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Slim M

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Been thinking about doing a Czech lager this winter so I’m doing my homework now. One thing I noticed is according to the Budvar site there are only 22 ibu in the flag ship beer. I always considered it to be a Czech pils but bjcp listed like a 30 ibu minimum for this style. Curious what is Budvar classified as or what do you consider it to be?
 
I live in CZ. I am not sure what Budvar IBUs are but to me it has always been on the sweet side, and for that reason I usually try to avoid it. For me a Czech pilnser will have a bitter, peppery bite to it and I just don't get that from Budvar (even fresh from the local area). So perhaps a 22 ibu is correct - if that is what you are going for.

Incidentally, they have recently released budvar 33 which is being advertised as "their first bitter lager." I have not tried this. You can google Budvar 33 if are interested in more... I believe they share the recipe on there (but it is probably different than the original you are chasing)
 
Slim M said:
Been thinking about doing a Czech lager this winter so I’m doing my homework now. One thing I noticed is according to the Budvar site there are only 22 ibu in the flag ship beer. I always considered it to be a Czech pils but bjcp listed like a 30 ibu minimum for this style. Curious what is Budvar classified as or what do you consider it to be?
Click to expand...
Not everyone agrees with BJCP dogma. Also, IBU is just a number and your perception of bitterness may be different. Brew what you want and make adjustments to fit what you like.
 
madscientist451 said:
Not everyone agrees with BJCP dogma. Also, IBU is just a number and your perception of bitterness may be different. Brew what you want and make adjustments to fit what you like.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s my intention. I totally agree with the dogma statement. Budvar has been around long before bjcp I bet😊
 
Velnerj said:
I live in CZ. I am not sure what Budvar IBUs are but to me it has always been on the sweet side, and for that reason I usually try to avoid it. For me a Czech pilnser will have a bitter, peppery bite to it and I just don't get that from Budvar (even fresh from the local area). So perhaps a 22 ibu is correct - if that is what you are going for.

Incidentally, they have recently released budvar 33 which is being advertised as "their first bitter lager." I have not tried this. You can google Budvar 33 if are interested in more... I believe they share the recipe on there (but it is probably different than the original you are chasing)
Click to expand...
Velnerj thanks for the info. Yeah the site state 22 ibu with 3 hop additions during the boil I believe. I like Budvar & Urquel both but sadly have never had fresh versions most likely due to location. Wish they would stop the green bottle thing.
 
I was at the
Slim M said:
Velnerj thanks for the info. Yeah the site state 22 ibu with 3 hop additions during the boil I believe. I like Budvar & Urquel both but sadly have never had fresh versions most likely due to location. Wish they would stop the green bottle thing.
Click to expand...
I was at the Pilsner Urquell Brewery and asked about the green glass bottles. They told me it was due to USA demanding that imported beers come in green bottles to differentiate from the domestic beers (this happened back in the 80s I believe). Originally Pilsenr Urquell was in brown bottles (if you watch some old CZ films you can see this), but because they were already too deep in having green bottles in circulation it wouldn't be cost effective to switch back...As the bottles in CZ are on deposit and returnable. Living in CZ it isn't such an issue as it's consumed before skunking happens, but having Urquell in the States is usually a game of Czech Roulette. One tip I heard is to look for Urquell in a can, that will solve the skunking issue.
 
Velnerj said:
I was at the

I was at the Pilsner Urquell Brewery and asked about the green glass bottles. They told me it was due to USA demanding that imported beers come in green bottles to differentiate from the domestic beers (this happened back in the 80s I believe). Originally Pilsenr Urquell was in brown bottles (if you watch some old CZ films you can see this), but because they were already too deep in having green bottles in circulation it wouldn't be cost effective to switch back...As the bottles in CZ are on deposit and returnable. Living in CZ it isn't such an issue as it's consumed before skunking happens, but having Urquell in the States is usually a game of Czech Roulette. One tip I heard is to look for Urquell in a can, that will solve the skunking issue.
Click to expand...

Pilsner Urquell is in brown glass bottles today. This is a good thing. But due to transportation and age, it is still hard to find a fresh example.

