Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868

[kmarkstevens]

@Protos Thanks, you've just saved me an order at MoreBeer. I'll just substitute and use the Lithuanian bread yeast.

Did anyone else notice that Viking Malt cost has increased about a dollar a pound sometime in 2022? It used to be much cheaper than other malts on MoreBeer, and now it's priced in line with all other malts. Not sure if it's related to the Russian invasion or just a change in the product positioning?

 

[Protos]

Months before the Russian invasion I've heard rumours on forthcoming rise of prices on Barley in Europe because of dwindling growing areas, bad crops and the planned famine in Europe scheduled by the New Normality reptiloids on the next year. So I hoarded me some malts, which I think was a wise thing to do.

Alternatively, in Viking case that may be just the change of source. F.ex. instead of cheaper batches made in Poland the seller might switch to Swedish or Danish batches: same type, higher price. I don't know though, if Viking do really differentiate their prices depending on the country of manufacture... If not, then it's reptiloids the beginning of the long-foreseen global Barley price jump.
Hoard, and you won't regret it.

 

[McMullan]

Reptiloid shareholders and sovereign greed funds are demanding COVID dividends across the board mainly. I hoarded several sacks of malted barley early in the pandemic. Ended up with a weevil and his extended family making themselves at home and pleasing themselves without any concern for my feelings. So I hung the offending sack outside for a few days, when it was -15*C. If hoarding, be aware of the risks of exasperating shortages, increasing prices therefore feeding reptiloids even more dividends.

 

[Protos]

That's sound.
Each extra buck you spend on your malt tomorrow will feed you can guess whom. So hoard now.

Weevils, I went the opposite direction: I toasted my malt in the oven for a minute (not enough to alter the flavour but enough to kill off the bugs), sieved the dead weevils away and packed the malt in large airtight containers. Lotta work, but I hope the heat cleared it not just of the weevils but also of all other microlife, fungi included. So I hope the hoarded malt will stay good for longer than just usual out-of-the-store malt.

 

[Knox]

Did anyone else notice that Viking Malt cost has increased about a dollar a pound sometime in 2022?

Malt prices in general has gone up. At work we have seen an increase of 50-65% in price across the mass manufacturers. Castle, Weyermann and Viking.

in Viking case that may be just the change of source. F.ex. instead of cheaper batches made in Poland the seller might switch to Swedish or Danish batches: same type, higher price.

When I was at their Danish site, the before mentioned production lead and I were talking, he mentioned they couldn't get enough malt for the rest of the year. They had bought every grain they could in Denmark, Sweden, Lithuania and Poland. The harvest has been very bad last year which is what we are feeling now.

 

[McMullan]

It's worse than a poor season. Demand has spiked without adequate supply chains. A perfect storm.

 

[ba-brewer]

This is my RABESHAVE LAGERØL from post 51 Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868

It started at 1057 and ended at 1015 and about 20IBUs. I have to say this is one of the sweetest beer I have made. The first sip always seems the most sweet then tastes bud get over the shock and it is less noticeable. For having a fairly high final gravity it does not seem too heavy, actually drinks pretty easy.

 

[Knox]

This is my RABESHAVE LAGERØL from post 51 Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868
View attachment 768647

It started at 1057 and ended at 1015 and about 20IBUs. I have to say this is one of the sweetest beer I have made. The first sip always seems the most sweet then tastes bud get over the shock and it is less noticeable. For having a fairly high final gravity it does not seem too heavy, actually drinks pretty easy.

First of all, what a beauty! The colour is really spot on. We often call this slightly darker then Pilsner lagers for Classics here in Denmark.

I am surprised of the slightly high finishing gravity. But I can see it is a 72% attenuation rate, so it fits with the data sheet of the yeast. As for the lightness, a protein step can do wonders.

How is the flavour profile other then sweet?

 

[ba-brewer]

First of all, what a beauty! The colour is really spot on. We often call this slightly darker then Pilsner lagers for Classics here in Denmark.

