Different yeast or oxidation

[Tonyd9448]

Hello everyone. This is my 6th or 7th batch of beer, and for this one I decided to split my 5 gallon recipe into two fermenters and pitch different yeasts. One with omega fruit punch, and one with their hornindal. These were identical up until the yeast, and now the one with the hornindal looks much darker than the other. Any idea why that would be? I did shake the hornindal one ~20 hours after pitching the yeast because it didn't seem very active. Did I ruin this batch or is it possible that the different yeasts gave my beer this different of color? It's an imperial IPA recipe I got from northern Brewer.

 

[Tonyd9448]

Here are the specs on the yeasts

 

[Tonyd9448]

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/cascade-mountains-west-coast-imperial-ipa-all-grain-kit

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome to HBT!

Beer always looks darker in larger volumes, such as fermenters.
You may have inadvertently oxidized the Kveik inoculated beer somewhat by shaking it after 20 hours. But if fermentation hadn't set in yet, it's not very likely that would happen. For high gravity beer (such as yours, the OG is expected to be 1.086) it's even recommended to re-oxygenate (or re-aerate) a 2nd time, around 12-18 hours after the initial pitch and oxygenation, but has to be done before active fermentation has started.

Please leave the lids on until ready to package. You don't want to lose the CO2-rich atmosphere in the headspace replaced with air, which would happen quickly when opening. You need to prevent (potential) oxidation at any cost.

Also leave the beer in these fermenters until ready to package, don't use secondaries.

Looks like you still need to dry hop these. When you do, leave the lid on and add the pellets through the airlock hole. For that, sanitize the lid around the airlock, pull the airlock. Drop pellets through hole quickly, then resanitize and replace the airlock.

 

[Tonyd9448]

Welcome to HBT!

Beer always looks darker in larger volumes, such as fermenters.
You may have inadvertently oxidized the Kveik inoculated beer somewhat by shaking it after 20 hours. But if fermentation hadn't set in yet, it's not very likely that would happen. For high gravity beer (such as yours, the OG is expected to be 1.086) it's even recommended to re-oxygenate (or re-aerate) a 2nd time, around 12-18 hours after the initial pitch and oxygenation, but has to be done before active fermentation has started.

Please leave the lids on until ready to package. You don't want to lose the CO2-rich atmosphere in the headspace replaced with air, which would happen quickly when opening. You need to prevent (potential) oxidation at any cost.

Also leave the beer in these fermenters until ready to package, don't use secondaries.

Looks like you still need to dry hop these. When you do, leave the lid on and add the pellets through the airlock hole. For that, sanitize the lid around the airlock, pull the airlock. Drop pellets through hole quickly, then resanitize and replace the airlock.

Thanks for the info - definitely a good tip dry hopping through the air lock.

I get that the beer will look darker in the bucket vs in a glass once it's all done, but what's throwing me off is the stark color difference in the two buckets right now - both coming from the same batch.

Aside from flavor, there's no way to check for oxidation, right? And I guess at this point I'll just finish the beer since I was just planning on kegging both of these, it's not a lot of extra work.

 

[marc1]

The lighter one might have more yeast suspended in it than the darker one. Kveik ferments fast, maybe it is done and dropped out while the fruit punch is still floating around.

 

[IslandLizard]

I get that the beer will look darker in the bucket vs in a glass once it's all done,

It's not the bucket vs. glass, it's the optical density of looking through 1 foot width of beer compared the 2 inches in a drinking glass, that makes it appear so much darker.

 

[IslandLizard]

The lighter one might have more yeast suspended in it than the darker one. Kveik ferments fast, maybe it is done and dropped out while the fruit punch is still in floating around.

That's exactly what I was referring to before, too, the scattering due to suspended particles (yeast and trub) makes it appear much lighter.

Hornindal is a fast fermenting yeast, especially at higher temps, and likely also a much better flocculator than Fruit Punch.

Fruit Punch may not be totally done, depending on how long it's been fermenting and at what temps.

 

[Tonyd9448]

The cosmic punch does appear to be fermenting still. I have a Tilt in that one and it's still working its way down. It started at 1.083 on the Tilt and was at 1.024 last night, and is now reading 1.022. I was getting higher SG readings on my refractometer (1.091 consistently), so I'm not sure which SG is more accurate, but with the Tilt it's at least showing that it's still dropping.

 

[Tonyd9448]

You guys see any risk in moving the Tilt to the other one to see how it reads? Or do you think it's not worth the risk of opening it up and losing the CO2 in that bucket? I've never had two fermenting at the same time, so never needed two Tilts before...

