Do you treat water and check pH?

[Tbagger]

I make adjustments to my tap water. I got a report from ward labs and it was super soft so I use brunwater to find the adjustments for the profile I am shooting for. I haven't been checking the PH, I just trust the calculations. I will probably get a PH meter eventually but for now I'm happy with my system.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm guessing this thread is an offshoot to a discussion the OP and I had in another thread. I think the poll results posted above by RPh_Guy probably answers the OPs question. I'm not sure the brewing science forum is the best place to poll because it's mostly visited by people who are more advanced in their brewing efforts. You're probably missing most of the people who you'd like to hear from.

I brew with RO water, I use salts to adjust my profile to get the result I want in each beer...emphasize hops in an IPA, make big stouts smoother and less harsh, etc. I use Bru'n Water to calculate the additions, including acidulated malt or acid for pH in lighter beers and I have a pH meter to verify the calculations. For the most part, Bru'n Water has been extremely close.

Some styles almost mandate it. I can't fathom brewing a kettle sour and not measuring pH and, at a bare minimum, pre-acidifying the wort.

In general, I just don't see the point in putting the work into brewing a batch of beer and not spending an extra 10 minutes and 50 cents or whatever to push it over the top, but the beauty of home brewing is that everyone can do what they want and put in the level of effort that yields the results their happy with.

I also realize I'm obsessive. I won a national championship in sailing because I obsess over every detail and leave no stone unturned in my pursuit of the best result. I also spend a lot of time studying and learning about my hobbies. When I first started brewing, I was reading and studying about brewing for 20-30 hours a week. It consumed a huge part of my free time for over a year. I still spend 5-10 hours a week reading and learning about the process. It's just my nature to put maximum effort into my endeavors (with shopping being an exception...I'm a " it's good enough" level of shopper).

 

[kh54s10]

Hwk-I-St8, yes it is.
I have conceded that my poll was poorly worded. I guess I put it in the wrong forum also. I do think that to make your good beers the best that they can be water corrections and pH are important. I however wonder when the first thing that is mentioned in a ton of posts is that you need to amend your water. This, before discussing any other problem that might have been the cause. I was also wondering how many brewers don't amend their water and how many municipalities have water suitable for brewing. From a lot of you it would seem that it is impossible to brew good beer with tap water and no amendments.

I guess I am reacting to my perception that a vehemence seems to come across - that in order to brew good beer you must amend your water.

From above I guess I did get what I was looking for. Water: Tap water filtered or unfiltered = 64% Treatment I include; none at 30%, standard amount at 8% since they are not really analyzing anything for a total 38%

It seems to me that more people, than suggested in posts here, are just using tap water rather than other options. And that a significant amount of home brewers do not amend their water. Though, the percentage is lower than I expected. There are also a number that make a static amendment and that is pretty much the same as no amending.

 

[Big Monk]

I do think that to make your good beers the best the concepts of water corrections and pH are important.

(Excuse my edits to your text above. I think it makes the statement clearer)

I think that, more important than the actual water itself and how you amend it, is that you are aware of how those things impact your beer.

I was also wondering how many brewers don't amend their water and how many municipalities have water suitable for brewing. From a lot of you it would seem that it is impossible to brew good beer with tap water and no amendments.

In the last few weeks I have been entertaining using my tap water for brewing:

Ca = 35.90
Mg = 9.33
Na = 21.14
SO4 = 22.87
Cl = 30.64
Alkalinity (as CaCO3) = 104.40

After eliminating the Alkalinity and with a modest 8% boil-off, my finished profile looks like this:

Ca = 38.16
Mg = 9.92
Na = 22.47
SO4 = 24.31
Cl = 32.57

No amendments other than accounting for boil-off.

I do think there is a natural bias, especially in advanced brewers to just use RO because it gives more control. I historically use distilled water but after reviewing my tap water, i'd say that simply carbon filtering it and using as is is more than sufficient.

 

[fendersrule]

I brew with tap water...no RO or anything. I've always get "kudos" whenever I hand out my beers, even to people that have been brewing for many years. I haven't had one person mention anything wrong with them, although I really welcome more feedback than I've been given.

My water is a little hard. It tastes good. My kettles look as clear as the clearest ocean after I put tap water in them. My beers taste really good...my IPA tastes like IPAs, my Pale Ales tastes like pale ales, and my porter tasted like a porter.