I am surprised of the slightly high finishing gravity. But I can see it is a 72% attenuation rate, so it fits with the data sheet of the yeast. As for the lightness, a protein step can do wonders.

How is the flavour profile other then sweet?

I generally get closer to 75% attenuation with WY2042 but have also had attenuations about 72% a few times. I had made the starter then let it for about a month before using the yeast so that might have something to do with. I used the yeast cake for a Thor lager but because I move it to the keg to naturally carb I don't if the second pitch attenuated better.

I did do a protein rest on the beer, but I used a RIMS system instead of decoction. I did add melanoidin malt to compensate.

Aroma of the beer is pretty clean, no sulfur but a slight apple aroma. I don't think I have noticed the apple aroma from this yeast before but I almost always have some late hops in my beers so that could of masked it in the past. Slight boozy aroma if the beer is allowed to warm, I serve at about 42 to 45F.

Flavor is clean, apple in the aroma does not show up on the tongue. There is a graininess to the flavor but the sweetness makes it hard for me to detect or get a clear classification of the flavor. I will need to do more sampling to figure it out, but the graininess is more of a raw grain flavor vs a baked bread or cracker type flavor.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I apologize for the late response! I didn't notice the question here at the bottom! You are right it was first commercially available in 1989, but I think the flavour and aroma profile is close to that of Saaz and Tettnanger, maybe a bit muted in comparison to the two of them. That is what I meant, the aroma and flavour profile is representative of the time.

Tell us which you want to try!

Looking at the THOR LAGERØL
20L
3.5# munich light
3.5# lager
.5# Crystal 60
6oz melanoidum
Tettnanger and/or middlefruh (I've got english hops as well)
Lithuanian bread yeast
OG1042
FG1015?

Q: what should the IBU be? I know it's low. Or what should the BU:GU ratio be around? BU:GU 0.50
Q: FG should be around what? 1015? 1012? I don't want something overly sweet but still try hit the spirit of the style. God knows what the Lithuanian bread yeast will ferment out to. If it's high, I can always finish the ferment, and then hit it with second yeast to get down to a target FG.

FYI, Chris White/White Labs did a recent podcast with Brad Smith where he started extolling the virtues of multiple yeast strains pitched at once. Any homebrewing yeast head has done that for years.

 

[ba-brewer]

This was my version of the Thor lager, almost fits in the guidelines of an International Amber Lager. I goofed up on the amount of cholate malt, I think it should of been half that amount but it is hard to manage in beersmith.

Starting Gravity 1043
Final Gravity 1010
4.4%ABV
17.5IBU
.403IBU/SG
Mash 152F
4.2gal, 75%BHE

3lb Viking Pilsner (45.3%)
3lb viking light munich (45.3%)
6oz weyerman carmunich1 (5.7%)
3oz weyerman melanoidin (2.8%)
1oz bairds chocolate (1%)
26gm Hallertau MF 60min 4.2AA 17.5IBU
WY2042 Danish Lager Yeast

It has been lagering for about 6weeks but I have not tasted yet.

 

[kmarkstevens]

My sister in law brought back both Lithuanian bread yeast, and German bread yeast that had been imported to Lithuania. I'll trying brewing small batches with both, but I guess the Lithuanian might be more "farmhouse" like?

 

[Protos]

I doubt there might be much difference depending of country of origin. Most probably, the Lithuanian bread yeast is just a repacking of some foreign brand, German or French (if not Turkish or Russian). For example, in Finland you may find a lot of dry bread yeasts, but the only one you need for Sahti (Hiiva Yeast) goes in wet pressed blocks.
Wet pressed blocks are more likely to be a unique local race than dried (which need elaborate lab selection and drying process). I tried a wet block once in a medieval-themed concoction, didn't like the resulting beer but the flavour was really unique and distinctive, some might like it.

