water chemistry Q: not quite bitter enough, (gulp) but the finish is just right

[ebbelwoi]

Not sure what to make of the bitterness on my latest batch. When I take a sip (actually more of a gulp), I get a really nice, full-ish mouthfeel, but the bitterness seems to be lacking somewhat. However, the finish has a nice lingering bitterness, pretty much exactly where I want it to be.

I'm pretty happy with the recipe except for this one issue. I'm guessing it's a matter of water chemistry, but I could be wrong.

Water:
Ca 62
Mg 2
Na 8
Cl 73
SO4 72
HCO3 5

Grist:
84% Pilsner
8% Carahell
8% Munich

Hops:
17 IBU Nugget @60 min
2g/L Tettnanger @10 min
2g/L Tettnanger @1 min

Brewfather estimates IBUs at 26.

Yeast:
Verdant IPA @ 18-20C/64-68F
OG 1.051
FG 1.011

I realize the yeast is a bit of a shocker, but I'm quite pleased with the results except for this one bitterness thing. It's not really that big of a deal, but if I could fine-tune it, the recipe would be a keeper for me.

I'm hoping to brew the next batch tomorrow. Should I add a few more IBUs to the bittering hops, then lower the sulfate a bit to compensate? Or keep the hops where they are, and lower the chloride? Add a bit of magnesium? Or something else entirely?

My tap water is pretty clean (Cl 12, SO4 27), so I have some wiggle room there. I have gypsum, calcium chloride, and epsom salt on hand.

 

[dmtaylor]

Why don't you kick up the IBUs to 35, and double the sulfate.

You could also try toying with epsom, but don't overdo it, as magnesium tastes like poison.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

My tap water is pretty clean (Cl 12, SO4 27), so I have some wiggle room there. I have gypsum, calcium chloride, and epsom salt on hand.

You could try adding a bit of Gypsum to a glass of the beer and see if you notice an impact. It is a bit of work to translate a small amount of Gypsum back to the actual PPM of Sulfate (and Calcium) you are adding, but it might be a quick way to determine if a bit more Sulfate is desirable.

It could be that the recipe needs a few more IBUs to balance out some of the sweetness that I would expect from Verdant.

 

[DBhomebrew]

It is a bit of work to translate a small amount of Gypsum back to the actual PPM of Sulfate (and Calcium) you are adding, but it might be a quick way to determine if a bit more Sulfate is desirable.

@BrewnWKopperKat has shared a method of using salt solutions added to finished beer in a glass to explore salt adjustments (for flavor) in future extract batches. Over in the advanced extract brewing thread, I believe.

 

[AlexKay]

How long was your beer in the fermenter, did you bottle or keg it, and how long has it had to sit since packaging?

The Tettnang additions won't carry a lot of IBU, but that's a lot of vegetal matter to have floating around, and if it hasn't had time to settle out it's going to affect your beer.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@BrewnWKopperKat has shared a method of using salt solutions added to finished beer in a glass to explore salt adjustments (for flavor) in future extract batches. Over in the advanced extract brewing thread, I believe.

I did. I'll quote it here for convenience.

My process to "season to taste" with either gypsum (CaS04) or Calcium Choloride (CaCl) flavor salts:

1. Create a 100ml solution using 100ml of water and 0.2 gram of either CaS04 or CaCl.
2. Pour a full bottle (12 oz) of beer.
3. Add a tablespoon (or a teaspoon) of the solution to the glass. Stir and taste. Repeat until desired flavor is reached.

Each tablespoon of solution translates to roughly 0.3 grams of that salt in 1 gal of wort (and each teaspoon is roughly 0.1 grams in 1 gal of wort).

 

[ebbelwoi]

Why don't you kick up the IBUs to 35, and double the sulfate.

You could also try toying with epsom, but don't overdo it, as magnesium tastes like poison.

Hmm. Maybe I'll meet you halfway, and shoot for 30 IBUs and 50% more sulfate (100 ppm). The thing is, I'm happy with the bitterness of the finish/aftertaste. I'm worried that increasing IBUs and upping the sulfate will make the aftertaste more bitter, which I don't want.

How long was your beer in the fermenter, did you bottle or keg it, and how long has it had to sit since packaging?

The Tettnang additions won't carry a lot of IBU, but that's a lot of vegetal matter to have floating around, and if it hasn't had time to settle out it's going to affect your beer.

Very little if any hop material made it into the fermenter. 11 days in the fermenter plus 5-6 days of cold crash. Kegged 6 days ago on top of silafine. It's now pretty clear, but not brilliantly so.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Whatever you do, make one change and only one change. Otherwise, you won't be any closer to knowing what the fix is.

That said, I agree on a higher BU:GU ratio and that your sulphate level is rather anemic.

 

[ebbelwoi]

That said, I agree on a higher BU:GU ratio and that your sulphate level is rather anemic.

So which would you change first? Keep in mind that I don't really want to increase the bitterness in the aftertaste.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Hmm. Maybe I'll meet you halfway, and shoot for 30 IBUs and 50% more sulfate (100 ppm). The thing is, I'm happy with the bitterness of the finish/aftertaste. I'm worried that increasing IBUs and upping the sulfate will make the aftertaste more bitter, which I don't want.

I say play with adding some gypsum to a glass. Great advice on that above. You can get an answer on that variable before the next brew day. I agree with @dmtaylor. Double the sulfate most likely won't be too much if this batch feels like it's lacking. Test it out and you have that answer. One variable down. If you don't want to add back end bitterness then maybe gypsum is all you need. Dosing a glass works well.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Salt levels for flavor are a fine finish thing. Hops will have a larger affect.

Once that's settled, sulphate +50-100%. Sulphate is more of a dry mouthfeel rather than bitterness.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Well, I dosed a glass with some gypsum and liked the result. Hopefully my 9:30am beer-tasting palate is reliable. I'm heating up the strike water for the next batch, and doubled the sulfate to 140 ppm. Didn't add magnesium.

Thanks for the input!

 

[DBhomebrew]

If this works out, you may consider bumping your sodium to ~30 on your next next batch. It does barely anything in regards to mash chemistry, but sodium is rather critical for our taste perception. It won't taste salty until you're over 150 or more, it'll help all the other flavors to pop. I like 30-40 in pale beers depending on gravity. 40-50 in darker beers.

 

[dmtaylor]

If this works out, you may consider bumping your sodium to ~30 on your next next batch. It does barely anything in regards to mash chemistry, but sodium is rather critical for our taste perception. It won't taste salty until you're over 150 or more, it'll help all the other flavors to pop. I like 30-40 in pale beers depending on gravity. 40-50 in darker beers.

Salt as a seasoning? Say it ain't so!

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Deleted

 

[JaxBrewerSahti]

26 ibu will have no bitterness

 

[ebbelwoi]

Just an update:
This turned out to be a really good beer. 71ppm chloride, 139ppm sulfate, 27 IBUs. I might take it up to 29-30 IBU on the next batch, but otherwise I'm really happy with this recipe. The best noble blonde I've made.

Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[VikeMan]

26 ibu will have no bitterness

Of course it will. Even as few as 20 IBUs in a 1.051 blonde ale can be firm enough to balance the malt sweetness for the style.

Whether it's bitter enough for an individual drinker's preference is another question.