Dried Voss (kveik in general) is amazing

[Protos]

if I want to avoid even more subtle tartness, should I just stay away from all Kveiks?

Strictly speaking, yes you should. There's no Kveik yeast that doesn't impart any tartness at all, the question is in the level of tartness acceptable to you. You may know your preference only from your own experience with Kveiks. Most people don't have problems with Kveik tartness. Some have (me too). One of the ways to mitigate tartness is to brew higher original gravity beers, which is the intended use of the Norwegian Farmhouse yeast. Another is to employ less tart strains like Hornindal. Describing its estery profile as "milky or creamy" I mean that the esters in Hornindal are very peculiar, devoid of any fruity of flowery notes, another description other than "milky" may be "distantly toffee-like". That taste is not much more pleasant than the "rotten oranges" of Voss, but Hornindal is less tart than Voss, although not significantly.
Try both and judge yourself. Preferably, start with a traditional strong Norwegian Farmhouse recipe. If you feel you like that twang really much, you may try it in other lighter styles (be ready though they may be tarter than the strong brew).What if you like them. Many do.

 

[ShaneB]

my favorite part of dry yeast is how you can order it on amazon, verdant and voss are good

 

[Miraculix]

In my experience, kweik twang or tartness does not depend on temperature. I've had this fermented and cool at room temperature, north same tartness. Lutra is the one stain that has the lowest tartness but it still has it. I've brewed a normal strength red American with it and it developed the tartness over time. Wasn't a bad beer but a tart one.

I strongly disagree with the diluting high og beer after fermentation equals watery beer though. That is simply not true. Us holy Germans (ask the beer goddess!) Are doing this solution thing since ages to squeeze out more (!!!!) Flavour from Hefeweizen. In this case because of enhanced ester production, which is not of interest in this specific case, but nevertheless, the malt and hop aspect of the flavour also stays as expected.

Basically if you dilute after fermentation a 1.1 og beer with 80 ibus by 50%, you'll end up with two "normal" beers 1.05 og and 40 ibus. I've tried that, it works. No watery thing, except if you dilute it further into the range where every beer would get watery.

 

[Protos]

Basically if you dilute after fermentation a 1.1 og beer with 80 ibus by 50%, you'll end up with two "normal" beers 1.05 og and 40 ibus. I've tried that, it works.

Probably, again a question of personal tastes...
In the same sutuation (a 1.094 OG) I felt I wrecked the flavour profile at just 25% of water dilution (which was recommended as the maximum in a BYO article on High Gravity Brew). To my surprise, I found that diluting a weaker beer (like 1.055 to 1.044) had less detrimental effect on the flavour.

Remind me please, at which stage of the process Weissbier is diluted? I'm remembering I've read something in this vein, but can't remember exactly.

 

[Miraculix]

Probably, again a question of personal tastes...
In the same sutuation (a 1.094 OG) I felt I wrecked the flavour profile at just 25% of water dilution (which was recommended as the maximum in a BYO article on High Gravity Brew). To my surprise, I found that diluting a weaker beer (like 1.055 to 1.044) had less detrimental effect on the flavour.

Remind me please, at which stage of the process Weissbier is diluted? I'm remembering I've read something in this vein, but can't remember exactly.

I'm not 100% sure but I think it's just after fermentation finished.

 

[Ninoid]

I'm not 100% sure but I think it's just after fermentation finished.

In bottling (keg) time?

 

[Protos]

Well I've found where I read of Weissbier dilution. The holy Germans suggest to brew the beer at a much higher gravity to coax more clovey-bananesque esters (they say ester/gravity equation isn't simply arythmetical, which I may confirm, as a 1.100 wort produces more esters than a double volume of 1.050 wort). Then the super-estery strong beer is diluted at bottling down to the gravity normal for the style and you have a slightly more estery Weissbier.

Returning to the Kveik subject, I don't think the method is appliable for producing less tart lighter Kveik-based beers. One hardly wants a more estery Kveik as kveiky esters are far not as nice as those of Weissbier.

