Crabapples?

[tf2]

I was at an orchard this weekend, and in among the regular trees was a single crabapple tree absolutely bursting with ripe red fruit. I tasted one, and it was sour and astringent but tasty. They sold apples by the bag, and those crabapples filled the gaps between the larger ones nicely.

I haven’t weighed them yet, but does anyone have any experience using them with cider or mead? I assume it’s like other fruit — chop or grind and put into primary fermentation? Or should I think about it more?

 

[dmtaylor]

The juice and the finished cider will have that spicy astringent zip. I really like it. About 5-10% crabapples can be a great addition to ANY cider, or go crazy and use way more. Enjoy.

 

[Maylar]

juice them, like apples.

 

[tf2]

Fantastic. Thanks! The books I have (mostly ancient, from when I was last actively brewing 20 years ago, or before) all talk about peptic enzyme being a must with crabapples, if they mention them at all. True?

And if I’m combining bought (but local) cider and honey with these crabapples, do I need to worry about yeast nutrient or tannin? I assume the crabs take care of the astringency, but I’ve only ever made one batch of (dry) mead.

 

[Maylar]

Nutrient yes, especially if you make cyser - honey has no nutrients. Don't the crabs bring tannins to the party?

 

[corkybstewart]

I was at an orchard this weekend, and in among the regular trees was a single crabapple tree absolutely bursting with ripe red fruit. I tasted one, and it was sour and astringent but tasty. They sold apples by the bag, and those crabapples filled the gaps between the larger ones nicely.

I haven’t weighed them yet, but does anyone have any experience using them with cider or mead? I assume it’s like other fruit — chop or grind and put into primary fermentation? Or should I think about it more?

I won best of show with my crabapple brett beer a few years ago, using a Belgian blonde beer as a base and adding 10 pounds of crabapples and a yeast starter I made from a variety of brett beers in secondary. I also used my crabapples in cider, but if I didn't blend them with sweeter apples it came out too astringent and tart. When my neighbor sold his place I didn't have access to free apples so my cider brewing ended

 

[dmtaylor]

I don't use pectic enzyme or nutrients in my ciders and they turn out great. Crabapples contain plenty of tannin, that's the source of the astringency, so you don't need any additional tannin either. Keep it simple, that's my motto with cider.

 

[WTPooh]

I just made a delicious cider using 1.25 gallons crab apple juice 3.75 gallons wild apple juice. I added potassium metabisulfite and pectic enzyme after we pressed. Waited 24 hrs then pitched the yeast. 1 month later I have this.

 

[JAReeves]

I secondaried a 10% wheat wine on 6# of peeled and diced crabapples. After 6 months of aging on the fruit, it is tannic, but complex and fascinating; especially because I also added the wild cultures we have built up from our wine grapes. I am looking forward to seeing how this ages.

 

[tf2]

These all sound great, thanks! How long do I leave the list on the fruit? And is it normal for the crabapples to be bleached out (no color)? I assume it’s like cooking, the color comes out of the ingredient and goes into the liquid.

 

[Chalkyt]

Going off on a slight tangent since we are talking about Crab Apples... My relatively new (5yo) Crimson Knight Crab Apple produced a good crop this year but fruited well before the other apples. I left them on the tree until I started making cider but by then the crabs had started to go a bit dry and powdery and were showing some signs of going mouldy. So, although I had a lot of fruit, there wasn't much that I could use... only about 10% in one or two batches.

Has anyone tried freezing crabs? i.e. picking them at the right time then freezing them until the other apples are ready then thawing and mixing with the others for grinding.

 

[z-bob]

Going off on a slight tangent since we are talking about Crab Apples... My relatively new (5yo) Crimson Knight Crab Apple produced a good crop this year but fruited well before the other apples. I left them on the tree until I started making cider but by then the crabs had started to go a bit dry and powdery and were showing some signs of going mouldy. So, although I had a lot of fruit, there wasn't much that I could use... only about 10% in one or two batches.