I read some articles on traditional home-brewing in Latvia. They used wet block yeast from the local bakery and kept it wrapped in cloth and put in a cold well between brewing sessions.
(I was seeking info on that because my grandgranddad in Latvia - who lived up to me being a teenager and whom I remember well - used to brew beer on holidays, so I wanted to recreate his homebrew. Don't know a bit on his process except that the beer should be drunk fresh, exactly at the party it had been brewed for, and didn't store well - so it was Sahti-like, I assume).

 

[Miraculix]

View attachment 768812
My sister in law brought back both Lithuanian bread yeast, and German bread yeast that had been imported to Lithuania. I'll trying brewing small batches with both, but I guess the Lithuanian might be more "farmhouse" like?

The Dr oetker one is a generic baking yeast which you can buy all over Europe and the German one is actually without any yeast. I guess they use bacteria in that one, it's marketed as "baking without yeast", for people who are allergic to yeast.

 

[kmarkstevens]

The Dr oetker one is a generic baking yeast which you can buy all over Europe and the German one is actually without any yeast. I guess they use bacteria in that one, it's marketed as "baking without yeast", for people who are allergic to yeast.

Thanks for the update. The German one might be interesting in a good way? dunno. probably worth making a small batch just for fun.

By asking a non beer drinking non Lithuanian speaking relative to buy farmhouse beer yeast, I shouldn't be surprised by what I got.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thanks for the update. The German one might be interesting in a good way? dunno. probably worth making a small batch just for fun.

By asking a non beer drinking non Lithuanian speaking relative to buy farmhouse beer yeast, I shouldn't be surprised by what I got.

Had you looked at the Lithuanian farmhouse yeast available in the US?

I see the one from Omega and one from the Yeast Bay are diastatic which might too desirable but I see one at yeast bay that is not.
Lithuanian — The Yeast Bay
Jovaru Lithuanian Farmhouse

I thought I seen a Kveik in the last that was from Lithuania.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Thanks Ba-brewer. To explain further, I don't really care about Lithuanian yeast per say. It's just that my niece is teaching international school there, and my brother and his wife were visiting. Since it's too hard for rookies not speaking the language nor knowing what they are looking for to find yeast, I took the easy way out and asked for dried bread yeast.

I mean I only have at least 20 different yeast strains in the fridge, so thought I might be able to get something "authentic" but doesn't seem that way. Some kind of generic bread yeast available across much of Europe and then a yeast free something from Germany that still produces a rise in bread. What the hell, I'm gonna try both knowing that the outcome is likely to not be a pleasant surprise. But, I'll report back on the findings. You know, further the interests of science and all that.

 

[Beermeister32]

YI, Chris White/White Labs did a recent podcast with Brad Smith where he started extolling the virtues of multiple yeast strains pitched at once. Any homebrewing yeast head has done that for years.

Prior to Jacobsen at Calsberg separating out separate yeast strains, all brewers yeast would have been a mix of all sorts of yeast strains.

I read somewhere that brewers didn’t always know if they would end up with an ale or a lager - depended a lot on weather temperature. If it got cold out during fermentation, the beer had more lager characteristics.

 

[BrewingWisdom]

No mention of measuring abv and how to make it carbonated.
I guess the use of hydrometers was not popular back then. And people were fine with drinking a flat beer.

 

[Boilinginsc]

I got to visit Haderslev area once, great people, great place!
I’ll have to revisit this after we complete a remodel and I unpack everything

 

[pvtpublic]

Just stumbled across this thread, and I definitely need to follow

 

[Boilinginsc]

This is my RABESHAVE LAGERØL from post 51 Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868
View attachment 768647

It started at 1057 and ended at 1015 and about 20IBUs. I have to say this is one of the sweetest beer I have made. The first sip always seems the most sweet then tastes bud get over the shock and it is less noticeable. For having a fairly high final gravity it does not seem too heavy, actually drinks pretty easy.

That looks good!