 

[Protos]

Lutra is the one stain that has the lowest tartness but it still has it. I've brewed a normal strength red American with it and it developed the tartness over time. Wasn't a bad beer but a tart one.

That was exactly my experience with Hornindal too (not in its Lutra avatar but as OYL-091): I made a nice Norwegian Farmhouse with it. No tartness, pleasant creaminess-toffyness. In half a year - bang, it's tart, no better than Voss.
Keeping strong traditional Kveiks for longer than a couple weeks is also isn't its intended way of use. The "vikings" brewed them strong and drank them fast (given that the real farmhouse yeast stored on logs in barns contained an entire microbial zoo, Lactobacillus and Escherichia included).

 

[DVCNick]

My experience:
Batch #1: Azacca pale ale at 1.061 OG. Dry Voss packet pitched at 85f, let it run/possibly had to drive it to 100F and held there for 5 days. It looked done in 3. Kegged at 10 days. There was some sort of bad off flavor that stuck around for weeks until it finally mostly dissipated. It might have been "tart".

Batch #2: Fermenting now. Same recipe, same 1.061 OG. Pitched at 68F and just didn't temp control, it ran up into the low 80's on its own in this summer environment with the house in the mid 70's ambient. It's on the way back down now. Total schedule looks like it is going to be very similar to the US05 I would normally use in a beer like this. I haven't tasted it yet, but I think I'm getting the same smells off it that I did the first time. Will have to keg, carb, and taste before making a final judgement.

But... 1) "not having to temp control it" isn't a selling point for me since it is sitting in my temp chamber anyway and all I have to do is hit a button to set it to any temp I want. 2) IF (still TBD) I have to run it cooler to get it clean, and it takes just as long then as other yeast I know I like, speed is then not a selling point.

We'll see how this batch comes out, but if there is even a hint of the off flavor that takes a while to go away, it isn't going to make sense for me to save even 5 days on the front end if it needs more conditioning on the back end.
I'm guessing this will be my last rodeo with it, but time will tell.

 

[Miraculix]

That was exactly my experience with Hornindal too (not in its Lutra avatar but as OYL-091): I made a nice Norwegian Farmhouse with it. No tartness, pleasant creaminess-toffyness. In half a year - bang, it's tart, no better than Voss.
Keeping strong traditional Kveiks for longer than a couple weeks is also isn't its intended way of use. The "vikings" brewed them strong and drank them fast (given that the real farmhouse yeast stored on logs in barns contained an entire microbial zoo, Lactobacillus and Escherichia included).

I'd like to add that the one stronger traditional Rye kveik that I brewed after your recommendation, which was the best Kveik for me so far, totally nice beer, was still very good even after a few months in the bottle. That one was brewed with Voss. The twang was there but it complemented the lower ibu strong beer very well. It was around 20 ibus and with an og of about 1.07, if I remember correctly. Would brew this one again any time and recommend something like this with Kveik in general. Was a very good recomendation.

My experience:
Batch #1: Azacca pale ale at 1.061 OG. Dry Voss packet pitched at 85f, let it run/possibly had to drive it to 100F and held there for 5 days. It looked done in 3. Kegged at 10 days. There was some sort of bad off flavor that stuck around for weeks until it finally mostly dissipated. It might have been "tart".

Batch #2: Fermenting now. Same recipe, same 1.061 OG. Pitched at 68F and just didn't temp control, it ran up into the low 80's on its own in this summer environment with the house in the mid 70's ambient. It's on the way back down now. Total schedule looks like it is going to be very similar to the US05 I would normally use in a beer like this. I haven't tasted it yet, but I think I'm getting the same smells off it that I did the first time. Will have to keg, carb, and taste before making a final judgement.

But... 1) "not having to temp control it" isn't a selling point for me since it is sitting in my temp chamber anyway and all I have to do is hit a button to set it to any temp I want. 2) IF (still TBD) I have to run it cooler to get it clean, and it takes just as long then as other yeast I know I like, speed is then not a selling point.

We'll see how this batch comes out, but if there is even a hint of the off flavor that takes a while to go away, it isn't going to make sense for me to save even 5 days on the front end if it needs more conditioning on the back end.
I'm guessing this will be my last rodeo with it, but time will tell.