 

[IslandLizard]

You guys see any risk in moving the Tilt to the other one to see how it reads? Or do you think it's not worth the risk of opening it up and losing the CO2 in that bucket? I've never had two fermenting at the same time, so never needed two Tilts before...

Yes, a huge risk, oxidation being the main one, infection risk being 2nd.
Leave the lids on. Hoppier beers especially need to be protected from any oxygen exposure once fermentation has started.

Since the Hornindal looks pretty much clear from what it appears, it's likely done. We've fermented Pale Ales with Hornindal within 3 days, from grain to glass at 85-90F!

You could take a sample if you really must, and I would recommend using a suck-siphon approach rather than opening lids and a using a wine thief.

 

[IslandLizard]

I meant to ask before, do you have CO2 available, a tank of it, that is?

 

[Tonyd9448]

Copy on the above, I'll leave the Tilt where it's at.

Yes, I have a tank of CO2 in the garage for when I keg it.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yes, I have a tank of CO2 in the garage for when I keg it.

A good!
Have you been using methods to transfer/keg beer, without exposing it to air (O2), or at least minimize it? If not, you've got some reading to do.

 

[marc1]

The cosmic punch does appear to be fermenting still. I have a Tilt in that one and it's still working its way down. It started at 1.083 on the Tilt and was at 1.024 last night, and is now reading 1.022. I was getting higher SG readings on my refractometer (1.091 consistently), so I'm not sure which SG is more accurate, but with the Tilt it's at least showing that it's still dropping.

Refractometers don't measure accurately when there is alcohol in the sample. You need to apply a correction formula.

 

[Tonyd9448]

A good!
Have you been using methods to transfer/keg beer, without exposing it to air (O2), or at least minimize it? If not, you've got some reading to do.

I think I've been doing it semi-right. On the last IPA I brewed I was transferring from the spigot on the bucket into the OUT valve on my keg (after keg was purged) and releasing the pressure with the pressure release valve as the keg was filling up. I ran into an issue where I didn't have enough force from my bucket to push the beer into the keg, so mid way through I ended up switching to a siphon and just siphoning straight into the keg avoiding splashes. I won't be able to do that on this batch as I'm not transferring to a secondary fermenter, and the trub is higher than the level of my spigot. I'll read around though and see what options I have, because I did run into oxidation issues with my last batch, although I'm pretty sure that came from my canning process as only a handful of the cans were impacted.

 

[Tonyd9448]

Refractometers don't measure accurately when there is alcohol in the sample. You need to apply a correction formula.

yeah, this was before the yeast was pitched. I pulled some wort before and after my 2 lbs of sugar were added, and before the yeast was pitched. After the sugar but before the yeast I was getting 1.091 on my refractometer (calibrated with distilled water) but once I dropped my Tilt in there, it was only reading 1.083.

 

[marc1]

I think I've been doing it semi-right. On the last IPA I brewed I was transferring from the spigot on the bucket into the OUT valve on my keg (after keg was purged) and releasing the pressure with the pressure release valve as the keg was filling up. I ran into an issue where I didn't have enough force from my bucket to push the beer into the keg, so mid way through I ended up switching to a siphon and just siphoning straight into the keg avoiding splashes. I won't be able to do that on this batch as I'm not transferring to a secondary fermenter, and the trub is higher than the level of my spigot. I'll read around though and see what options I have, because I did run into oxidation issues with my last batch, although I'm pretty sure that came from my canning process as only a handful of the cans were impacted.

A couple few days before kegging, you could try propping up the fermenter under the spigot so the trub drops away from it.

If your fermenter is above the keg, it shouldn't stop flowing. You could try leaving the PRV open while it is filling to make sure it keeps going. With it being a very small opening, and CO2 from inside constantly flowing out as it fills, it doesn't seem like a big oxidation risk to me. Just close it when you are done.

 

[IslandLizard]

You could dry hop these 2 in kegs, since they're easier to purge and keep air out.
With the right prep work, either serve from the kegs directly, or transfer the beer to a serving keg, without opening kegs, if possible.

 

[Tonyd9448]

I feel like I might have ruined this batch of beer - everything I'm reading says I should have used a yeast started since it was a higher gravity beer. This is my first batch adding corn sugar but thought it would have been fine since I split the batch into two - thinking the smaller batch size (3 gallons vs 6 gallons) would be fine for one packet of yeast each... I've always had fermentation finish within the first 3-4 days, and this one is going on 7 days and still working.