Has anyone tried freezing crabs? i.e. picking them at the right time then freezing them until the other apples are ready then thawing and mixing with the others for grinding.

I freeze crabapples to use for making jelly. They freeze just fine but get mushy, so it depends how you juice them. If you use an apple grinder, frozen crabapples probably won't work. I either boil them or use a steam extractor.

 

[docbot]

I don't think it is fair to generalize about crabapples in cider. I have been using variety Dolgo for several years. It is a sharp-sweet. As a varietal cider it is pretty much undrinkable due to high acidity, but at 10-20% it perks up otherwise flaccid blends. I also have variety Chestnut, which I think I would classify as a 'sweet', not particularly acidic and not particularly tannic. I have several Wickson crabs the yield high sugar, and I would call the bittersweet Dabinett a crab based on fruit size (for me ca. 2"=5cm). Some of the crabs (especially Dolgo) ripen too early (August). I don't like pressing juice in August or September because it only takes the hornets about 15 minutes to discover me. If I have freezer capacity I like to hold them 'til cooler October days to press with the other apples. Once my youngish trees start producing, I look forward to a cider with Wickson and Chestnut base, doped up with tannins and acid from Dabinett and Dolgo. Attached photo is Dolgo in mid/late August (Northern Lower Michigan, Zone 6B).

 

[madscientist451]

Has anyone tried freezing crabs? i.e. picking them at the right time then freezing them until the other apples are ready then thawing and mixing with the others for grinding.

The frozen apples will turn to mush if you try to grind them. Hold off freezing until they are fully ripe and then thaw and put in the press whole. Note that some will press and other will need to go in again. The same process works well with ripe pears.
You can also try partially thawing them and getting an ice cider juice, but that works better with full size apples.

 

[JAReeves]

I peeled, quartered and cored the crabapples then froze them for the wheat wine, hoping for cell walls to burst. Next time I will leave the peels and if I can thrash them into pieces and/or press them, I would prefer that. With fruit, I normally don't see any significant difference in flavor between fresh or frozen, but frozen usually gives more juice.

 

[Kees]

@Chalkyt: why don't you make crab apple cider and add it to the cider you make later on?

 

[corkybstewart]

I peeled, quartered and cored the crabapples then froze them for the wheat wine, hoping for cell walls to burst. Next time I will leave the peels and if I can thrash them into pieces and/or press them, I would prefer that. With fruit, I normally don't see any significant difference in flavor between fresh or frozen, but frozen usually gives more juice.

I pull the stems off, throw in a starsan bath for a couple of minutes, rinse, drain, freeze, thaw, toss in the fermenter when the beer is nearly at FG.

 

[mashpaddled]

@docbot has the right commentary here. Crabapples are as or more varied than culinary apples. They range from slightly bitter or acidic but edible as a handfruit to bitter, sharp, or bittersharp, suitable for cider and other processed culinary purposes. Some will work fine in a cider but others will need blending or backsweetening. If you're used to buying culinary apples and pressing them to make juice you might find those crabapples make something rather different from what you're used to. Give it a try and see what you get. If you find the crabapple cider is too sour or bitter you can always press some culinary apples and make another batch to blend in.

 

[z-bob]

I pull the stems off, throw in a starsan bath for a couple of minutes, rinse, drain, freeze, thaw, toss in the fermenter when the beer is nearly at FG.

That sounds like a lot of work for the stems, but more power to ya. (what do you do with the apples?)

 

[corkybstewart]

That sounds like a lot of work for the stems, but more power to ya. (what do you do with the apples?)

Brett beers(with a Belgian blonde base beer) or ciders.

 

[z-bob]

Brett beers(with a Belgian blonde base beer) or ciders.

Sorry, that was a dumb joke on my part. (interpreting your post as if all you were using was the stems)

 

[corkybstewart]

Sorry, that was a dumb joke on my part. (interpreting your post as if all you were using was the stems)

And it's 11pm here and I started drinking 12 hours ago. Took a 4 hour break but now I'm drinking my bedtime Scotch so I missed it completely