I do not think there was ever a requirement for import beers to be in green bottles.
 
Thanks Witherby I actually read that very article yesterday it’s what prompted me to go check the IBU of the 2 beers named. I enjoy them both and may make attempts at them both. I wonder how close the 2 yeast are.
 
Slim M said:
Velnerj thanks for the info. Yeah the site state 22 ibu with 3 hop additions during the boil I believe. I like Budvar & Urquel both but sadly have never had fresh versions most likely due to location. Wish they would stop the green bottle thing.
Click to expand...
I’ve never understood why some breweries use green or clear bottles. At this point they should all know better, the information has been available a long time now.
 
Velnerj said:
I was at the Pilsner Urquell Brewery and asked about the green glass bottles. They told me it was due to USA demanding that imported beers come in green bottles to differentiate from the domestic beers (this happened back in the 80s I believe). Originally Pilsenr Urquell was in brown bottles (if you watch some old CZ films you can see this), but because they were already too deep in having green bottles in circulation it wouldn't be cost effective to switch back...As the bottles in CZ are on deposit and returnable. Living in CZ it isn't such an issue as it's consumed before skunking happens, but having Urquell in the States is usually a game of Czech Roulette. One tip I heard is to look for Urquell in a can, that will solve the skunking issue.
Click to expand...

This goes back to the 1960s (maybe even earlier). Green bottles were put in use by some of the mid-twentieth century importers to make the beer stand out and remind people of champagne bottles so they could charge a premium on the imported beer. (I might be wrong but I believe Heineken came up with this.) Otherwise it wouldn't be profitable for stores to pay the higher cost of imported beer than something they could buy domestic. Importers liked it and a lot of breweries then followed suit so they could get into the market. The more beer they sold that needed to go in green bottles the more it made sense to only buy one color of glass.
 
Slim M said:
Been thinking about doing a Czech lager this winter so I’m doing my homework now. One thing I noticed is according to the Budvar site there are only 22 ibu in the flag ship beer. I always considered it to be a Czech pils but bjcp listed like a 30 ibu minimum for this style. Curious what is Budvar classified as or what do you consider it to be?
Click to expand...

Just another example of why the BJCP is a poor reference. Up until fairly recently the BJCP decided there was one "right" set of attributes for pretty much every style. You could see where they picked their favorite beer in a style and that became the singular guide for the entire style. It's gotten better with some styles but they haven't completely abandoned it, especially for these regional styles. Budvar might be stylistically less like most other Czech pilsners but to say it and others like it aren't Czech pilsners is completely disconnected from reality.
 
mashpaddled said:
This goes back to the 1960s (maybe even earlier). Green bottles were put in use by some of the mid-twentieth century importers to make the beer stand out and remind people of champagne bottles so they could charge a premium on the imported beer. (I might be wrong but I believe Heineken came up with this.) Otherwise it wouldn't be profitable for stores to pay the higher cost of imported beer than something they could buy domestic. Importers liked it and a lot of breweries then followed suit so they could get into the market. The more beer they sold that needed to go in green bottles the more it made sense to only buy one color of glass.
Click to expand...
Think your right about this & Heineken being the first. Heineken also designed square bottles so they could be reused as bricks for housing in underdeveloped countries or something. Don’t believe me? Google it😊. Don’t think this lasted long.
 
mashpaddled said:
This goes back to the 1960s (maybe even earlier). Green bottles were put in use by some of the mid-twentieth century importers to make the beer stand out and remind people of champagne bottles so they could charge a premium on the imported beer.
Click to expand...
Here's another explanation: (love this photo)
1660089941921.png

https://www.wearethemighty.com/arti...bottles-are-green-dates-back-to-world-war-ii/
 
Well, from what I gathered, Budvar would never consider their beer a Czech *pilsner*, so maybe that's why.

Not to hijack this thread, but what are everyone's recommendations for a trip to Pilsen and Prague? Beer-wise, naturally.
 
