Don't Squeeze the Sparge.. Why?

[KettleCorn]

Don't Squeeze the Sparge.. Why not?

I have read twice now NOT to squeeze the grain bag while Sparging. We squeeze the piss out of it ... Is this really bad? Why?

 

[onthekeg]

I have never done it as I have never done a PM brew, but I believe it to be due to tannin extraction. I also believe it to be an internet fallacy. If it doesn't affect the brew, do it!

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Because scalding your hands really sucks.

 

[borden]

I think 90% of the people on HBT will tell you that squeezing is NOT a problem. I squeeze all the time, and it's never caused issues with tannins. Crazy pH levels or sparging at too high of a temperature would be much more significant contributors.

You will also get a lot of jokes about squeezing your sack. Brace yourself!

 

[KettleCorn]

You will also get a lot of jokes about squeezing your sack. Brace yourself!

Classic!!! Made me actually LOL....

thanks for the feedback...

 

[KettleCorn]

Because scalding your hands really sucks.

Agreed. We use two Kettle Lids as symbols and NOW I wear oven mits to hold them and we "squeeze the sack" between them and get the extra out.

three squeezes. first off the mash, then we sparge twice.
It really ups the Eff. %.. or at least we think we do. :rockin:

We keep good temps so we dont get the tannin and keep the starch conversion all hunky dorry... So, until I hear of a "side effect", I'll keep up the Pectorial Workout.

 

[broadbill]

Agreed. We use two Kettle Lids as symbols and NOW I wear oven mits to hold them and we "squeeze the sack" between them and get the extra out.

What do your kettle lids represent?

 

[Revvy]

I give a thorough explanation about how there's no reason not to squeez REGARDLESS of whether it's extract with grains or BIAB, here.

It's one of those things that folks have repeated rote without understanding AND is much more complicated or difficult to do than most new brewers who repeat that "don't squeeze the bag or else you'll extract tannins" nonsense.

 

[HopKeller]

I'm a sack squeezer, and proud of it.

 

[BrettFitz]

Would it be poor form of me to invite my neighbor over just to squeeze my sack? I think if I ask nicely she probably would.

The gent I buy my supplies from prints a "how to brew" cheat sheet, and gives a brewing class every week, with "Don't squeeze the bag!" underlined and bolded in his instructions. So thus far I've lifted that sucker outta the water like it was made out of wet toilet papar and filled with skunk oil. He's adamant enough that I never even thought to question that statement. Tonight when I brew I'm squeezin', dammit!

edit* Threads like this are exactly why I always read at least 2 new threads from start to finish each and every day on this site. Always something to learn. Thanks all-

 

[Revvy]

The gent I buy my supplies from prints a "how to brew" cheat sheet, and gives a brewing class every week, with "Don't squeeze the bag!" underlined and bolded in his instructions.

Because he, like so many just chose to repeat and believe "what he heard" like it was gospel, without bothering to think about it, or even bothering to do any deeper research into the reasons why...OR into wondering why there seems to be no logic where it's concerned. In biab it's recommended to squeeze, yet so many beginners extract with grain instructions repeat the don't squeeze mantra.

 

[ludomonster]

I don't squeeze, but I do hang the bag over a pot to let excess wort drain while heating up the rest of the wort. Eventually, it goes into the boil.

 

[KettleCorn]

Would it be poor form of me to invite my neighbor over just to squeeze my sack? I think if I ask nicely she probably would.

The gent I buy my supplies from prints a "how to brew" cheat sheet, and gives a brewing class every week, with "Don't squeeze the bag!" underlined and bolded in his instructions. So thus far I've lifted that sucker outta the water like it was made out of wet toilet papar and filled with skunk oil. He's adamant enough that I never even thought to question that statement. Tonight when I brew I'm squeezin', dammit!

edit* Threads like this are exactly why I always read at least 2 new threads from start to finish each and every day on this site. Always something to learn. Thanks all-

Good luck with your neighbor - hope that works out for you

On the edit*:
Thanks man!

 

[sidepart]

As I understood it, you might extract bitter tannins from the grain if you squeeze the **** out of the bag. Ever brewed tea? Same principle. You squeeze the **** out of a tea bag, you get bitter tea. I don't really know if that same concept applies to grain from a scientific standpoint, but it makes logical sense to me. With all-grain you're also trying to avoid those tannins, so they do exist.

That said, I only apply gentle pressure to my sack so it doesn't drip all over the place.

 

[grem135]

That said, I only apply gentle pressure to my sack so it doesn't drip all over the place.

It is always better to lightly squeeze and carress your sack

 

[kingwood-kid]

After the grain has been crushed properly, it's pretty much all surface area; the mash water will quickly reach every part ofit. An hour of soaking in hot water will have dissolved just about anything that will dissolve at those temps. Many pro breweries mill their grain to the consistency of flour and then use machines to press down on it to squeeze out every last drop of wort. BIAB or mash tun, you can do something similar at home.

