Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868

[Protos]

Here is my report on brewing one of the recipes kindly provided by Knox in this thread.

WIIBROE PILSNERØL 1939.
My brewing volume is non-standard, so I'd rather provide percents and IBU instead of weights.

OG: 1.042, FG: 1.007
ABV: 4.6%, IBU: 12+
Water profile: Bru'n Yellow Dry (Ca 50, Mg 10, Na 4, SO 106, Cl 44)

Fuglsang Pilsner (DNK) - 98%
Simpsons Dark Crystal (GBR) - 2%

Hallertauer Mitelfrüh α4.3 (DEU) - 12 IBU @90'
Golding α4.3 (GBR) - dry hop, same weight as H. Mf. for the last 7 days of Lagerization.

Fermentis S-23 yeast, sprinkled dry

Double decoction mash: 30'@50°C - 60'@62°C - 15'@70°C
Primary 14 Days @12°C
Lagering 2 Months @0°-4°C
Carbonation 2.2v

I didn't expect much from this beer that looked like a sort of German Helles with an English touch, buy boy what a beer I've got now! All the good descriptors standardly applied to an excellent Lager are totally applyable here. Crisp. Light. Grainy-sweet. Aromatic. Neutral: not acidic, not bitter, not cloying. Balanced and perfect. It's also my only Lager of the season where S-23 gave a slight and pleasant Sulphury flavour (I weirldly love a Sulphur whiff and won't mind there was a bit more of it). A perfect Lager to my taste, period.
This winter I brewed no more no less than 25 different Lagers (brewing smaller batches greatly helps to maintain diversity in your beer cellar), a third of them being Light Lagers in the wein of Pilsner or Helles. This Wiibroe Pilsner is one of my two personal winners among them (another one being my Suidwestafrikanisches Helles, inspired by a Windhoek Special Lager clone from the Szamatulski's book, hopped with South African hops that surprisingly turned out to be as good as German).
I was surprised that I liked very much such a low hopping rate: almost twice as low as in my lowest-hopped Helles. I think in my next brews I might want to explore and reconsider my hopping preferences.
I had great expectations regarding my German and German-type Pilsners (to the making of which I dedicated much more effort than to this one), but this brew is definitely superior to them. During my next tasting / brewlog analyzing sessions I gotta find out, why.


***
ANNOUNCEMENT
My next beer from the Danish Series: THOR LAGERØL 1933.
And even some more after it.

 

[Miraculix]

Here is my report on brewing one of the recipes kindly provided by Knox in this thread.

WIIBROE PILSNERØL 1939.
My brewing volume is non-standard, so I'd rather provide percents and IBU instead of weights.

View attachment 765187

OG: 1.042, FG: 1.007
ABV: 4.6%, IBU: 12+
Water profile: Bru'n Yellow Dry (Ca 50, Mg 10, Na 4, SO 106, Cl 44)

Fuglsang Pilsner (DNK) - 98%
Simpsons Dark Crystal (GBR) - 2%

Hallertauer Mitelfrüh α4.3 (DEU) - 12 IBU @90'
Golding α4.3 (GBR) - dry hop, same weight as H. Mf. for the last 7 days of Lagerization.

Fermentis S-23 yeast, sprinkled dry

Double decoction mash: 30'@50°C - 60'@62°C - 15'@70°C
Primary 14 Days @12°C
Lagering 2 Months @0°-4°C
Carbonation 2.2v

I didn't expect much from this beer that looked like a sort of German Helles with an English touch, buy boy what a beer I've got now! All the good descriptors standardly applied to an excellent Lager are totally applyable here. Crisp. Light. Grainy-sweet. Aromatic. Neutral: not acidic, not bitter, not cloying. Balanced and perfect. It's also my only Lager of the season where S-23 gave a slight and pleasant Sulphury flavour (I weirldly love a Sulphur whiff and won't mind there was a bit more of it). A perfect Lager to my taste, period.
This winter I brewed no more no less than 25 different Lagers (brewing smaller batches greatly helps to maintain diversity in your beer cellar), a third of them being Light Lagers in the wein of Pilsner or Helles. This Wiibroe Pilsner is one of my two personal winners among them (another one being my Suidwestafrikanisches Helles, inspired by a Windhoek Special Lager clone from the Szamatulski's book, hopped with South African hops that surprisingly turned out to be as good as German).
I was surprised that I liked very much such a low hopping rate: almost twice as low as in my lowest-hopped Helles. I think in my next brews I might want to explore and reconsider my hopping preferences.
I had great expectations regarding my German and German-type Pilsners (to the making of which I dedicated much more effort than to this one), but this brew is definitely superior to them. During my next tasting / brewlog analyzing sessions I gotta find out, why.