@monkeymath

The craft beer explosion is alive and well in Prague. Plenty of places to go and try the micro brews:
Beer geek
Bad flash bar
Craft beer house
Beer time
Zlý časy (evil times)
Pivovarský klub Benedict
Gulden draak bierhuis (awesome Belgian beers!)
Pauwel Kwak bierhuis (sister site to Gulden Draak)
Strahov monastery brewery
Břevnov monastery brewery
Pilzn brewery is about 1 hour outside of Prague

Most of these will have websites with an updated tap list so you can see what they have on offer, many of them rotate weekly.
 
ba-brewer said:
@Velnerj do you have a yeast recommendation for a Czech pilsner?

I have some crisp hana malt and Czech Pilsen Prostejov malt I plan to brew into pale Czech lagers.
Click to expand...
The fact of the matter is that Czech pilsners are kind of hard to brew and they are so cheap (and good!) here that I have never bothered to make one myself. Instead I go for the styles that are hard to find here.

Czechs are quite conservative and nearly every brewery has their version of a Czech pilsner and they are fun to try but I don't have the patience nor the impetus to create my own in a sea of Czech pilsners. The Czechs have a saying, don't bring wood into the forest and I feel like I'd be doing that with my homebrew...

Tldr I don't have a yeast recommendation...
 
ba-brewer said:
@Velnerj do you have a yeast recommendation for a Czech pilsner?

I have some crisp hana malt and Czech Pilsen Prostejov malt I plan to brew into pale Czech lagers.
Click to expand...
Supposedly s-23 is super close to the PU strain genetically, but everyone seems to hate it! I’ve never used it but might try it once with my warm method to see how it goes.
 
Slim M said:
Supposedly s-23 is super close to the PU strain genetically, but everyone seems to hate it! I’ve never used it but might try it once with my warm method to see how it goes.
Click to expand...

I have used S-23 and even fermented cold I get a pretty good amount of fruitiness from it. Other than that I dont mind it, not much sulfur and never had diacetyl issues from it. I keep some in the fridge for emergency pitches.
 
Well I'm doing a double batch today, using pilsner malt and czech budejovice yeast, magnum and saaz.
Plenty of trees down here in New Zealand but pilsner less easy to find.
 
ba-brewer said:
I have used S-23 and even fermented cold I get a pretty good amount of fruitiness from it. Other than that I dont mind it, not much sulfur and never had diacetyl issues from it. I keep some in the fridge for emergency pitches.
Click to expand...
I wonder if the fresh unfiltered Pilsner Urquell has any fruit flavor. I’ve heard as good as it is the PU yeast profile is not the cleanest. I’ve only had the old green bottle import so I can’t judge.
 
Velnerj said:
I was at the

I was at the Pilsner Urquell Brewery and asked about the green glass bottles. They told me it was due to USA demanding that imported beers come in green bottles to differentiate from the domestic beers (this happened back in the 80s I believe). Originally Pilsenr Urquell was in brown bottles (if you watch some old CZ films you can see this), but because they were already too deep in having green bottles in circulation it wouldn't be cost effective to switch back...As the bottles in CZ are on deposit and returnable. Living in CZ it isn't such an issue as it's consumed before skunking happens, but having Urquell in the States is usually a game of Czech Roulette. One tip I heard is to look for Urquell in a can, that will solve the skunking issue.
Click to expand...
I've brewed a Czech pils for competition that's currently lagering for 9 weeks. I came across a local (in Florida) shop that sells singles of just about every beer you'd ever want to try. I picked up two cans of Pilsner Urquel to taste compare them.

The sample taken just before kegging was very nice, and I'm hoping for good comments from the judges. Mostly floor malted pils and a touch of Munich. 100% Saaz hops @ ~28 IBUs. Fresh Saaz is the key to a Czech pilsner. Fingers crossed.
 
Brooothru said:
I've brewed a Czech pils for competition that's currently lagering for 9 weeks. I came across a local (in Florida) shop that sells singles of just about every beer you'd ever want to try. I picked up two cans of Pilsner Urquel to taste compare them.

