? Highly unlikely lol. But thinking out loud.

Thanks for your reply. Good to hear. Unfortunate

 

[Protos]

The only decent batch I brewed with OYL-091 was the first one, inoculated from the manufacturer package. Not great but decent, comparable to Lalbrew's dry Voss, just a bit mellower. Then I reused the yeast in three different ways: fresh yeast cake from the decent batch, frozen vial with glycerol (no viability problems after 4 months in freezer) and top-cropped yeast crust dried the traditional way (good viability and no signs of infection as well). All three beers turned out very similar and ******: severely underattenuated (66 to 69%), very dull and almost flavourless. I won't buy Hornindal anymore, in my experience its subsequent generations loose the character right after the first batch. And even the first "decent" batch was nothing to write home about, to begin with. Dried Voss gives very similar and more predictable results with way less hassle.

 

[Panderson1]

The only decent batch I brewed with OYL-091 was the first one, inoculated from the manufacturer package. Not great but decent, comparable to Lalbrew's dry Voss, just a bit mellower. Then I reused the yeast in three different ways: fresh yeast cake from the decent batch, frozen vial with glycerol (no viability problems after 4 months in freezer) and top-cropped yeast crust dried the traditional way (good viability and no signs of infection as well). All three beers turned out very similar and ******: severely underattenuated (66 to 69%), very dull and almost flavourless. I won't buy Hornindal anymore, in my experience its subsequent generations loose the character right after the first batch. And even the first "decent" batch was nothing to write home about, to begin with. Dried Voss gives very similar and more predictable results with way less hassle.

Was there an off flavor? Or just didn't do their jobs properly?

 

[Panderson1]

For what it's worth, i just sampled the Munich Helles (11 gal batch) out of the conical and it tastes good. No off flavors at all. This brew was done after batch # 2 that got dumped and a week before batch #3 that got dumped. #2 was done in the same conical

 

[TheMadKing]

For what it's worth, i just sampled the Munich Helles (11 gal batch) out of the conical and it tastes good. No off flavors at all. This brew was done after batch # 2 that got dumped and a week before batch #3 that got dumped. #2 was done in the same conical

that definitely eliminates the fermenters as a source of the issue, as well as persistent infection.

If your gut is telling you it's the yeast, then just do a riff on what Miraculix said and brew the exact same beer (5 gallons or less) with a different yeast and see if it comes out without the flavor

Maybe there really is an issue with Hornendal from what others here have added.

 

[bkboiler]

Take apart your ball valves.

That's all I got.

 

[Protos]

Was there an off flavor? Or just didn't do their jobs properly?

There was a slight metallic twang to all my OYL-091 beers. Not too pleasant but not significant enough to be called the main issue. Underattenuation and dullness were bigger problems in my case.

 

[ThatVideoKid]

Last summer I brewed an IPA recipe I've made before, but I used OYL-091.

Horrendous. Undrinkable.

Very astringent and overall really weird character. I can't confirm it was the yeast, I had some process changes around that time too, but boy was that beer was a dumper.

To add some balance though, a local nano uses it to brew their berliners which are very, very good. It wouldn't be a commercial vs hb pitch thing either, as he is buying hb packs.

 

[Beermeister32]

I had an issue where I had to dump 3 batches in a row. Ended up being my mash temp gauge was out of calibration.

 

[Red Clay]

I was making really good beer on my Banjo Burner and Cajun Cooker pot in my early homebrewing days. Suddenly, my beer was undrinkable. I hadn't changed anything...except I decided to clean my pot better between brews. Which was aluminum. Turns out I was scrubbing off the oxide layer between brews and my beer had an annoying metallic taste to it.

That got me permission from the CEO (Chief Everything Officer) of the house to buy a stainless pot. Now I passivate once/year with 1 oz starsan / gallon @ 70C for 30 minutes and never scrub my pots with anything harder than a cloth.

Good beer. Happy wife. Happy life. See, stainless steel does make everything better!

 

[Allan M Tiso]

I'm going to second the idea of doing the beer with a new yeast. I would suggest LalBrew dry Voss. I find this yeast to be very predictable. I ferment at 40c with it and don't make a starter. It will probably be done in two days. You can do a half batch and use the full packet. That's an over pitch, but I haven't had any problems doing that. Or you can split the pack. Works well either way for me.

