Going from three vessel propane to Electric All in one

[JeffersonCoastal]

I currently have a three vessel, low tech (gravity fed, coolers for mash and sparge) propane system. Couple years ago upgraded to 15 gallon Spike kettle, which works great and gives flexibility. Have been brewing on this system for 5.5 years, nothing wrong with it, but would like more precision in numbers as well as some automation, and less work on brew days.

I'm strongly considering going to an Electric All In One. Optimally, I'd like the option to make up to 10 gallon batches of normal strength or a 5 gallon batch of very big beer. I understand about time savings going with a higher voltage, so will plan accordingly.

Recommendations on best systems and any experienced downsides to All-In-One brewing overall?

 

[lumpher]

I don't have a recommendation for a particular AIO, as I use the Mash and Boil, and it's only good for 5 gallons/16 lbs of grain, but as for ups and downs, I can add a few:

Ups:
Set up a step, set a timer, and walk away. No need to watch the temps.
More consistent results as a lot of variables can be eliminated
Easy to clean
Less storage space (small footprint)
Easier to set it up on brew day. Just pick it up and move it to your brew space (or keep it there, if the location works for you)
Great for BIAB, especially if it already has the grain basket in it
Very easy step-mashes

Downs:
Still need a liquor tank to heat sparge water (unless you only do extracts or no-sparge BIAB)
Need to calibrate temps on it, as the gauges and thermostat might not be exactly right, but this needs to be done on new equipment anyway
Usually a lot of money to put up at one time ($400+ in 1 shot)

 

[pvpeacock]

I switched from a 3 vessel, propane system a little over a year ago and am glad I bit the bullet and spent the money to do so. I looked at a lot of different all-in-one electric systems and ended up buying the Grainfather G40. I love it, but don't have any experience with other systems to compare it to. I did go with the G40 so I have the flexibility of making 5 or 10 gallon batches

My only solid tip is to go with a 240 volt system and not a 120 volt system.

I agree with Lumpher's Ups. I will add that the Grainfather system connects to WiFi so you can control it from afar which is a big plus. I have filled it with strike water the night before brew day and then started the heating element while away from home so its ready when I get there. I have also set a timer so it starts heating the water before I get out of bed.

I do not agree that you need a separate liquor tank. I either sparge with cold water or I heat the strike and sparge water together from the start and then drain off the sparge water into a bucket or cooler before mashing in. I have not noticed any drop in efficiency even using cold water.

 

[Broken Crow]

There's a parallel thread you might want to look at: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/equipment-crossroads.731392/
..sounds very similar to your situation. I've been following it as I've been slowly trying to build a 3V rig accomodating to disability, but have lately been considering jumping on a sale on a Brewzilla 35L. I'm still waiting to hear what the LODO crowd has to say about such AIO's, but so far that thread has provided much food for thought. You may wish to join in on it.

 

[Bobby_M]

In order to make 10 gallon batches in a single vessel, it usually means a 20 gallon kettle unless you're willing to sparge. I'm a big fan of no sparge, full volume mashing so I'd go as far to say that a 20G system is required. You can squeak 10 gallons out of the 17 gallon/65 liter all in ones like the Anvil Foundry and the Brewzilla 65L but I still find them a bit anemic in power. 4000 watts sounds like a lot but when your preboil is 12.5 gallons, it feels slow.

I built systems based on the same concept but using higher powered elements and more robust pumps that are typically found in 3 vessel systems.

https://www.brewhardware.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=premium+recirc&Submit=

Most of the systems will use a standard 5500 watt element but a 20 gallon kettle with the SLINGBLADE upgrade can be as high as 5750 watts.

To get an idea of the heat times, just taking an example of heating 14 gallons of strike water from 70 to 155F,
4000w AIO system: 46 minutes
5500 watt: 33 minutes

Ramp from mash to boil:
AIO: 27 minutes
5500w: 20 minutes

Once it gets to a boil, the 4000w is more like a simmer than a rolling boil, but it's debatable whether that matters for anything.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I have a Braumeister. It limits the gravity, it's a pain to wash, you have to join Speidel's online cult if you want full recipe storage capability, and when a part goes bad, you may be unable to get it. Another factor: they cost $3000 new, which is mystifying.

Works great, however.

I switched to BIAB.