***
ANNOUNCEMENT
My next beer from the Danish Series: THOR LAGERØL 1933.
And even some more after it.

Sounds good to me, I love "underhopped" light lagers. I buy Coors from time to time.

How is the foam on this one? My low hop beats often suffer often from bad head retention...

 

[Protos]

On the pic, it's the second round poured slowly and cautiously into the wet glass, so the foam is low.
When I poured the first bottle into the dry glass the foam rose like 15 cm high and I had to slurp it out to make room for the beer.
In my book, foam is a very insignificant byproduct, so frankly I never make a notice how thick it is or how long does it last. Can say just that I didn't notice anything unusual with it.

 

[Protos]

Here comes another result of the fruitful conversation in this thread:

THOR LAGERØL 1933.
My brewing volume is non-standard, so I'd rather provide percents and IBU instead of weights.

OG: 1.045, FG: 1.009
ABV: 5%, IBU: 25
Water profile: Ca 30, SO 28, Cl 32

Fuglsang Pilsner (DNK) - 57%
Viking Munich (FIN) - 34%
Ireks Karamell Eiche, which is Crystal 10°L (DEU) - 8.8 %
Weyermann Carafa Spezial III (DEU) - 0.2%

Hallertauer Tradition α6 (DEU) - 25 IBU @90'

Fermentis S-23 yeast, cake from the Wiibroe Pilsner above

Double decoction mash: 30'@50°C - 60'@63°C - 45'@72°C
Primary 14 Days @12°C
Lagering 2 Months @0°-4°C
Carbonation 2.3v. Foamy head noticeably weaker than in Wiibroe Pilsner.

If the Wiibroe Pilsner above was essentially a Helles with a slight English touch, this Danish Lager is a not-so-distant relative of Märzen. I love this beer. It's almost as good as Wiibroe Pilsner. The only thing that prevented it to be on-par with the Pilsner was my choise of hops: for unknown reasons I decided to hop it with Hallertauer Tradition instead of Saazer or Spalter or Mittelfrüh, as the recipe book suggested. Tradition is a nice hop with a lot of proper applications, but it's not an identical substitute to its noble ancestors Mittelfrüh and Saazer, and in this beer it tastes like a bit too clean and low in hop flavour. With the true noble hops, I'm used to have some hop flavour transferred to the final beer even from a single bitterning addition, while with Tradition that didn't occur: just bitterness remained (although a good smooth kind of bitterness). Even so, my another Danish Lager came out better than my German-style Lagery concoctions, again, and I wonder why. Danish malt being better than Weyermann's? Doubt it. I just don't know.

 

[Knox]

Great to see the results @Protos, I have long awaited them. I am happy you enjoyed my translations and interpretation of the beers.

Golding α4.3 (GBR) - dry hop, same weight as H. Mf. for the last 7 days of Lagerization.

That is my new favourite term!

I was surprised that I liked very much such a low hopping rate: almost twice as low as in my lowest-hopped Helles. I think in my next brews I might want to explore and reconsider my hopping preferences.

I have found that with noble hops, old American varities and classic British hops, low hopping rates often produce a more refined flavour. It is as if they intermingle better with the malts and the residual flavours the yeast might bring forth.

I must say that the Thor Lager does seem really good and beautifully clear!
Funny thing, I worked at the brewery that owns the brand for Thor. The brewery itself does not exist any more, it and a series of other breweries were closed down in the 90' and early 00'. Now Thor's lager is simply a variation of the brewery's main lager recipe.
As for the H. tradition hop choice, if I have to be honest, I think you picked a pretty representative hop that is appropriate of the time.

Looking forward to see some more beers from you!

