Decoction in an all-in one electric brewing system

[J.Miller]

Has anyone performed a decoction in an Anvil Foundry or other all-in-one electric brewing system, and how have you done it?

 

[doug293cz]

Just like any other brewing system, you'll need a separate vessel and heat source to boil the decocted portions.

Brew on

 

[huckdavidson]

This video of the MaltMiller hosting the Budvar brewmaster and performing a decoction with a Grainfather G40 might give you some ideas.

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/brew-with-us-budvar-czech-lager/?v=e892e780304d

 

[jdauria]

I have done it a few times, using a 32 ounce long handled ladle to scoop on the grain into a gallon pitcher, then in to a large kitchen pot that I heat on the stove. I don't know if it's the Foundry's thermometer being calibrated for "middle of the mash" or what, but the few times I did it, it never seemed to increase mash temp much. so still had to heat the main mash. But at least I am getting flavor that decoction brings.

Another method I have used is called the Earl'sche modified decoction schedule. With this method, you only add 50% of mash water and 60-70% of grain, do a 149 for 30, 162 for 30 step mash., then leaving the grain basket in, bring it to a boil and boil for 20. Then add the rest of the water, which needs to be cold, and rest of the grain...stir until the temp drops below 149. Then go through the two mash steps again and mash out (and sparge if you do, I don't) and then your normal boil.

 

[doug293cz]

Another method I have used is called the Earl'sche modified decoction schedule. With this method, you only add 50% of mash water and 60-70% of grain, do a 149 for 30, 162 for 30 step mash., then leaving the grain basket in, bring it to a boil and boil for 20. Then add the rest of the water, which needs to be cold, and rest of the grain...stir until the temp drops below 149. Then go through the two mash steps again and mash out (and sparge if you do, I don't) and then your normal boil.

Clever, eliminates the need for a second vessel and heat source.

Brew on

 

[huckdavidson]

What is the origin of the Earl'sches Decoction decoction method?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/may-the-bock-be-with-you
https://beersmith.com/forum/index.php?threads/earlsches-decoction-profile-in-beersmith.21319
https://beersmith.com/forum/index.php?threads/earlsches-decoction-profile-in-beersmith.21320

 

[Red over White]

I have done it a few times, using a 32 ounce long handled ladle to scoop on the grain into a gallon pitcher, then in to a large kitchen pot that I heat on the stove. I don't know if it's the Foundry's thermometer being calibrated for "middle of the mash" or what, but the few times I did it, it never seemed to increase mash temp much. so still had to heat the main mash. But at least I am getting flavor that decoction brings.

Another method I have used is called the Earl'sche modified decoction schedule. With this method, you only add 50% of mash water and 60-70% of grain, do a 149 for 30, 162 for 30 step mash., then leaving the grain basket in, bring it to a boil and boil for 20. Then add the rest of the water, which needs to be cold, and rest of the grain...stir until the temp drops below 149. Then go through the two mash steps again and mash out (and sparge if you do, I don't) and then your normal boil.

This is very similar to how I do a decoction in the mashtun. I have to use a spare false bottom to keep the grains under the top of the wort as I heat to 205°F and hold there while constantly recirculating. It's just as effective and no extra vessel to clean up.

 

[GoodTruble]

I often do a decoction when brewing in my brewzilla. I just remove 1-2 gallons of wort into another kettle, boil separately on the stove, and then add back in and rinse the kettle. I mainly do it to help boost the temp/speed up the boil time (and hopefully add a little depth to the flavor).

 

[day_trippr]

Decoction is quite specific wrt what gets "decocted".
One is advised to draw "the thickest part of the wort".
Hence it should be mostly grist, which should be a significant clue as to what the goal is...

Cheers!

 

[huckdavidson]

I often do a decoction when brewing in my brewzilla. I just remove 1-2 gallons of wort into another kettle, boil separately on the stove, and then add back in and rinse the kettle. I mainly do it to help boost the temp/speed up the boil time (and hopefully add a little depth to the flavor).

The goal of decoction is to burst the cellular structures binding starches and sugars in grain kernels. It does this by using the heat from boiling a portion of the mash. The result is a mass that has been heated to a temperature greater than that of the mash itself. When this thermal mass is placed back in the mash tun it raises the temperature of the mash to the next rest step temperature releasing the newly unbound starches and sugars to the enzymes in the mash.

By removing enzyme rich wort from the mash and destroying those enzymes in the decoction you risk lowering the diastatic power of the mash and possibly slowing or halting conversion.

This is the reason thick portions of the mash are decocted as opposed to the enzyme rich wort.

 

[Red over White]

Decoction is quite specific wrt what gets "decocted".
One is advised to draw "the thickest part of the wort".
Hence it should be mostly grist, which should be a significant clue as to what the goal is...

Cheers!

I would even take that a step further and say it's significant what part of the grist you choose to decoct. What part of the grist has the maltster advanced in the process that you choose to cook makes a difference. If I'm making a maibock, I'm cooking the darkest grains with the lowest degrees lintner first. Who cares about the starch inside, it's all identical, I care about the dark husk contribution above 180°F+.

 

[kevin58]

I've done this with my AIO. I use a strainer to pull out the mash and place it in a large sauce pan... take it to the kitchen stove and boil it there.