 

[marc1]

I feel like I might have ruined this batch of beer - everything I'm reading says I should have used a yeast started since it was a higher gravity beer. This is my first batch adding corn sugar but thought it would have been fine since I split the batch into two - thinking the smaller batch size (3 gallons vs 6 gallons) would be fine for one packet of yeast each... I've always had fermentation finish within the first 3-4 days, and this one is going on 7 days and still working.

You're overthinking negative things before the beer is even done. The fruit punch one is taking a little longer but it is probably fine. Were the ones that always finished in 3-4 days high gravity? Give it some more time and RDWHAHB.

 

[Tonyd9448]

You could dry hop these 2 in kegs, since they're easier to purge and keep air out.
With the right prep work, either serve from the kegs directly, or transfer the beer to a serving keg, without opening kegs, if possible.

I think for this one since I don't have 4 kegs, I'm going to dry hop through the airlock as you suggested, and then try and get a racking cane through the airlock and transfer into my kegs that way

 

[Tonyd9448]

You're overthinking negative things before the beer is even done. The fruit punch one is taking a little longer but it is probably fine. Were the ones that always finished in 3-4 days high gravity? Give it some more time and RDWHAHB.

The other ones that finished quicker weren't this high in gravity. the last IPA I made started at 1.065 and got down to 1.011. This one doesn't appear to be going that low...

 

[IslandLizard]

I feel like I might have ruined this batch of beer [...]

Not necessarily...
The Hornindal may well be done/finished out. You could take a suck siphon sample through the airlock and check Final Gravity with a hydrometer.

The Omega is a 150 billion cell pitch straight from the pack. Maybe a bit skimpy on pitch rate, but their yeast is darn good. As long as it was fresh and had not been frozen, overheated, or was otherwise compromised.
She's at 1.024 and still going you said, so that a good sign. Since she's mostly finished, keep her a little warmer , low 70s, to help her finish out. And prevent temp drops at this point. If you can't keep her at a slightly higher temp for a few (3-7) days, constantly, better keep her at the lower temps. Temp drops can be detrimental at this point.

 

[IslandLizard]

try and get a racking cane through the airlock

That should work, that's similar to what I usually do.

Since you can't have your inverter tippy on the racking cane (it won't fit through the airlock hole), start siphoning from the middle level of the beer, about halfway between the beer surface and the top of the trub, and slowly lower the cane as the beer level drops, to keep her submerged. You can also tilt the bucket (stick a rolled up towel underneath) toward the side where the cane is, to keep the siphoning well as deep as possible.

As soon as you see yeast or trub being sucked up, pull the liquid QD off the keg to stop the transfer.
In case like that, it's sometimes good to have an extra set of hands around to help.

 

[Tonyd9448]

Not necessarily...
The Hornindal may well be done/finished out. You could take a suck siphon sample through the airlock and check Final Gravity with a hydrometer.

The Omega is a 150 billion cell pitch straight from the pack. Maybe a bit skimpy on pitch rate, but their yeast is darn good. As long as it was fresh and had not been frozen, overheated, or was otherwise compromised.
She's at 1.024 and still going you said, so that a good sign. Since she's mostly finished, keep her a little warmer , low 70s, to help her finish out. And prevent temp drops at this point. If you can't keep her at a slightly higher temp for a few (3-7) days, constantly, better keep her at the lower temps. Temp drops can be detrimental at this point.

Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can get a good sample through the airlock and check where it's at. As for the other one, I'll just wait and see where it stops at. I'm in S FL so keeping it warm isn't much of a struggle. The TILT is reading 71-72 degrees right now, so right where you're suggesting. Worth noting, the cosmic punch was a little swolen when I got it in the mail - everything I saw online said that it was probably just from some residual fermentables and that it was probably fine... we'll find out.

 

[Tonyd9448]

 

[Beermeister32]

Too soon to tell. Omega mentions both have a high flocculation rate, maybe one is just finishing up faster than the other making it appear darker.

 

[Bobby_M]

What was the date on the yeast packs. That's what matters most in determining whether you had enough yeast. A relatively fresh pack is good for 3 gallons at 1.080. If it was more than 2 months old, less so.

 

[Tonyd9448]

I wanted to post an update in here and say thank you all for the help. It appears (at least for right now) that the yeasts were just behaving differently. Here's a pic of the colors now - this is immediately after moving from fermenter to keg (pulled some for samples). The one on the left is the cosmic punch, and might have a little more trub/sediment than the one on the right... my siphon hit the trub for a second while transferring into the test container. Either way, I don't think the hornindal (one on the right below) is oxygenated.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Either way, I don't think the hornindal (one on the right below) is oxygenated.

I would tend to agree.

There appear to be a number of reflected objects in both glasses. Yet another anecdotal that beer photography is hard.