I just switched to BIAB and with a fine crush, I get 70% efficiency. That's good efficiency. I'm sure I can get another 10% if I look into my water next, but 70% is fine and dandy.

With all that said, I think the basic saying of "if it tastes good, you can brew with it" is true.

With that also said, once you upgrade and continue to improve your equipment/process, water is the next ting I'd like to improve upon. It's pretty expensive, though....you need a $100 Ph meter, you need $200 to draw a sample and send it in, and then you need to spend what appears to be a serious amount of hours learning the science. I'll go there eventually, but point being, my beers with tap water tastes good. I entered two of them in the local competition actually, so we'll see how they do!

 

[Yooper]

Sorry, this poll is already useless since you HAVE to make adjustments if you use RO or distilled water.

Says who? You don't HAVE to do anything, just as you don't have to do anything with tap water, unless you want to. There isn't any blanket rule that says you don't have to mess with your tap water, but you do with RO water. In fact, the reverse is true.

Plain RO water will make pretty good beer in almost all cases, while my tap water will not.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I bought a pH meter a while back. I haven't tried using it yet for fear I will screw up the calibration, storage, or measurement and end up making bad acid additions to my mash. Its like Dumbo's feather in reverse; if I don't use it I won't need to. Also, I feel it has already improved my beer through placebo effect and sometimes I just wave it at my kettle like a wand.

Slightly further OT, one of my roommates in college used to fish his toast out of the toaster with a fork, blissfully unaware of the hazard posed by the glowing nichrome. I informed him of the danger, which he refused to believe until a few days later...ZZAPP! Thoroughly convinced that ignorance of such things was some sort of force field against danger, he became royally pissed at me for popping the bubble. IIRC he was Scottish and also applied whisky topically for his dandruff.

In summary: only do the things you feel you need to do, or that make you feel like you've done your best, and nothing more.

 

[kh54s10]

Says who? You don't HAVE to do anything, just as you don't have to do anything with tap water, unless you want to. There isn't any blanket rule that says you don't have to mess with your tap water, but you do with RO water. In fact, the reverse is true.

Plain RO water will make pretty good beer in almost all cases, while my tap water will not.

Still learning, I assumed that since RO strips most of the minerals, that you really did need to make additions.. And that tap water might not depending on what is in it.

But the Poll still doesn't seem to be reality. 73% at this time insist you HAVE to make water corrections.

 

[Rodent]

unless somebody has found a way to stuff the ballot box, that response is reality based on the options you have given us to choose from.


FWIW I would have voted for "YES, always, because personal experience has proven it makes for better beers all other things being equal; adjustments are not required to make good drinkable beer" since adjusting water is not REQUIRED to (i.e. have to) make beer

 

[kh54s10]

unless somebody has found a way to stuff the ballot box, that response is reality based on the options you have given us to choose from.


FWIW I would have voted for "YES, always, because personal experience has proven it makes for better beers all other things being equal; adjustments are not required to make good drinkable beer" since adjusting water is not REQUIRED to (i.e. have to) make beer

You are inserting the notion of making the beer better. That was not in the hypothesis. It was about whether you have to make adjustments.

 

[Rodent]

You are inserting the notion of making the beer better. That was not in the hypothesis. It was about whether you have to make adjustments.

It is your second poll option that introduces 'better', not me as I didn't author or modify the poll

There is a gap between the options "Yes, you have to" and "Sometimes, it may make my beer better" (my emphasis in both cases) In your hunt for confirmation of your opinion that "the majority of brewers make no adjustments", you've left off a significant option

I don't HAVE TO adjust my water, but I ALWAYS do because it has been proven to make my beer better. No fence walking that it MAY HAVE made my beer better - it's been proven that it DOES make my beer better all else being equal

 

[Jayjay1976]

You are inserting the notion of making the beer better. That was not in the hypothesis. It was about whether you have to make adjustments.

Well, since we're splittin' hairs, you don't have to use malt, hops, or yeast it just depends on your definition of "drinkable" and "beer".

 

[Still Brewn]

View attachment 620573

http://brulosophy.com/2018/11/22/2018-general-homebrewer-survey-results/

Hope this helps.

