British Yeasts, Fermentation Temps and Profiles, CYBI, Other Thoughts...

[14thstreet]

Could it be the amount of crystal malt that is contributing to the roasted flavors?

 

[AnOldUR]

Could it be the amount of crystal malt that is contributing to the roasted flavors?

That thought had crossed my mind. Instead of trying to compromise, I wonder if it would be best to brew another Mild and then re-use the yeast for a Bitter (or the other way around.)

But I also like KingBrian's idea of giving it a try.
It’s not like I can’t do all three.

 

[winvarin]

So I tasted my bitter last night (4 full days into fermentation with WLP002). I am within .002 of my anticipated FG (started at 1.042, expecting about 1.013 or 1.012). Here's what I got flavor and aroma-wise (looking for some input on the best time to cold crash).

Aroma:
- Just a hint of fruit (plum maybe)
- no diacetyl
- Light citrus from the hops (I finished with Challenger and Northdown at 15 min). I am thinking the citrus is from the Northdown
- Malt aroma is faint, but there. I can pick it up almost as an afterthought

Flavor
- Bitter but not over the top
- Malt comes through on the finish
- again, no diacetyl
- not much distinct hop flavor (or maybe there is). There is a very slight "tartness" to the flavor. It could be the citrus I am picking up from the hops.

It could also be my water treatment and grain choice. I have very high alkaline water. For this beer, I cut my house water with 75% distilled water and added both gypsum and calcium chloride to replace some of the minerals I lost. I also added a tiny amount of acidulated malt (less than 2% of the total grist)

Per a worksheet I use, it left my residual alkalinity freakishly low. But everything seemed OK mash pH wise. My mash pH measured 5.1. With the margin of error on my meter, that means I was anywhere from 5.05 to 5.15. Lower than the 5.2 sweet spot, but I would think acceptable in most cases.

I plan on tasting it again tonight and over the weekend, until I get a steady gravity reading and the flavor is where I want it.

But the tartness confounds me. There was a little yeast sediment in the sample I pulled. Not sure if the tartness is from the yeasty sample, the grain/water change, or perhaps just a function of the beer being excessively green (less than 96 hours in the fermenter).

Any thoughts? Even a little tart, this beer will definitely be tastey and should serve as a good baseline for me to make some tweaks to in the future.

 

[elkdog]

I cracked the first of my ESB to celebrate UNC's not-losing a few minutes ago, and am pretty damn thrilled with it. The malt flavor comes through wonderfully, with a bit of diacetyl in the finish- enough to emphasize that smoothness of a good English ale. In short, I've made a good English ale, frankly the best I've had in the US, and will certainly use the Fullers ferm temp regimen again.

Special thanks to Bierhaus for the advice on handling cold crashing/bottle conditioning with WLP002. Worked like a charm.

 

[winvarin]

How did you go about bottle conditioning after cold crash? did you add additional yeast?

 

[elkdog]

So I tasted my bitter last night (4 full days into fermentation with WLP002). I am within .002 of my anticipated FG (started at 1.042, expecting about 1.013 or 1.012). Here's what I got flavor and aroma-wise (looking for some input on the best time to cold crash).

Aroma:
- Just a hint of fruit (plum maybe)
- no diacetyl
- Light citrus from the hops (I finished with Challenger and Northdown at 15 min). I am thinking the citrus is from the Northdown
- Malt aroma is faint, but there. I can pick it up almost as an afterthought

Flavor
- Bitter but not over the top
- Malt comes through on the finish
- again, no diacetyl
- not much distinct hop flavor (or maybe there is). There is a very slight "tartness" to the flavor. It could be the citrus I am picking up from the hops.

It could also be my water treatment and grain choice. I have very high alkaline water. For this beer, I cut my house water with 75% distilled water and added both gypsum and calcium chloride to replace some of the minerals I lost. I also added a tiny amount of acidulated malt (less than 2% of the total grist)

Per a worksheet I use, it left my residual alkalinity freakishly low. But everything seemed OK mash pH wise. My mash pH measured 5.1. With the margin of error on my meter, that means I was anywhere from 5.05 to 5.15. Lower than the 5.2 sweet spot, but I would think acceptable in most cases.

I plan on tasting it again tonight and over the weekend, until I get a steady gravity reading and the flavor is where I want it.

But the tartness confounds me. There was a little yeast sediment in the sample I pulled. Not sure if the tartness is from the yeasty sample, the grain/water change, or perhaps just a function of the beer being excessively green (less than 96 hours in the fermenter).

Any thoughts? Even a little tart, this beer will definitely be tastey and should serve as a good baseline for me to make some tweaks to in the future.

That tartness may well be yeast bite, and should disappear after the cold crash. Mine had the same thing, but it's part of the cluster of flavors I associate with "green" beer. It's gone now.

 

[elkdog]

How did you go about bottle conditioning after cold crash? did you add additional yeast?

Yeah, I eyeballed about 2g of S-05, rehydrated it and added it as I filled up my bottling bucket, so it would distribute evenly. The beer I just drank was as much to see if that worked as anything, and the carbonation was perfect. I think this whole process is a major advance in my own brewing skills, and owe almost all of it to this forum.

