Cold Crash CO2

[Denis2121]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question.

I just brewed my 3rd AG batch on 28/01, Cherry Saison. Recipe attached.

This is the first time i didnt use a starter. I am fermenting in a bucket using a blowoff tube and DIY co2 harvester kit. Picture attached. Its a blowoff tube going into jar 1 with 1.5l of sanitiser. During fermentation that starsan is pushed out to jar 2. Purpose is for when cold crashing, only co2 harvested is sucked back. First time using this.

My issue is that i did see krausen next day and yeast swimming around however no bubbles. Everything looks sealed on tight. I did use blowoff before and bubbled just fine.

My question is, if no bubbles and starsan not being pushed out to jar2, if i go to cold crash, will i suck back all the star san ?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[RM-MN]

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question.

I just brewed my 3rd AG batch on 28/01, Cherry Saison. Recipe attached.

This is the first time i didnt use a starter. I am fermenting in a bucket using a blowoff tube and DIY co2 harvester kit. Picture attached. Its a blowoff tube going into jar 1 with 1.5l of sanitiser. During fermentation that starsan is pushed out to jar 2. Purpose is for when cold crashing, only co2 harvested is sucked back. First time using this.

My issue is that i did see krausen next day and yeast swimming around however no bubbles. Everything looks sealed on tight. I did use blowoff before and bubbled just fine.

My question is, if no bubbles and starsan not being pushed out to jar2, if i go to cold crash, will i suck back all the star san ?

Thanks for any advice.

Bucket lids are notorious for leaking. Yours may seal better than most but...with the blowoff going into 1.5L of StarSan there may be enough pressure required to push that out that the bucket lid leaks anyway.

You probably won't suck back all the StarSan, just enough to make you wish you had forgotten about harvesting CO2.

To make the harvesting system work well you probably need to use a carboy or something equivalent so you don't get any leakage.

 

[hotbeer]

Suck back will depend on how much headspace there is in your FV and the diameter of your tubing for the blow off tube. You might see my comments on it in this thread, particularly reply #6...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ure-control-from-sucking.724912/post-10218298
Even the threaded lid with a seal leaks on my FV. I don't make hoppy beers and don't dry hop so I've not noticed an issue with it.

Your beer doesn't appear to be a hoppy beer either.

 

[mac_1103]

I never have any trouble with my fermentation buckets attached to a CO2 harvesting system (although I don't use the one pictured). I mean, I'm sure the lids do leak some, but they always seem to seal well enough that the path thru the krausen catcher and harvester (and ultimately to a blow off tube in a jug of starsan) is the path of least resistance. I don't think there's anything special about my buckets. One is an old wine bucket that has an o-ring in the lid, but the other two are just bottling buckets with standard snap on lids. The lids are a pain to get on and off, and I'm sure that they will eventually deform and stop sealing.

Since it's only day two, have you tried taking the harvester out of the loop and just putting a blow-off tube or an airlock in? Might help you to isolate the leak.

 

[Denis2121]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

So i decided to go back to S airlock to see will that change anything. I also bumped up the temp. by 1C. I could see some bubbles, very little though. Loads if i push on the lid gently. Again, looks pretty tight to me. Even tried spraying some sanitiser around it to look for leaks but no luck. Starting to wonder if it could be the bung is a bit loose. Will inspect more once transferrimg to secondary on top of the cherries.

It makes sense about the pressure not being strong enough with either a leak in the sealing or with the amount of pressure it would need to push that much solution out to next jar. I tried blowing into the tube and it does require a pretty hard blow to get it moving.

At this point i might just forget about cold crashing. Wouldnt like to infect the batch, those cherries were not cheap !

Since its a saison with wheat characteristics, i might get away with some haze.

 

[scrap iron]

It's not necessary to have the star san in the first jar past the fermenter to be pushed out. I put the sanitizer in the last jar that also has an airlock. The oxygen in the first jar is pushed out and fills with co2 during fermentation. During the cold crash the co2 in the first jar is drawn back in the fermenter and the sanitizer in the second jar can be drawn into the first if you crash quickly.If set up right no sanitizer can be drawn into the fermenter. I use 1/2 gal jars for more capacity and slow the crash to 5 degrees per day and the suck back of sanitizer is minimal or not at all noticeable. I might add I use a SS bucket fermenter. If you are not sure about the seal on your bucket, I would avoid the cold crash until you are sure its sealed up good.