Survey results are obviously biased toward the practices of people who the survey reaches and who takes the time to respond.

In the last chart is "big beer" referring to BMC big beer or high ABV beer?

 

[Yooper]

You absolutely never HAVE to make adjustments.

I brewed with tap water (only) for a long, long time, probably 8 or 10 years, and still use it for all of my winemaking.

However, I made fabulous dark beers like stouts, while my helles was a bit harsh. That's when I started making adjustments, and got my water report. My water tastes great, but it is very high in alkalinity. I still make stouts with 100% tap water, but without beer styles I may dilute with RO, or for light lagers use 100% RO water with a few additions.

 

[bleme]

I've added gypsum or acidulated malt when a recipe calls for it, but I don't treat my water in general.

 

[fendersrule]

Depends on your tap water. If it tastes good, you don't have to make adjustments to make good beer.

If it tastes like ass, then you probably have to.

Can you make award-winner beers on good tasting tap water without any treatments? That's the crux of the question.

 

[kh54s10]

It is your second poll option that introduces 'better', not me as I didn't author or modify the poll

There is a gap between the options "Yes, you have to" and "Sometimes, it may make my beer better" (my emphasis in both cases) In your hunt for confirmation of your opinion that "the majority of brewers make no adjustments", you've left off a significant option. Leaving that out was intentional - see below.

I don't HAVE TO adjust my water, but I ALWAYS do because it has been proven to make my beer better. No fence walking that it MAY HAVE made my beer better - it's been proven that it DOES make my beer better all else being equal

As I noted very quickly, after only a couple of replies. The poll is flawed. It was worded very badly and is giving results unintended. Kind of like a political poll, but those are worded to GET the intended results. I was not trying exclude those that use adjustments to make the beers better and to find those that don't adjust as opposed to those who think you must adjust.

Again, the poll doesn't work, the reply with the graph told me what I wanted to know. I would not have even attempted the poll if I had seen that article first.

 

[Jayjay1976]

...If it tastes like ass, then you probably have to.

Unless ass-beer is your goal.

 

[Rodent]

Unless ass-beer is your goal.

somebody's brewing a 'brown ale'?

 

[Jayjay1976]

somebody's brewing a 'brown ale'?

Where's ol' smelly mell when we need him?!

 

[RPh_Guy]

In the last chart is "big beer" referring to BMC big beer or high ABV beer?

BMC

 

[fendersrule]

Here's my Boo Koo Clone IPA with untreated tap water that tastes good.

No whirlflock.

 

[RPh_Guy]

No one is saying that unadjusted water automatically makes bad beer.

 

[day_trippr]

That was not actually baked into the poll question...

Cheers!

 

[fendersrule]

I wonder if people that live in Flint Michigan are the only ones saying “must”.

 

[rmyurick]

If I'm making a Porter or pale ale, 1 tsp. for 5 gal. works well. I made a Stout which had issues (finished high)--should have at least added the gypsum for the calcium, but probably would have benefited from a touch of bicarbonate or lime.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Home Brew mobile app

 

[jcom87]

I am just starting to dabble in water chemistry. I think John Palmer says it best. Think of your beer as tomato sauce. You can get plain, off the shelf tomato sauce from the store and it will be just fine. On the opposite end, you could go to a fancy restaurant and get an incredibly acidic sauce, which is fine as well. But to really dial in that sauce you need to make some additions.

So yes, your beer will be just fine without water additions, but a few adjustments here and there can make it truly exceptional.

 

[Oude Brouwer]

Yes. Always, since I began home brewing a couple of years ago. For beers requiring more minerals in the water profile, I add salts to reach desirable levels. For those light beers and Neipas I use RO water and adjust the profile as needed.

 

[bleme]

I wonder if people that live in Flint Michigan are the only ones saying “must”.

I've seen a lot of water reports posted on here that look more solid than liquid. The next town over from me has so much sulphur in their water, it smells like rotten eggs every time you run the tap. You can't even order a soda in a restaurant there because the ice fouls the whole drink! The town I grew up in had such crumby water that after you flushed the toilet, you still couldn't see the bottom of the bowl! If you have good water, count yourself lucky!

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

While I don't have to I do adjust my brewing water and check each recipe's mash pH. To me, it's part of the fun of brewing beer.