 

[Protos]

Thank you Knox! Your recipes and advices and your introduction of the Wrisberg's book has been a great contribution to this forum.
The Danish recipes turned out to be a fantastic alternative, extremely useful when I'm getting a bit tired (never for long though) of my usual English/German diet but don't feel like getting lost in the catpissed fragrant jungles of the New World.
At the moment, I have a Skibsol bottle-conditioning, a Hvidtol lagering, a weak Skibsol planned, and a slew or already-calculated recipes to brew the next autumn.

Lagerization

That was translated from French

As for the H. tradition hop choice, if I have to be honest, I think you picked a pretty representative hop that is appropriate of the time.

I thought that Tradition was bred not earlier than in the 1990s? Wrisberg in his book recommends Mitt., Tett. or Saaz.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Wow, just discovered this thread. Pretty awesome. Gonna have to get some Viking malt and have a try.

@Knox Really interesting posts!

 

[Knox]

I thought that Tradition was bred not earlier than in the 1990s? Wrisberg in his book recommends Mitt., Tett. or Saaz.

I apologize for the late response! I didn't notice the question here at the bottom! You are right it was first commercially available in 1989, but I think the flavour and aroma profile is close to that of Saaz and Tettnanger, maybe a bit muted in comparison to the two of them. That is what I meant, the aroma and flavour profile is representative of the time.

Wow, just discovered this thread. Pretty awesome. Gonna have to get some Viking malt and have a try.

@Knox Really interesting posts!

Tell us which you want to try!

 

[J.Miller]

My Bitterøl brew ingredients and results: 48% Bestmalz Munich 6°L, 48% Bestmalz Pilsner 2°L, 4% Roasted Barley 550°L, 16 IBU of Spalter Select (60 min.), 3 IBU of Mittlefrueh (5 min.), 75ppm Ca, 3 Mg,
28 Na, 80 Cl, 85 So, 67 HCO, S-33 yeast. Mash: 152°F 60 min., 170°F 5 min. + sparge, mash pH 5.61. Boil: 60 min. , post-boil pH 5.47, O.G. 1.047. Fermentation: 58°F 8 days, 62°F 1 day, 65°F 5 days, 39°F 3 days, F.G. 1.017 apparent attenuation 63%, abv 3.9%, post-fermentation pH 4.48, SRM 21 to 25 (I guess), kegged at ±2.4 vol. co2, aged at about 58°F in keg for 4 weeks (ran out of room in my keezer) before tasting. Aroma and taste: roasted barley and munich aromas, very clear, slight head and lacing, I am really pleased with the medium body and mouthfeel (for 3.9% abv), medium roasty and medium malty sweet tasting. My taste perception is, well, I'll never be a beer judge, but I like how the Bitterøl turned out. I intended to brew a Dobbelt Bitterøl, but I'm ok with it.

Jeff

 

[Miraculix]

@Kristoffer84 these seem to be your kind of beers!

 

[Knox]

My Bitterøl brew ingredients and results: 48% Bestmalz Munich 6°L, 48% Bestmalz Pilsner 2°L, 4% Roasted Barley 550°L, 16 IBU of Spalter Select (60 min.), 3 IBU of Mittlefrueh (5 min.), 75ppm Ca, 3 Mg,
28 Na, 80 Cl, 85 So, 67 HCO, S-33 yeast. Mash: 152°F 60 min., 170°F 5 min. + sparge, mash pH 5.61. Boil: 60 min. , post-boil pH 5.47, O.G. 1.047. Fermentation: 58°F 8 days, 62°F 1 day, 65°F 5 days, 39°F 3 days, F.G. 1.017 apparent attenuation 63%, abv 3.9%, post-fermentation pH 4.48, SRM 21 to 25 (I guess), kegged at ±2.4 vol. co2, aged at about 58°F in keg for 4 weeks (ran out of room in my keezer) before tasting. Aroma and taste: roasted barley and munich aromas, very clear, slight head and lacing, I am really pleased with the medium body and mouthfeel (for 3.9% abv), medium roasty and medium malty sweet tasting. My taste perception is, well, I'll never be a beer judge, but I like how the Bitterøl turned out. I intended to brew a Dobbelt Bitterøl, but I'm ok with it.