 

[jmo88]

I cracked the first of my ESB to celebrate UNC's not-losing a few minutes ago, and am pretty damn thrilled with it. The malt flavor comes through wonderfully, with a bit of diacetyl in the finish- enough to emphasize that smoothness of a good English ale. In short, I've made a good English ale, frankly the best I've had in the US, and will certainly use the Fullers ferm temp regimen again.

Special thanks to Bierhaus for the advice on handling cold crashing/bottle conditioning with WLP002. Worked like a charm.

A while back there was some discussion of problems with the Fullers strain in regards to bottle conditioning. Could you hold on to a few of these ESB's for a month or so? I'm interested in hearing your experience with it at that time to see if the carbonation rises and the FG drops. This should help nail down some ideas about contamination vs. bottle conditioning behavior of this yeast.

 

[KingBrianI]

I cracked the first of my ESB to celebrate UNC's not-losing a few minutes ago, and am pretty damn thrilled with it. The malt flavor comes through wonderfully, with a bit of diacetyl in the finish- enough to emphasize that smoothness of a good English ale. In short, I've made a good English ale, frankly the best I've had in the US, and will certainly use the Fullers ferm temp regimen again.

Special thanks to Bierhaus for the advice on handling cold crashing/bottle conditioning with WLP002. Worked like a charm.

Awesome! I'm tapping a 5L cask of the special bitter I made in this thread tonight if you or anyone else in driving distance is interested. I'm a little worried about it but if it sucks there is always the rest of the batch I kegged and a chocolate stout I just did. Bring a bottle of that ESB!

 

[elkdog]

Awesome! I'm tapping a 5L cask of the special bitter I made in this thread tonight if you or anyone else in driving distance is interested. I'm a little worried about it but if it sucks there is always the rest of the batch I kegged and a chocolate stout I just did. Bring a bottle of that ESB!

Can't make it tonight, but very likely moving to Durham in June, so we'll have to drink a few together for sure! I live west of Carrboro now, so it's about 45 minutes up to Durham anyway, which is why we're moving. The picture you posted with your Common Room ESB recipe was what made me go in for this "brew an honest-to-god bitter" project.

jmo88- I don't drink more than 1 or 2 per day, so it should be around to give an idea bout how it performs. I did have some suckback with this batch when I crash cooled it with the blowoff tube still attached, so it won't provide conclusive results if off-flavors or gushers develop, but if that doesn't happen, I'd say it's a good indication that crash cooling and bottling with a different yeast is a good way to go.

 

[winvarin]

That tartness may well be yeast bite, and should disappear after the cold crash. Mine had the same thing, but it's part of the cluster of flavors I associate with "green" beer. It's gone now.

I thought that might be it. Thanks for confirming. The most tart of the 3 or 4 small sips I took was the last one. And there was visible sediment in that one.

A couple of questions about the cold crash then.

1. I ferment in a better bottle. I currently have a standard 3-piece airlock on it with starsan. If I cold crash, I am assuming I will suck the starsan back into the beer when the temp and pressure change. Is there any way to avoid sucking it back in, and the refrigerator air along with it once the star san is all gone?

2. How low should I take the temperature? (Beer is at 67F right now)

3. How long should I leave it at cold crash temps?

4. I intend to cold crash in the primary without racking. Is that OK?

5. Did you warm the beer back up before adding the secondary yeast and bottling? Or did you just re-pitch and bottle at cold crash temps?

6. Did you rehydrate the yeast?

 

[winvarin]

Yeah, I eyeballed about 2g of S-05, rehydrated it and added it as I filled up my bottling bucket, so it would distribute evenly. The beer I just drank was as much to see if that worked as anything, and the carbonation was perfect. I think this whole process is a major advance in my own brewing skills, and owe almost all of it to this forum.

I have a gram scale and should be able to get 2g. What did you go for carbonation wise? I am looking to go between 1.5 and 2 volumes. I read on here somewhere that bottled british ales are more carbonated than the keg or cask versions

 

[elkdog]

I thought that might be it. Thanks for confirming. The most tart of the 3 or 4 small sips I took was the last one. And there was visible sediment in that one.

A couple of questions about the cold crash then.

1. I ferment in a better bottle. I currently have a standard 3-piece airlock on it with starsan. If I cold crash, I am assuming I will suck the starsan back into the beer when the temp and pressure change. Is there any way to avoid sucking it back in, and the refrigerator air along with it once the star san is all gone?

2. How low should I take the temperature? (Beer is at 67F right now)

3. How long should I leave it at cold crash temps?

4. I intend to cold crash in the primary without racking. Is that OK?

5. Did you warm the beer back up before adding the secondary yeast and bottling? Or did you just re-pitch and bottle at cold crash temps?

6. Did you rehydrate the yeast?

1. Bierhaus suggested sanitizing a balloon and putting it across the top of the fermentor. Frankly, a solid stopper would work too. The airlock would lead to suckback, which *so far* hasn't hurt me, but is worth avoiding.