 

[inturnldemize]

What I do to avoid squeezing, is running hot water over the spents grains. This allows me to get more flavor and maltiness from them. I just never squeezed because I heard it wasn't recommened. It's just one of those things I never questioned but i'm sure it doesn't make a noticeable difference in the final product.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I always "squeeze the sack" like it owes me money. As long as pH is where it should be, tannins won't be an issue.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I have the advantage of having read many threads on this subject long before I did my first AG. Assuming the collective hive mind of Home Brew Talk knows more than any one person or organization, I have determined that it is appropriate to squeeze the sack like it owes me money. In practice the grains are very hot and its tough not to burn your hands. I lift the bag, place a new, clean BBQ grill over the pot, and place a small rubbermaid tote bag on it with a hole cut in the bottom. The grains go in the tote and the weight of the grains squeeze themselves. I was impressed at how much color comes out of the grains as they drain that way.

 

[Revvy]

As I understood it, you might extract bitter tannins from the grain if you squeeze the **** out of the bag.

Did you read what I linked?

You can only extract tannins by squeezing a bag, IF you produced tannins to begin with. Squeezing the bag doesn't produce the tannins in the grain. It only releases them if they were there. And they are only produced in a narrow range of situations- i.e. the right (or wrong I should say) combination of PH and Heat....otherwise there's no tannins to be released.

We're not making tea, we're making beer. We're not brewing with tea which has a high level of tannins to begin with. We're using grain, and there's little if any natural tannins there to begin with....

The old tea bag analogy has been long shot down..... This discussion is mostly about how people like you misunderstand who tannins get produced, and repeat what you posted.....

 

[sidepart]

Did you read what I linked?

You can only extract tannins by squeezing a bag, IF you produced tannins to begin with. Squeezing the bag doesn't produce the tannins in the grain. It only releases them if they were there. And they are only produced in a narrow range of situations- i.e. the right (or wrong I should say) combination of PH and Heat....otherwise there's no tannins to be released.

We're not making tea, we're making beer. We're not brewing with tea which has a high level of tannins to begin with. We're using grain, and there's little if any natural tannins there to begin with....

The old tea bag analogy has been long shot down..... This discussion is mostly about how people like you misunderstand who tannins get produced, and repeat what you posted.....

Thank you for educating me, I freely admitted the following:

I don't really know if that same concept applies to grain from a scientific standpoint, but it makes logical sense to me.

Do correct me or others if there's misinformation or if the proper understanding isn't there.

 

[KettleCorn]

This thread is a blast to read!!!!
Thanks.

I'll continue to be a Sac Squeezer and dish it out like it owes me money!

Fun!

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Heh, sack squeezing.... great thread!

Revvy's got it, pH and/or temp have temp have to be ideal for tannins to be present in the mash. If they're there, they're there, if they're not, they're not..... No matter how hard you squeeze your sack.

 

[jonmohno]

Ya go blind if yas squeeze you sack :cross:

 

[sidepart]

Heh, sack squeezing.... great thread!

Revvy's got it, pH and/or temp have temp have to be ideal for tannins to be present in the mash. If they're there, they're there, if they're not, they're not..... No matter how hard you squeeze your sack.

So from now on, I'm going to squeeze my sack in a gentle yet FORCEFUL manner.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

So from now on, I'm going to squeeze my sack in a gentle yet FORCEFUL manner.

That'll do it! Just make sure you wash your hands afterwards, they'll get all sticky!

Honestly, the one time I've had detectable tannin flavors/aromas in a beer was a pH issue. I squeeze as much wort out of the grains as I can, don't have problems. Just keep temps and pH in the proper range and you'll be good.

 

[rodwha]

"...three squeezes..."
Haven't you heard that, much like 3 shakes, you're playing with it?!?!
Be gentle fellows!

 

[YeastHerder]

Would it be poor form of me to invite my neighbor over just to squeeze my sack? I think if I ask nicely she probably would.

Only if you don't offer her a couple drinks first!

 

[grem135]

Only if you don't offer her a couple drinks first!

Now where is the fun in that?

 

[beerloaf]

Squeeze it like it owes you money!

beerloaf

 

[KettleCorn]

Nordeaster: I'm not saying we should kill all the stupid people, but let's remove all the warning signs and see how it plays out.

Love it!!!!

Honestly, the one time I've had detectable tannin flavors/aromas in a beer was a pH issue. I squeeze as much wort out of the grains as I can, don't have problems. Just keep temps and pH in the proper range and you'll be good.

That was may main concern... Thanks

SQUUUUEEEEEEEZE!!!!