 

[SFC Rudy]

I don't have a recommendation for a particular AIO, as I use the Mash and Boil, and it's only good for 5 gallons/16 lbs of grain, but as for ups and downs, I can add a few:

Ups:
Set up a step, set a timer, and walk away. No need to watch the temps.
More consistent results as a lot of variables can be eliminated
Easy to clean
Less storage space (small footprint)
Easier to set it up on brew day. Just pick it up and move it to your brew space (or keep it there, if the location works for you)
Great for BIAB, especially if it already has the grain basket in it
Very easy step-mashes

Downs:
Still need a liquor tank to heat sparge water (unless you only do extracts or no-sparge BIAB)
Need to calibrate temps on it, as the gauges and thermostat might not be exactly right, but this needs to be done on new equipment anyway
Usually a lot of money to put up at one time ($400+ in 1 shot)

I have two Mash & Boil units where I would mash in one and sparge in the other. Recently I realized that the grain basket will fit in my Anvil fermenter. So now I heat my full volume of water and then put my sparge water in a cooler to keep it warm, then batch sparge in the fermenter for about 10 minutes after the mash. Then combine and boil.

With the two units I can brew two different five-gallon batches in about six hours.

 

[Bassman2003]

I think the way to answer your question lies in the type of brewing you want to do:

Are you a very technical brewer or just happy to make beer?
Do you like all of the stages of the brew day or do you just want to have some decent wort at the end of the day?
Do you have any LoDo aspirations?
Are your recipes single rest mashes or step mashes?

AIOs are great but they are made in a certain way which excludes *some* things for convenience. Many do not care as their brewing is not affected. I own an Anvil Foundry. It is a great value imho. But I retained my HLT and eventually added a boil kettle for my brewing (low oxygen nerd).

Outside of the AIO choice, I am a fan of enclosed heating elements. I have brewed with the exposed element in the mash/wort and I much prefer to have the heating behind the SS. Induction is great as well. A con for me is dealing with any kind of bag or basket draining. I like to get very clear wort to the boil kettle and that is kind of a challenge with an AIO. Many do not care about this (which is fine).

I am with Bobby, full volume mashing is great. @JeffersonCoastal tell us some more about your brewing and maybe the choices can be narrowed down a bit more.

 

[JeffersonCoastal]

I think the way to answer your question lies in the type of brewing you want to do:

Are you a very technical brewer or just happy to make beer?
Do you like all of the stages of the brew day or do you just want to have some decent wort at the end of the day?
Do you have any LoDo aspirations?
Are your recipes single rest mashes or step mashes?

AIOs are great but they are made in a certain way which excludes *some* things for convenience. Many do not care as their brewing is not affected. I own an Anvil Foundry. It is a great value imho. But I retained my HLT and eventually added a boil kettle for my brewing (low oxygen nerd).

Outside of the AIO choice, I am a fan of enclosed heating elements. I have brewed with the exposed element in the mash/wort and I much prefer to have the heating behind the SS. Induction is great as well. A con for me is dealing with any kind of bag or basket draining. I like to get very clear wort to the boil kettle and that is kind of a challenge with an AIO. Many do not care about this (which is fine).

I am with Bobby, full volume mashing is great. @JeffersonCoastal tell us some more about your brewing and maybe the choices can be narrowed down a bit more.

To answer your questions

• I'm as technical as I can be with my system
• I like all stages of the brew day (except clean up!)
• LoDo??
• My recipes are both. Probably 65/35 Singe/Step

I'm fairly varied with my styles. I tend to favor Belgians and European Lagers, but also do a variety of ales (IPA, Blonde, Scottish, English) as well as stouts, BW, Winter warmers. Diversified. Majority are 5 gallon batches but want the option to do 7.5 and 10 gal

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks. I see 3V as offering a little more customization for mash rests and techniques. AIO might limit some of these like low temp (110F) rests for hefeweizen without risking some scorching. I do these with the help of my HLT. Or no sediment in the boil kettle. Outside of that, I would say no reason an AIO would not work. Just pick a big one for 10g batches!

 

[passedpawn]

To answer your questions

• I'm as technical as I can be with my system
• I like all stages of the brew day (except clean up!)
• LoDo??
• My recipes are both. Probably 65/35 Singe/Step

I'm fairly varied with my styles. I tend to favor Belgians and European Lagers, but also do a variety of ales (IPA, Blonde, Scottish, English) as well as stouts, BW, Winter warmers. Diversified. Majority are 5 gallon batches but want the option to do 7.5 and 10 gal

I had HUGE reservations about abandoning my 20g mash tun and 15g kettles. However, downsizing to a 5g AIO wasn't a big deal. It's so fun and easy to brew and clean, I do it a LOT more often than I used to. So, consider that.

If you want quick heating times, must be a 240V system.

Good luck with your choice. I have an SS Brewtech SVBS, and I love it. Fits my needs. Very compact and integrated, and easy to clean.

 

[tracer bullet]

LoDo??