 

[Bilsch]

So let me see if I have this straight.. your batches with regular yeast are good but with kviek they suck?
If this is true then I think I'm sensing a plan of action here.

 

[Jako]

This is driving me insane. I have never dumped a beer before this month. Probably over a hundred brew days in my life. Dumped 3 batches in the past month – over 30 gallons. All the same recipe. At 1.068

I haven’t changed anything in my normal brewing process other than the yeast. Hornindal Kveik yeast.

My starters looked and did well (I didn’t taste the starter wort). The fermentation looked great. Took off fast each brew. Temp was controlled at 80f (kveik likes warm). One batch stopped at 1.031 for some reason. This past batch made it to 1.015. The other 1.010. All of them has an over the top Astringent/metallic taste. Hard to describe but it’s undrinkable. I don’t ever remember having an off flavor since my beginning brew days. I don’t remember having this terrible taste ever.

Note: the batch that made it to 1.010 was actually harvested from the batch prior (the 1.031 batch). Crop topped. Maybe that had something to do with it stopping at 1.031? Either way they both had the same bad off flavor. The 3rd batch was a brand new package. Shipped with ice.

For the 1st and 3rd batch, I pitched 2 liquid packs into my starters at 2000ml – 1.040. This is for a 11 gallon batch (1.068) IPA. Each time.

My very first attempt with this beer/hornindal recipe came out perfect (2 months ago). Probably my best beer ever. I have been trying to duplicate that brew day exactly but then next 3 all got dumped.

I can’t figure out what is going wrong. All the yeast came from label peelers on 3 separate shipments. 1st

Another note is I have done 2 other brews in between those ^. They were 5 gallon batches using different yeast and they are great. No off flavors.

I use a Brewzilla 65L and a fermzilla for the 11 gal batches. The 5 gallon batches were done in buckets and not fermzilla. I’m pretty anal about cleaning and sanitization. So the fermzilla gets soaked in PBW or Oxyclean and scrubbed/wash out good. I also soak in StarSan before transferring making sure the Starsan gets dumped as well. EDIT: The 1.010 batch was actually done in a 13gal stainless conical.... same resulting flavor though

I have gone over my list and can’t figure out what it could be. I emailed Omega Yeast and they replied fast about that yeast. I asked if anyone else had concerns about that strain recently. No

Again my 1st time using this strain was really great. Fast and clean. Amazing beer.

Any thoughts? I actually made a thread about this problem a few weeks ago BUT I tried again with brand new yeast (new shipment) and stilling getting same bad flavor/results… Bad yeast? Thoughts on this failed brew?

Just stopping in to say don't give up. Happened to me twice now. Infection once and bad yeast handling practices the next...

 

[WesBrew]

Looks like you’ve narrowed this down to the yeast. I also wondered what the ph of the mash and sparge water was. Did the wort taste good before going into the fermentor? You said you didn’t add any acid

 

[Bobby_M]

All pale beer with RO needs some acid in the mash and sparge.

 

[Panderson1]

All pale beer with RO needs some acid in the mash and sparge.

Can you or someone please direct me to a good article or video on this subject? It's something i seem to be lacking knowledge. i've seen acid malt in other people's recipes on beersmith and always wondered why. I remember trying to goggle search about it but didn't really find anything. Thanks

 

[Henbrew]

Can you or someone please direct me to a good article or video on this subject? It's something i seem to be lacking knowledge. i've seen acid malt in other people's recipes on beersmith and always wondered why. I remember trying to goggle search about it but didn't really find anything. Thanks

This is a pretty short article about mash pH.

https://beerandbrewing.com/water-and-mash-ph/
Essentially, darker roasted grains will reduce the pH more than lighter roasts. I brew a pilsner that needs 3ml lactic acid but when I brew my porter I don't need any. Also, it's not just RO water that needs pH adjustment, some tap water needs adjustment to reach target mash pH as well. I use RO water myself but if I use my tap water I have to add even more acid because I have hard water.

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

I had an issue where I had to dump 3 batches in a row. Ended up being my mash temp gauge was out of calibration.

Just out of curiosity, by how many degrees were you off target, and in which direction?
I keep reading that hitting mash temps accurately is not that important.
I mean, if you even had to dump batches because of this problem, then either this statement is not true, or your probe was off by a really large margin?