The sample taken just before kegging was very nice, and I'm hoping for good comments from the judges. Mostly floor malted pils and a touch of Munich. 100% Saaz hops @ ~28 IBUs. Fresh Saaz is the key to a Czech pilsner. Fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
Excellent I’m going to looking for cans of PU or Budvar. What yeast you using?
 
Slim M said:
Excellent I’m going to looking for cans of PU or Budvar. What yeast you using?
Click to expand...
WLP800. First time using it. Got great attenuation fairly quickly, finishing at 1.008 after 7 days @ 50°F. It's been very slow to clear however, after cold crashing to 38°F. The sediment (after harvesting more than 500ml of very clean yeast) was very light and powdery, so I dosed with Biofine to speed up the process.
 
I found Pilsner Urquell single cans at a Whole Foods in St. Pete, FL, but I've never found Budvar anywhere except at a beer specialty shop in Amsterdam, and that was more than 15 years ago.
[/QUOTE]

Do you find Czechvar in local shops? Budvar sells under the name Czechvar in the US due to trademark issues between them and AB InBev with the Budweiser name.
 
Just a random thought... When Josef Groll made the first Pilsner, he probably brought the yeast from Bavaria. I wonder whether the strain (or one of them) actually survived in Bavaria as well and might actually be used by some brewery there.
 
mashpaddled said:
I found Pilsner Urquell single cans at a Whole Foods in St. Pete, FL, but I've never found Budvar anywhere except at a beer specialty shop in Amsterdam, and that was more than 15 years ago.
Click to expand...

Do you find Czechvar in local shops? Budvar sells under the name Czechvar in the US due to trademark issues between them and AB InBev with the Budweiser name.
[/QUOTE]

Czechvar is easy to find. Thought there was Budvar on the shelf too.
 
As I write this post, I'm thoroughly enjoying a pilsner from a Florida (U.S.) brewery named Green Bench. I can't decide if it's more like a Munich Helles or a Czech pilsner, but it's really good. Domestic pilsner malt and 100% Mt. Hood hops bittered to only 7 IBUs. It is totally crushable at 4.5% ABV. If I close my eyes, I'm sitting in the Marienplatz in Munich on a sunny, warm afternoon. It's really that good, except there's no life-sized glockenspiel.

Sorry for the thread hijack.
 
Oleson M.D. said:
Do you find Czechvar in local shops? Budvar sells under the name Czechvar in the US due to trademark issues between them and AB InBev with the Budweiser name.
Click to expand...

Czechvar is easy to find. Thought there was Budvar on the shelf too.
[/QUOTE]

I was aware of the 'Czechvar' issue with Budweiser, but I've never seen Budvar or Czechvar on any shelves in the U.S. I've looked, but never found. That doesn't mean it's not available 'somewhere' 'Stateside.
 
Brooothru said:
Czechvar is easy to find. Thought there was Budvar on the shelf too.
Click to expand...

I was aware of the 'Czechvar' issue with Budweiser, but I've never seen Budvar or Czechvar on any shelves in the U.S. I've looked, but never found. That doesn't mean it's not available 'somewhere' 'Stateside.
[/QUOTE]

Texas
 
DuncB said:
Well I'm doing a double batch today, using pilsner malt and czech budejovice yeast, magnum and saaz.
Plenty of trees down here in New Zealand but pilsner less easy to find.
Click to expand...
Have you used the czech budejovice yeast in the past and if so how did you like it?
 
Oleson M.D. said:
I was aware of the 'Czechvar' issue with Budweiser, but I've never seen Budvar or Czechvar on any shelves in the U.S. I've looked, but never found. That doesn't mean it's not available 'somewhere' 'Stateside.
Click to expand...

Texas
[/QUOTE]
Aha! The Republic of Tejas. The Hill Country perhaps, or New Braunfels where "Der Wurst is the Best"?
 
Brooothru said:
Texas
Click to expand...
Aha! The Republic of Tejas. The Hill Country perhaps, or New Braunfels where "Der Wurst is the Best"?
[/QUOTE]

North Texas, actually. 25 miles north of DFW Airport.

Fredericksburg has an authentic German brewery, Altstadt. Good Bavarian food there too!
 

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