Jeff

Hey Jeff,
Happy to see you tried out the Bitterøl, and hey, having a small beer is always great to have on tap.
To me Bitterøl have always felt a bit like a small bock mixed with a traditional stout.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Long boring story short, my niece teaches in an international school in Lithuania. Whilst not able to acquire authentic Lithuanian farmhouse yeast, I got the next best thing being Lithuanian dry bread yeast. Seems to me it should be something decent to try with these Danish legacy recipes. What think you?

I just saw this recipe on MoreBeer for Finnish Sahti: Sahti Malt - Viking Malt | MoreBeer
What about using Viking Sahti malt for the Danish traditional recipes? Anyone tried that?

My Finland collogues had these comments tonight:

1. I have too much experience on Sahti from my college years. it was cost efficient and fairly ok
   
2. There is a famous recipe known by the college students that is related to how to make Sahti taste ok. So you buy 6 packs of these: Amazon.com : 4 Boxes x 36g of Leaf Sisu Xylitol - Original - Finnish - Licorice - Pastilles - Lozenges - Drops - Dragees - Candies - Sweets : Grocery & Gourmet Food
3. Really good Sahti is ok, medium quality beer is always better than best Sahti
4. Lithuanian yeast could be almost the same, we share a lot with Lithuania when it comes to drinking habits
   

 

[Protos]

If you have connections with Lithuania, I may suggest to try to procure from there, besides local yeasts, another unique local thing: Lithuanian Red Fermented Rye Malt.
It's not like any other malt. Very strong Pumpernickel bready flavour, like Melanoidin malt on steroids, but not exactly the same flavour as in Melanoidin.
Up to 4% of it in any Roggenbier make wonders. And adding 8% to a 10% ABV Roggenwein (like I recently did) makes you immortal.
I think it won't be out of place in a Sahti too (though the Finnish Sahti Special Rye Blend is different from Lithuanian Fermented Rye).

 

[Miraculix]

Long boring story short, my niece teaches in an international school in Lithuania. Whilst not able to acquire authentic Lithuanian farmhouse yeast, I got the next best thing being Lithuanian dry bread yeast. Seems to me it should be something decent to try with these Danish legacy recipes. What think you?

I just saw this recipe on MoreBeer for Finnish Sahti: Sahti Malt - Viking Malt | MoreBeer
What about using Viking Sahti malt for the Danish traditional recipes? Anyone tried that?

My Finland collogues had these comments tonight:

1. I have too much experience on Sahti from my college years. it was cost efficient and fairly ok
   
2. There is a famous recipe known by the college students that is related to how to make Sahti taste ok. So you buy 6 packs of these: Amazon.com : 4 Boxes x 36g of Leaf Sisu Xylitol - Original - Finnish - Licorice - Pastilles - Lozenges - Drops - Dragees - Candies - Sweets : Grocery & Gourmet Food
3. Really good Sahti is ok, medium quality beer is always better than best Sahti
4. Lithuanian yeast could be almost the same, we share a lot with Lithuania when it comes to drinking habits
   

Sounds disguuuuuuusting

 

[Miraculix]

If you have connections with Lithuania, I may suggest to try to procure from there, besides local yeasts, another unique local thing: Lithuanian Red Fermented Rye Malt.
It's not like any other malt. Very strong Pumpernickel bready flavour, like Melanoidin malt on steroids, but not exactly the same flavour as in Melanoidin.
Up to 4% of it in any Roggenbier make wonders. And adding 8% to a 10% ABV Roggenwein (like I recently did) makes you immortal.
I think it won't be out of place in a Sahti too (though the Finnish Sahti Special Rye Blend is different from Lithuanian Fermented Rye).

Wow that sounds super interesting. No online sources for that?

 

[Protos]

I don't know really if it's sold online, I got mine "offline". I think a very similar malt could be found in German baking stores, as Fermented Rye Malt is often used in baking Schwarzbrot. Don't know how it's called in German, though. In Lithuanian it's Fermentuotas Ruginis Salyklas.

 

[Knox]

Long boring story short, my niece teaches in an international school in Lithuania. Whilst not able to acquire authentic Lithuanian farmhouse yeast, I got the next best thing being Lithuanian dry bread yeast. Seems to me it should be something decent to try with these Danish legacy recipes. What think you?

I just saw this recipe on MoreBeer for Finnish Sahti: Sahti Malt - Viking Malt | MoreBeer
What about using Viking Sahti malt for the Danish traditional recipes? Anyone tried that?