 

[kmarkstevens]

View attachment 768812
My sister in law brought back both Lithuanian bread yeast, and German bread yeast that had been imported to Lithuania. I'll trying brewing small batches with both, but I guess the Lithuanian might be more "farmhouse" like?

I can categorically state that the Backferment does not make surprisingly good beer. My experiment came out simply nasty. The wort fermented down to 1006, but simply a nasty mash up of bacterial and other critters that are not tasty. Maybe one could bottle and let sit for a year but I am not so patient.

Hopefully it didn't taint my Speidel 30L fermenter, which is undergoing a bleech and vinegar sanitization step now, to be followed by PBW, and then nuked with star san. What was I thinking? I have another fermenter that works with a liner for this kind of stuff. Hopefully the critters are not too bad to kill off.

I haven't tried the Dr. Oetecker ferment yet. It should be finished, but that 3 gallon connical doesn't have a taster valve. I'll test and then bottle in the next few days. I'm sure it fermented out in about 72 yours.

 

[ba-brewer]

This is a couple pic of the Thor lager I brewed a while back. The recipe is a few post back. Goofed up the chocolate malt so it turned out fairly dark. Not sure if it is the lower gravity or something else but this beer is drinking faster then the last Danish lager I brewed.

There is a slight haze but it does not effect the flavor. Starts with a nice creamy head that does not last too long. The aroma is fairly clean slight sulfur from the yeast. The beer has a nice body and tastes pretty close to a balanced bitterness even though the IBUs where not that high.

 

[Beermeister32]

Boy that looks good!!

 

[javu74]

Sahti malt is actually a blend of a darker-shade Pale and I believe no more than 10-15% Dark Rye malt (toasted, not pre-fermented). I've tasted the real thing and tried to recreate it at home.

Viking Sahti malt does NOT have any rye malt, its 100% barley malt.
It contains about 85% of pilsner malt and the rest is a bit darker malt + about 5% of enzyme malt to help mashing process.

Many, if not most sahti brewers in Finland add rye in some form to viking sahti blend. Mostly "Kaljamallas" which is dark, toasted 180EBC rye malt or in some regions also lighter rye malts and unmalted rye is used, sometimes in huge amounts. (like half of the malt bill could be unmalted rye)

Sahti is regularly made also without rye, and then it can either be really pale, straw-colored ale or darker coloured if brewer uses caramel malt.

 

[Protos]

Yep, that's right.
No Rye in Viking Sahti Malt, one needs to add it himself.
Last month, I brewed two recipes inspired by Mika Laitinen's book.
Since he considers Kveik yeasts a legit substitute for Wet Bread Yeast, although different in flavour, I went with two hybrid recipes: Sahti grist (3/4 Pilsner+1/4 Munchner blend, some Light Rye Malt, 10% Red Fermented Rye Malt 150EBC, said to be a passable substitute for Kaljamallas by those who had tried both things) and Kveik yeast and procedure (very light hopping and boiling).
Not a Sahti definitely (I dare not brew raw beers in summer), still a good strong beer with an interesting Rye touch.

 

[Knox]

This is a couple pic of the Thor lager I brewed a while back. The recipe is a few post back. Goofed up the chocolate malt so it turned out fairly dark. Not sure if it is the lower gravity or something else but this beer is drinking faster then the last Danish lager I brewed.

There is a slight haze but it does not effect the flavor. Starts with a nice creamy head that does not last too long. The aroma is fairly clean slight sulfur from the yeast. The beer has a nice body and tastes pretty close to a balanced bitterness even though the IBUs where not that high.

View attachment 775776

View attachment 775777

Happy to hear that it is tasty and goes down quickly! Looks really pretty
Regarding the bitterness, you need to remember that around 17 IBU against 1043 SG you are almost at 0.5 BUGU. Fun fact, at work we tested the IBU of Carlsberg and it was a disappointing 10 IBU (calling it a pilsner is borderline criminal :') ), so yours is approximately twice as bitter.