Bru n water vs beersmith salt addition discrepancies

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aussie brewer

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Hi, ive been laying around with bru n water and love the pH estimator!
im having an issue when I add the same data into both, to arrive at the same water profile bru n water says to add gypsum 1.8g calcium chloride 1.3g Epsom salts 0.6g
beersmith 2.0 says gypsum 1.8g calcium chloride 1.7g Epsom salts 0.6g

does anyone know if this is a known issue? or am I doing something wrong :(
cheers :)
 
Calcium chloride anyhydrous.
Vs
Calcium chloride dihydrate.

Anhydrous means no water. Dihydrate means it has 2 molecules of water for every molecule of calcium chloride. That means you need to add more of it to get the same amount of calcium chloride as anhydrous.

1.3g * 147 / 111 = 1.7g

Complicating the matter is that calcium chloride is hygroscopic and soaks up water from the air, so measurement with a scale will be an underestimate either way.

FYI I recommend against adding epsom salt. You don't need to add magnesium.
 
If your targeted profile is intended to contain a LOT of sulfate, using epsom salt is a very good and preferred way to supply some of that sulfate. While malt provides all the magnesium that the yeast need for their metabolism, its magnesium is tied up in organic molecules and is not the same as the ionic magnesium that epsom salt provides.

The hydration state of typical calcium chloride will vary as it picks up water from the moisture in the air. Some people assume that the calcium chloride that you buy from a homebrew shop is in its dihydrate form, but testing on those sources indicates that it is more often nearer to the anhydrous form. Bru'n Water is fixed on the anhydrous form since that helps brewers avoid overdosing their wort with chloride. Calculators that are fixed on the dihydrate form are more likely to result in chloride overdosing.
 
If your targeted profile is intended to contain a LOT of sulfate, using epsom salt is a very good and preferred way to supply some of that sulfate.
Are we talking >400 ppm sulfate?
Why is magnesium preferred over calcium potassium, or sodium?

I've heard mostly bad things about magnesium flavor.
 
Why is magnesium preferred over calcium potassium, or sodium?

Magnesium is an essential nutrient for yeast metabolism. Unfortunately, calcium can preferentially displace magnesium from yeast cells and that does have a negative effect on some yeast and yeast that haven't been acclimated to high calcium environments. Excessive calcium is not good for yeast or brewing.

Boosting magnesium content slightly is perfectly fine in the right beer styles. The bitter and sour flavor effects of magnesium are perfectly suited to bittered styles like pale ale and IPA. The deep aquifer water in Burton has very high magnesium content. Thankfully, the blending of that water with water in the Burton shallow aquifer create a more modest and usable water for brewing the bitter ales that Burton is known for.

Bringing the Mg level of brewing water into the 5 to 10 ppm range has little effect on flavor, but I like to add it to some of my brews. At those levels, its an optional addition.
 
I'm getting a discrepancy between Bru'n Water and Beersmith with Calcium Chloride additions. I'm adding 1.8 grams of Calcium Chloride in Bru'n Water, however BeerSmith is having me add 2.39 grams to achieve the same PPM. I assume Bru'n water is correct, but curious if anyone has thoughts on what's going on here.

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I'm getting a discrepancy between Bru'n Water and Beersmith with Calcium Chloride additions. I'm adding 1.8 grams of Calcium Chloride in Bru'n Water, however BeerSmith is having me add 2.39 grams to achieve the same PPM. I assume Bru'n water is correct, but curious if anyone has thoughts on what's going on here.

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RpH answered this in post #2
 
Yup...misread that. Thanks!

You can also dissolve you Calcium Chloride in water and use the density to determine the concentration. That way it doesn't matter how much water your powder has absorbed. There's a thread in the brew science forum about it.
 
Calcium Chloride continuously absorbs water from the air each time it is exposed to it. It appears that Bru'n Water (free edition) presumes that CaCl2 is completely water free (or anhydrous), whereby even right out of a freshly opened bottle or bag it is usually only at best going to be about 94-96% pure (based upon my two tests of it) as opposed to 100% pure as presumed by BW_free. Most other software presumes that CaCl2 is most typically going to be found in it's dihydrate state, or at about 75.5% purity. Albeit that the latter may be a better outright guess to some extent, none of this is technically "correct". CaCl2 continues absorbing moisture until at somewhere around the heptahydrate state it finally turns into a liquid goo. But before that it pretty much looks outwardly the same (as dry prills). CaCl2 does not jump from state to state, but can exist in a blend of states. As I recall it takes very high heat to drive it back towards the anhydride state. Look it up and don't quote me on this, but it will likely be found to require somewhere around 425 degrees F. plus time. But even if you dry it to nearly 100% purity, by the time it has cooled sufficiently enough to return it to storage it will likely already be only about 95% pure. Due to contaminants it is never actually going to be 100% pure. I believe that AJ discovered the major contaminant to be calcium carbonate.

My always free and complete 'Mash Made Easy' spreadsheet permits you to select any percentage of purity for your CaCl2, or to use it as a liquid solution at any measured specific gravity. As a liquid solution it is much more stable. If your solution drops out a white precipitate over time that is likely calcium carbonate. The absorption of CO2 from exposure to air may over time drop out additional calcium carbonate, plus there is evaporation, so even a liquid solution is not fully stable. Recheck the specific gravity occasionally (perhaps twice a year) whereby to correct for this.
 
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