I think the Lithuanian bread yeast would work fine in a gammeltøl or a daily beer as provided by Sørine. As long it doesn't provide too many banana-y flavours. I have read many notes from newspapers and brewing logs that banana aroma or flavour wasn't well recieved by the Danish public.

I was unable to find anything about the Sahti Malt, other then it is a malt blend. Do you know what it contains?

 

[Protos]

Sahti malt is actually a blend of a darker-shade Pale and I believe no more than 10-15% Dark Rye malt (toasted, not pre-fermented). I've tasted the real thing and tried to recreate it at home. Bleh, in both cases, to tell the truth.
Here's what I followed to make me some Finnish Dark Rye when I was blending my own Sahti malt: Toasting Rye Malt - Brewing Nordic

 

[Knox]

Sahti malt is actually a blend of a darker-shade Pale and I believe no more than 10-15% Dark Rye malt (toasted, not pre-fermented). I've tasted the real thing and tried to recreate it at home. Bleh, in both cases, to tell the truth.
Here's what I followed to make me some Finnish Dark Rye when I was blending my own Sahti malt: Toasting Rye Malt - Brewing Nordic

Sounds like they butched some batches and made a product out of it. Nothing too surprising, I have been to their Danish site and one of their production leads asked if I was interested in taking some 120 EBC munich (Not really munich at that point is it now) off their hands, their thermostate broke while kilning the malt, a full 30 ton batch :') I wonder if some of that went into that Sahti Malt?

 

[Protos]

That well could be. Artisanal/rustic/farmhouse malts are such a thing: no established standards, no benchmarks to judge along, no experienced discernable customer base - so you may call "artisanal" any kitchensink mix and go well with it.
Nothing bad to say about the Viking Sahti malt itself, though: it's a nice cute little blend, if I get my hands on it again, I'd brew a Saison with it. In Sahti, I didnt like not the malt but the boozy cidery green flavour which the raw, unboiled, hop-less, bread-yeast-fermented raw ale had plenty. I don't know, maybe if I'd been drinking it since I was seven years old, I'd probably like it. Otherwise, it's an acquired taste, to say politely. YMMV.

 

[kmarkstevens]

@Protos Thanks, you've just saved me an order at MoreBeer. I'll just substitute and use the Lithuanian bread yeast.

Did anyone else notice that Viking Malt cost has increased about a dollar a pound sometime in 2022? It used to be much cheaper than other malts on MoreBeer, and now it's priced in line with all other malts. Not sure if it's related to the Russian invasion or just a change in the product positioning?

 

[Protos]

Months before the Russian invasion I've heard rumours on forthcoming rise of prices on Barley in Europe because of dwindling growing areas, bad crops and the planned famine in Europe scheduled by the New Normality reptiloids on the next year. So I hoarded me some malts, which I think was a wise thing to do.

Alternatively, in Viking case that may be just the change of source. F.ex. instead of cheaper batches made in Poland the seller might switch to Swedish or Danish batches: same type, higher price. I don't know though, if Viking do really differentiate their prices depending on the country of manufacture... If not, then it's reptiloids the beginning of the long-foreseen global Barley price jump.
Hoard, and you won't regret it.

 

[McMullan]

Reptiloid shareholders and sovereign greed funds are demanding COVID dividends across the board mainly. I hoarded several sacks of malted barley early in the pandemic. Ended up with a weevil and his extended family making themselves at home and pleasing themselves without any concern for my feelings. So I hung the offending sack outside for a few days, when it was -15*C. If hoarding, be aware of the risks of exasperating shortages, increasing prices therefore feeding reptiloids even more dividends.

 

[Protos]

That's sound.
Each extra buck you spend on your malt tomorrow will feed you can guess whom. So hoard now.

Weevils, I went the opposite direction: I toasted my malt in the oven for a minute (not enough to alter the flavour but enough to kill off the bugs), sieved the dead weevils away and packed the malt in large airtight containers. Lotta work, but I hope the heat cleared it not just of the weevils but also of all other microlife, fungi included. So I hope the hoarded malt will stay good for longer than just usual out-of-the-store malt.

 

[Knox]

Did anyone else notice that Viking Malt cost has increased about a dollar a pound sometime in 2022?