Tartness is not a real flavour. Tartness is mildly sour. What you are describing might be the particular Voss flavour which some describe as "orange", which I do not agree with. But every palate is certainly different.

 

[Protos]

I'd like to add that the one stronger traditional Rye kveik that I brewed after your recommendation, which was the best Kveik for me so far, totally nice beer, was still very good even after a few months in the bottle.

I think the secret ingredients in that Rongoteus beer ("a Finnish Rye Dubbel") were lower IBUs, as you noticed, and also a healthy dose of Rye supplemented by Black Malt (Black Rye Malt in my case). The beer came out so chewy and strong-flavoured that the Voss twang was well-balanced. Also, at 1.070 OG and 7% ABV it was in the traditional strength range for Nordic Farmhouse Ale, which well compensates any kveiky tanginess. Yes, it didn't change its flavour with time (it seems Voss doesn't age into more tartness, unlike Hornindal).
An excellently designed beer recipe by Mika Laitinen, I'll rebrew it some day too.

 

[Ninoid]

I like beer without any overpowering character. I like to feel everything, both alcohol strength, bitterness, sour and creaminess, but that everything is balanced. Such a beer is probably easiest to get with US-05, but since I don't have the conditions to regulate the fermentation temperature, Kveik would be ideal for me because it has a very wide temperature range. However, so far I have only been able to get Voss Kveik dry yeast and I have not been able to get a balanced beer with it due to the predominant tartness. Currently, I have found a replacement in Belle Saison yeast (I have tried other Saison dry yeasts, but I am satisfied only with this one) which also has a very wide temperature range and does not have any predominant characteristic.

 

[Miraculix]

I like beer without any overpowering character. I like to feel everything, both alcohol strength, bitterness, sour and creaminess, but that everything is balanced. Such a beer is probably easiest to get with US-05, but since I don't have the conditions to regulate the fermentation temperature, Kveik would be ideal for me because it has a very wide temperature range. However, so far I have only been able to get Voss Kveik dry yeast and I have not been able to get a balanced beer with it due to the predominant tartness. Currently, I have found a replacement in Belle Saison yeast (I have tried other Saison dry yeasts, but I am satisfied only with this one) which also has a very wide temperature range and does not have any predominant characteristic.

Try to brew the Voss kveik beer I'm talking about above. That beer is the definition of well balanced. It is a bit stronger though, but really worth it. @Protos would you mind sharing the link to the recipe again please?

 

[Ninoid]

Try to brew the Voss kveik beer I'm talking about above. That beer is the definition of well balanced. It is a bit stronger though, but really worth it. @Protos would you mind sharing the link to the recipe again please?

Rye Dubbel?

 

[Miraculix]

Rye Dubbel?

Found it!

https://www.brewingnordic.com/new-nordic-beer/brewing-with-rye/
The first beer on the list.

 

[Ninoid]

I don't know exactly which Kveik the recipe refers to because only Voss is available to me, and it has, at least according to what I've read here, the strongest tartness. I can't get chocolate rye malt, so I would have to replace it with chocolate barley malt.

 

[Protos]

Any Kveik yeast goes for this recipe. In this recipe, the tartness of Voss is well counterbalanced by Rye, Black Malt and Alcohol.
One of the few Voss-fermented beers I'm happy with.

 

[Sipina]

I do not understand what is the acidity being reported about voss kveik fermentation; however I do get a very big orange note when fermented around 40° celsius. I did like it in my pale ale style recipe brewed recently.

These traditional nordic farmhouse ales however seem much more interesting than a pale ale. Thanks for sharing these ideas and recipes; surely I will try out some of those since I like the simplicity of working with voss kveik; and having the benefit of very easily making complex/interesting beers is a no brainer!

 

[Miraculix]

I don't know exactly which Kveik the recipe refers to because only Voss is available to me, and it has, at least according to what I've read here, the strongest tartness. I can't get chocolate rye malt, so I would have to replace it with chocolate barley malt.

I've also brewed it with Voss and voss was fitting really well. The replacement chocolate should be fine.