 

[jdauria]

What is the origin of the Earl'sches Decoction decoction method?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/may-the-bock-be-with-you
https://beersmith.com/forum/index.php?threads/earlsches-decoction-profile-in-beersmith.21319
https://beersmith.com/forum/index.php?threads/earlsches-decoction-profile-in-beersmith.21320

It was a German brewer whose name was Earl Scheid who came up the method for a way to do a decoction with the system he had. Hence Earl'Sches. Zymurgy had a little article (like one of those small corner boxes) on it a few years back. I also think, for AHA members, here's the link to a 2022 seminar where they touched on it. See page 22 of the PDF. If I recall, they did not talk much about it in the audio link thought. Reaching the Boiling Point: Decoction at Home

 

[J.Miller]

Thanks for the info. My goal is to decoct in my Anvil Foundry kettle and brew entirely in one vessel.

I have done single decoctions several times the traditional way within a separate kettle meanwhile mashing in my Foundry. I found poor temperature control with the separate decoction kettle while attempting step mashing prior to bringing it to the boil. Am I spoiled by the temp control provided by the all in one system? Yup.

The last time brewing a decoction, I decocted into a 2 gallon kettle placed in a 3 gallon "water bath" on direct propane heating. That resulted in much better step mash temperature control. After the step mashing, I took out the 2 gallon decoction kettle from the 3 gallon, and put it directly on the propane heat to bring it to a boil. All went well with that method, but my goal is to do decoction and mashing using only my Foundry all in one system.

So in the future, I will decoct as suggested in your replies. Thanks!

 

[Deric]

Another method I have used is called the Earl'sche modified decoction schedule. With this method, you only add 50% of mash water and 60-70% of grain, do a 149 for 30, 162 for 30 step mash., then leaving the grain basket in, bring it to a boil and boil for 20. Then add the rest of the water, which needs to be cold, and rest of the grain...stir until the temp drops below 149. Then go through the two mash steps again and mash out (and sparge if you do, I don't) and then your normal boil.

Considering giving this a try but not sure it would work in my system. I have a 10 gallon BIAB system based on @Bobby_M 's Brewhardware design. Typical full volume mash for a 5 gallon batch uses ~8 gallons of water. It takes ~3 gallons to get the water level above the false bottom. For a ~1.048 beer I use 11-12 lbs of grain. So I'd be looking at 6 ish lbs of grain in about a gallon of water to start. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Thinking if I start with a bit more water AND a bit less grain that should work as long as I have enough water left over to get the temp back down.

Thoughts?

 

[Red over White]

For 10 gal batches I use 60% strike water and 30% of the grist and have 3 gals under my false bottom as well. I think you should be able to strike a compromise somewhere on your gear and have plenty of diastatic power left to effectively step mash afterwards.

 

[jdauria]

Considering giving this a try but not sure it would work in my system. I have a 10 gallon BIAB system based on @Bobby_M 's Brewhardware design. Typical full volume mash for a 5 gallon batch uses ~8 gallons of water. It takes ~3 gallons to get the water level above the false bottom. For a ~1.048 beer I use 11-12 lbs of grain. So I'd be looking at 6 ish lbs of grain in about a gallon of water to start. Doesn't seem like a good idea. Thinking if I start with a bit more water AND a bit less grain that should work as long as I have enough water left over to get the temp back down.

Thoughts?

Yeah that would not be a good idea, but maybe you can play with the grain to water numbers that gets something to work for your system. Otherwise you may need to do a normal decoction in a second kettle/pot.

 

[DevilsCups]

Apartment Brewer recently did a decoction video on an AIO. Worth a watch.

 

[jwintersteller]

Was thinking of trying a single decoction this weekend on a Rothaus Pils clone. My main brew vessel is a 65L Brewzilla Gen 4, but I also have my old 3.1 35L that I have been just using for a HLT. Just trying to think this all through: if I use the 35L for boiling the decoction, would I use the malt pipe still or just the false bottom? Obviously concerned about scorching. I would also need to add some additional strike water (not wort) to compensate for the false bottom loss?

 

[J.Miller]

I would also need to add some additional strike water (not wort) to compensate for the false bottom loss?

Yes, I believe, so that your original calculated 'after boil volume' is maintained the same volume which is the same volume as the 'in the fermenter volume.' I am not familiar with your Brewzilla equipment and calculation methods and so I hope my reply is clear in meaning.

 

[doug293cz]

Was thinking of trying a single decoction this weekend on a Rothaus Pils clone. My main brew vessel is a 65L Brewzilla Gen 4, but I also have my old 3.1 35L that I have been just using for a HLT. Just trying to think this all through: if I use the 35L for boiling the decoction, would I use the malt pipe still or just the false bottom? Obviously concerned about scorching. I would also need to add some additional strike water (not wort) to compensate for the false bottom loss?

False bottoms are not used in "regular" decoctions, why would you use one here. Things would be different if you were trying to boil the decoction where the heating element was in the grain (water heater type element) rather than under the grain.

Brew on

 

[mkopec1]

Ive read that decoction was primarily used in the past where they didnt have accurate ways to measure mash temps and also didnt have ways to keep the mash at specified temps for extended periods of time. So the brewers came up with this method to do their step mashes. Honestly though I dont think any major brewers aside some craft places even use this method anymore. But what this does provide is that maillard reaction reducing sugars to create melanoidins, the compounds which give browned food its distinctive flavor. So it does provide its unique benefits. I will also be trying this in the future to see what type of flavor profile it adds to a beer I have brewed before.

 

[DuncB]

Honestly though I dont think any major brewers aside some craft places even use this method anymore.

Not sure why you think this. Post 3 for starters is a fairly major brewer.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

in the beginning decoction was used as a way to increase the mash temperature, they didn’t have a way to regulate the temperature so this was an easy way, it would be nice to go back to the roots and try this even with any setup