Malt prices in general has gone up. At work we have seen an increase of 50-65% in price across the mass manufacturers. Castle, Weyermann and Viking.

in Viking case that may be just the change of source. F.ex. instead of cheaper batches made in Poland the seller might switch to Swedish or Danish batches: same type, higher price.

When I was at their Danish site, the before mentioned production lead and I were talking, he mentioned they couldn't get enough malt for the rest of the year. They had bought every grain they could in Denmark, Sweden, Lithuania and Poland. The harvest has been very bad last year which is what we are feeling now.

 

[McMullan]

It's worse than a poor season. Demand has spiked without adequate supply chains. A perfect storm.

 

[ba-brewer]

This is my RABESHAVE LAGERØL from post 51 Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868

It started at 1057 and ended at 1015 and about 20IBUs. I have to say this is one of the sweetest beer I have made. The first sip always seems the most sweet then tastes bud get over the shock and it is less noticeable. For having a fairly high final gravity it does not seem too heavy, actually drinks pretty easy.

 

[Knox]

This is my RABESHAVE LAGERØL from post 51 Danish Farmhouse Ale - 2 recipes from 1868
View attachment 768647

It started at 1057 and ended at 1015 and about 20IBUs. I have to say this is one of the sweetest beer I have made. The first sip always seems the most sweet then tastes bud get over the shock and it is less noticeable. For having a fairly high final gravity it does not seem too heavy, actually drinks pretty easy.

First of all, what a beauty! The colour is really spot on. We often call this slightly darker then Pilsner lagers for Classics here in Denmark.

I am surprised of the slightly high finishing gravity. But I can see it is a 72% attenuation rate, so it fits with the data sheet of the yeast. As for the lightness, a protein step can do wonders.

How is the flavour profile other then sweet?

 

[ba-brewer]

First of all, what a beauty! The colour is really spot on. We often call this slightly darker then Pilsner lagers for Classics here in Denmark.

I am surprised of the slightly high finishing gravity. But I can see it is a 72% attenuation rate, so it fits with the data sheet of the yeast. As for the lightness, a protein step can do wonders.

How is the flavour profile other then sweet?

I generally get closer to 75% attenuation with WY2042 but have also had attenuations about 72% a few times. I had made the starter then let it for about a month before using the yeast so that might have something to do with. I used the yeast cake for a Thor lager but because I move it to the keg to naturally carb I don't if the second pitch attenuated better.

I did do a protein rest on the beer, but I used a RIMS system instead of decoction. I did add melanoidin malt to compensate.

Aroma of the beer is pretty clean, no sulfur but a slight apple aroma. I don't think I have noticed the apple aroma from this yeast before but I almost always have some late hops in my beers so that could of masked it in the past. Slight boozy aroma if the beer is allowed to warm, I serve at about 42 to 45F.

Flavor is clean, apple in the aroma does not show up on the tongue. There is a graininess to the flavor but the sweetness makes it hard for me to detect or get a clear classification of the flavor. I will need to do more sampling to figure it out, but the graininess is more of a raw grain flavor vs a baked bread or cracker type flavor.

 

[kmarkstevens]

I apologize for the late response! I didn't notice the question here at the bottom! You are right it was first commercially available in 1989, but I think the flavour and aroma profile is close to that of Saaz and Tettnanger, maybe a bit muted in comparison to the two of them. That is what I meant, the aroma and flavour profile is representative of the time.

Tell us which you want to try!

Looking at the THOR LAGERØL
20L
3.5# munich light
3.5# lager
.5# Crystal 60
6oz melanoidum
Tettnanger and/or middlefruh (I've got english hops as well)
Lithuanian bread yeast
OG1042
FG1015?

Q: what should the IBU be? I know it's low. Or what should the BU:GU ratio be around? BU:GU 0.50
Q: FG should be around what? 1015? 1012? I don't want something overly sweet but still try hit the spirit of the style. God knows what the Lithuanian bread yeast will ferment out to. If it's high, I can always finish the ferment, and then hit it with second yeast to get down to a target FG.

FYI, Chris White/White Labs did a recent podcast with Brad Smith where he started extolling the virtues of multiple yeast strains pitched at once. Any homebrewing yeast head has done that for years.