Low Dissolved Oxygen

 

[Bobby_M]

Thanks. I see 3V as offering a little more customization for mash rests and techniques. AIO might limit some

Thanks. I see 3V as offering a little more customization for mash rests and techniques. AIO might limit some of these like low temp (110F) rests for hefeweizen without risking some scorching. I do these with the help of my HLT. Or no sediment in the boil kettle. Outside of that, I would say no reason an AIO would not work. Just pick a big one for 10g batches!

I step mash for at least half of my batches in a 5500 watt single vessel and the ramps are extremely fast. I wouldn't attempt it on a 120v AIO though. That would require boiling water infusions.

 

[Bassman2003]

The AIOs are a great value imho. For $350 I got an easy to use mash tun, a recirc pump and a chiller that I incorporated into my 50 ft chiller. It would be a better value if I truly used it as an AIO. One approach which I saw above is to buy two of the low priced coffee urn AIOs and simulate a multi-vessel system. Temp control and pumps included. Might be a great way forward for not excessive money...

 

[RichBenn]

Years ago I designed a three vessel electric HERMs system(I’m an electronics engineer). I built it to do fly, batch or recirculating BIAB.

Guess what? Last 15 brews have been recirculating BIAB. Efficiencies are always about 85%. Award winning beers. So much easier.

If I ever sell this, I’d get an AIO, or just keep the main vessel for BIAB and boil, which is basically AIO.

 

[SaisonMan]

Dear Abby: I've been brewing for two years, and after about a year of using a Mash & Boil, I finally feel like I have things dialed in. I enjoy brewing this way. And yet ... something about a 3-vessel system calls to me. I'm not sure what it is. The shiny vessels? The idea that it looks more like a professional operation? The ability to control a brew day better? I find myself perusing Facebook Marketplace and Homebrew Talk classifieds. Here's the strange part: There's very little about my home that's conducive to a 3-vessel rig. I live in a cold climate. My garage isn't heated. The ceilings in the basement of my home are low. I supposed I'd have to get an electrician in to set up 240V. And I'm concerned my wife would act on any homicidal urges she might already be harboring if I broached making such an investment. Signed, What's Wrong With Me?

 

[pvpeacock]

Dear SaisonMan:
Why can't you just buy six packs of Bud Lite at the market like everyone else. You should be spending your free time trying to improve your wife's well being and happiness. Have you thought of converting your garage into a spa for your wife. How about home brewing tea for your wife and her friends? Perhaps you should consider becoming a pastry chef and using your interest in home brewing to make your wife her favorite cakes and cookies instead. You sound very selfish to me. Abby.

 

[SaisonMan]

Dear SaisonMan:
Why can't you just buy six packs of Bud Lite at the market like everyone else. You should be spending your free time trying to improve your wife's well being and happiness. Have you thought of converting your garage into a spa for your wife. How about home brewing tea for your wife and her friends? Perhaps you should consider becoming a pastry chef and using your interest in home brewing to make your wife her favorite cakes and cookies instead. You sound very selfish to me. Abby.

Chamomile tea ... you might be onto something here.

 

[Bassman2003]

Saison, I would say is there anything that jumps out when brewing with the M&B that feels limiting? Want to try some more extensive mash programs? Think the wort could be clearer? The info has come back from the masses and the AIOs make perfectly good beer. The 3V systems will give your more options at the higher level but that comes with more expense and cleaning. It all comes down to your goals.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's pretty tiring, but I will always return to remind people that there are several options that lie in between a budget friendly all in one and a fully tricked out 3 vessel system. If someone is so inclined, which of the 100 beer styles are objectively best brewed on a 3 vessel.

 

[Bassman2003]

That is subjective. One who prefers brewing on a 3 vessel would say all styles are better when brewed in their brewhouse. Tricked out anything is going to be expensive vs lower priced setups. 3 vessel does not need to represent a monstrosity either. I have an AIO that grew into a 3 vessel because I wanted an HLT for heating strike water, underletting, doing infusions and heating PBW water and I wanted to be able to transfer away from my mash instead of lifting the bag (pot with induction burner). I try not to be pretentious but I am a 3 vessel brewer that will probably always brew this way.

One can brew in a single vessel just fine but that does not eliminate the reasons why I brew 3 vessel. The two can coexist for sure.

 

[SFC Rudy]

It's pretty tiring, but I will always return to remind people that there are several options that lie in between a budget friendly all in one and a fully tricked out 3 vessel system. If someone is so inclined, which of the 100 beer styles are objectively best brewed on a 3 vessel.

People win medals at NHC with extract beers.

 

[earachemyeye69]

Brewzilla 64l is a decent option

 

[thewho1985]

I recommend buying my electric 3 vessel system. It’s super nice and cheap. It’s posted in the for sale section!