 

[Denis2121]

It's not necessary to have the star san in the first jar past the fermenter to be pushed out. I put the sanitizer in the last jar that also has an airlock. The oxygen in the first jar is pushed out and fills with co2 during fermentation. During the cold crash the co2 in the first jar is drawn back in the fermenter and the sanitizer in the second jar can be drawn into the first if you crash quickly.If set up right no sanitizer can be drawn into the fermenter. I use 1/2 gal jars for more capacity and slow the crash to 5 degrees per day and the suck back of sanitizer is minimal or not at all noticeable. I might add I use a SS bucket fermenter. If you are not sure about the seal on your bucket, I would avoid the cold crash until you are sure its sealed up good.

You are 100% correct. I had it set up wrong (Amateur). See image of what it looks like now. Its day 4 so I assume fermentation would be quite now with this yeast strain from what i read but ill see if it works once i transfer to secondary bucket on top of fruit.

 

[scrap iron]

That looks right in your picture. You might get a couple of large [1/2 gal] jars like used for canning to up the capacity for co2. I see you are in Ireland, I'm of Irish and English ancestry with a little Spanish mixed in. Welcome to the forum.

 

[hotbeer]

Don't get too enamored with bubbles from the FV. They don't mean anything.

Sure, they are nice and fun to watch. But they don't tell you the things you need to know.

 

[IslandLizard]

Don't get too enamored with bubbles from the FV. They don't mean anything.

Isn't it the lack of bubbles not meaning anything?

 

[hotbeer]

Isn't it the lack of bubbles not meaning anything?

Yes, that's a better way to put it.

But even when you have them, they may not be from the production of CO2. They might also be temperature changes or atmospheric pressure changes affecting the expansion of gas in the headspace or making the beer throw off dissolved CO2 that it can't contain because of the liquid temperature.

 

[Denis2121]

Hey guys ! Just a quick follow up. Followed sanitising steps, transfered to secondary (autosiphon worked fine when pumping starsan through it then decided to stop working propeŕy when transfering to secondary. Got a few bubbles here and there. Did i ruin the batch ?) and its bubbling away.

 

[Denis2121]

Just to add, gravity was at 1.009. Expected is 1.007

 

[Jaybird]

Just to add, gravity was at 1.009. Expected is 1.007

Sounds like you are well on your way. Thank you for linking one of my products! We always like seeing our stuff here on HBT.

Cheers
Jay

 

[RM-MN]

For best results it's most important to prevent your (hoppy) beer from air (oxygen) exposure after fermentation has started, as well as during packaging.

Hey guys ! Just a quick follow up. Followed sanitising steps, transfered to secondary (autosiphon worked fine when pumping starsan through it then decided to stop working propeŕy when transfering to secondary. Got a few bubbles here and there. Did i ruin the batch ?) and its bubbling away.

The two quotes are from different threads but are quite well linked. If you were making a pale ale, IPA or a hazy IPA the bit of oxygen you got while siphoning would be detrimental. However, you are making a Saison and the oxygen won't have a great effect on that for quite a while but will eventually lead to staling, perhaps not enough to notice in your beer unless you got quite a bit of bubbles.

 

[Denis2121]

The two quotes are from different threads but are quite well linked. If you were making a pale ale, IPA or a hazy IPA the bit of oxygen you got while siphoning would be detrimental. However, you are making a Saison and the oxygen won't have a great effect on that for quite a while but will eventually lead to staling, perhaps not enough to notice in your beer unless you got quite a bit of bubbles.

Thanks for the reply. The bubbles were a bit here and there. I got a flow for a while then stopped and so on multiple times. I hope that any oxygen i might have introduced because of the pumping will get eaten up by the yeast that started working on the sugar from them cherries.

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for the reply. The bubbles were a bit here and there. I got a flow for a while then stopped and so on multiple times. I hope that any oxygen i might have introduced because of the pumping will get eaten up by the yeast that started working on the sugar from them cherries.

Hopefully not too bad...
Alternatively, you could just add fruit to the primary vessel. Using secondaries is usually not needed (with beer), unless you're bulk aging for a long time, longer than 2-4 months.

Many brewers will ditch the autosiphon after a while and get a regular (stainless) racking cane. Or just use the center tube as one, even cutting the rubber valve off the bottom. There are a few ways to prime a cane.

If you want to continue using the autosiphon store the 2 pieces separated. The plunger/valve deforms and becomes leaky when stored inside the outer tube. You can pre-prime the autosiphon in Starsan, then when racking the beer, discard the first few ounces until it's all beer coming out.

You may want to train yourself using a bucket of water or Starsan to find/develop the right method, before using it on precious beer.