 

[Beermeister32]

If I recall it was off about 8 degrees off (mash too hot). Not sure what I did to it, maybe hit it on something when I was scrubbing it out. Probably need to get a hand held thermometer to cross-check the the one on the kettle (was BIAB.). Probably some tannin extraction too. Eck... What a mess!

 

[Taket_al_Tauro]

If I recall it was off about 8 degrees off. Not sure what I did to it, maybe hit it on something when I was scrubbing it out. Probably need to get a hand held unit to cross-check the the one on the kettle (was BIAB.)

OK thanks! That would mean about 4 °C, max. 5 °C over here. That can be definitely categorized as inaccurate, but I'm still surprised that it was so extreme you had to dump the resulting beer. Oh well, I'll keep on trying to hit mash temps as accurately as I can...

 

[marc1]

If I recall it was off about 8 degrees off (mash too hot). Not sure what I did to it, maybe hit it on something when I was scrubbing it out. Probably need to get a hand held thermometer to cross-check the the one on the kettle (was BIAB.). Probably some tannin extraction too. Eck... What a mess!

I changed my process at one point and mashed way too hot on a pils. It finished at something like 1.023 and was sickly sweet.
I added glucoamylase and fermentation kicked up again and it fermented out to ~1.000. Much stronger beer than I was anticipating, and drier, but drinkable! And the dry pils was interesting. Might make something like that again.

 

[Andres Falconer]

Actually no. I rinse with hot sink water. But this has always been the case for years and have never tasted anything at all. It is usually 5 days evaporated by the time i brew. But i guess the residue from city water is still there. I have never tasted anything like this current problem before though

I doubt this is the issue (and also bet on issues with the yeast), but rinsing with hot sink water seems to defeat the purpose of sanitizing in the first place. The water sitting in your boiler is more likely to contain nasties than the tap water coming straight from the city pipes. If I do a final rinse I use boiled tap water - often still at boiling temp.

 

[WesBrew]

Can you or someone please direct me to a good article or video on this subject? It's something i seem to be lacking knowledge. i've seen acid malt in other people's recipes on beersmith and always wondered why. I remember trying to goggle search about it but didn't really find anything. Thanks

I don't have an article link but i, and many others, shoot for a mash PH of 5.3. I also add some acid to the sparge water to get it down to 5.8. You can pick up astringency from the grains in the mash if the PH is too high. I use lactic acid and use a brewer's friend calculator online. some use acidulated malt.

 

[Panderson1]

^ Thanks. Should I still be concerned if my mash PH is normally around 5.3 - 5.7? I know 5.7 is a tad high for IPA. Maybe adding a little acid would eliminate that.

I use a digital PH meter from kegland.

I will def look into it more. Thanks

 

[Miraculix]

Can you or someone please direct me to a good article or video on this subject? It's something i seem to be lacking knowledge. i've seen acid malt in other people's recipes on beersmith and always wondered why. I remember trying to goggle search about it but didn't really find anything. Thanks

The really easy solution is 1-2% of your grist as acidulated malt on top of your grist. This works for me since ages, it's not very scientific, but enough in the right ballpark to solve the problems.

Obviously sparge water would be a different story... This rule applies for full volume mashes only.

 

[Bobby_M]

I use Brewfather to help me figure out how much acid I need to use but as a general rule of thumb, I end up adding about 4ml of 88% lactic to very pale beers (6 gallon batch). Dark golden/amber ends up at about 2mL. Dark brown to black gets none. This is based on my target of 5.35ph.

I don't have anything against acidulated malt but I generally only use it for pale German lagers as an homage to Reinheitsgebot.

 

[Panderson1]

I use Brewfather to help me figure out how much acid I need to use but as a general rule of thumb, I end up adding about 4ml of 88% lactic to very pale beers (6 gallon batch). Dark golden/amber ends up at about 2mL. Dark brown to black gets none. This is based on my target of 5.35ph.

I don't have anything against acidulated malt but I generally only use it for pale German lagers as an homage to Reinheitsgebot.

Thanks. I just ordered some lactic acid. I have experimented with acid malt recently brewing a Berliner/sour using this new 'Philly Sour' yeast. It definitely adjusted PH.... fun journey.

 

[Panderson1]

Also i ordered some fresh Cali Ale yeast. Going to brew the recipe next week. Ill update the thread.