2/3 I took it down to 4 for about 4 days.

4. That's what I did, but I may go with a secondary next time for the following reasons: A- the point is to get the beer off the yeast, so a secondary is a step toward that. B- less head space= less suction when you cold crash.

5. I bottled at cold crash temps- Beersmith did the math for me. I used table sugar, because I haven't been convinced that there's a difference between it and corn sugar for carbing purposes, and table sugar is cheaper.

6. I did rehydrate. Figured it would help the yeast distribute evenly in the bucket.

7. I went for 2.0 volumes. This is an ESB, so it can handle a bit more carbonation without "thinning" it out, and the body came through nicely while still having that nice English smoothness. I wouldn't go higher, though. Probably will do 1.8 next time, in search of a real "sweet spot."

 

[winvarin]

Thanks elkdog. As for carbing temps, why would you adjust sugar? I assume you intend to leave the beer at room temp for carbing so that the yeast stays active. Wouldn't that mean that you would want to add the amount of sugar recommended for the temperature that the beer will settle at (room temp)?

 

[rjwhite41]

A couple of questions about the cold crash then.

1. I ferment in a better bottle. I currently have a standard 3-piece airlock on it with starsan. If I cold crash, I am assuming I will suck the starsan back into the beer when the temp and pressure change. Is there any way to avoid sucking it back in, and the refrigerator air along with it once the star san is all gone?

For a couple of bucks you can get an "s" style airlock that doesn't allow suck back.

 

[KingBrianI]

Awesome! I'm tapping a 5L cask of the special bitter I made in this thread tonight if you or anyone else in driving distance is interested. I'm a little worried about it but if it sucks there is always the rest of the batch I kegged and a chocolate stout I just did. Bring a bottle of that ESB!

We just finished the cask of my special bitter. Compared to the kegged version it was drier and definitely had less malt and yeast flavors. If you remember, I didn't prime the cask expecting the 1968 to continue to ferment just a bit in the cask. It did, and carbonation was spot on. Despite the muted malt and yeast flavors, it was still very good. Mouthfeel was smooth and creamy like a real ale should be and even though the malt and yeast flavors were subdued, they were still present. The guy I was sharing it with preferred the cask version while I preferred the more flavorful kegged version. It was very good either way though, and I'm very pleased with how it came out.

 

[bierhaus15]

Glad to hear there's some good British beers being brewed! Gives me hope that one day I'll be able to go to my local and get a really authentic bitter or mild on tap.

Elkdog, please keep us updated with your ESB in the bottle. I am still not completely sure what sometimes causes the change in flavor, carbonation, mouthfeel when bottling with wy1968. It driving me crazy trying to figure this out - one of my buddies mentioned to me he was having problems with this yeast the other day too. I just brewed a batch of ESB with the yeast this week and plan on bottling some (a few even without priming sugar) to seeing if it changes some over time. Though I do think crash cooling does have a positive effect on these English yeasts...

 

[MattHollingsworth]

5. I bottled at cold crash temps- Beersmith did the math for me. I used table sugar, because I haven't been convinced that there's a difference between it and corn sugar for carbing purposes, and table sugar is cheaper.

How did you calculate for table sugar in Beersmith? I see only DME and corn sugar listed. I use an online calculator myself, as I always use table sugar. You need less table sugar than corn sugar, so if you just used that number for corn sugar, your math's gonna be off a little bit. If you found a way to calculate for table sugar in Beersmith, please share.

Cheers.

 

[AnOldUR]

5. I bottled at cold crash temps- Beersmith did the math for me . . .

How did you do this? Pretty sure that BeerSmith will give you a smaller amount of priming sugar when you give it a lower temperature. The temperature you use in the software should be the highest it sat at after fermentation stopped. If you use the cold crashed temperature of the beer at bottling you will end up with a lower level of carbonation than planned.

 

[elkdog]

How did you do this? Pretty sure that BeerSmith will give you a smaller amount of priming sugar when you give it a lower temperature. The temperature you use in the software should be the highest it sat at after fermentation stopped. If you use the cold crashed temperature of the beer at bottling you will end up with a lower level of carbonation than planned.

I just entered the temp the beer was at when I bottled, and the carbonation came out fine. I took about .2 oz off of what Beersmith told me to do, to compensate for table sugar instead of corn sugar- imprecise, but close enough. Maybe it's a bit less than 2 volumes in reality, but not by much. This'll be good to keep in mind next time, so I can get my numbers right and really get a repeatable product. One of the multiple aspects of crash cooling I didn't think through all the way before I did it. Already making plans for a smaller bitter soon, which will benefit from this accrued wisdom.

 

[elkdog]

We just finished the cask of my special bitter. Compared to the kegged version it was drier and definitely had less malt and yeast flavors. If you remember, I didn't prime the cask expecting the 1968 to continue to ferment just a bit in the cask. It did, and carbonation was spot on. Despite the muted malt and yeast flavors, it was still very good. Mouthfeel was smooth and creamy like a real ale should be and even though the malt and yeast flavors were subdued, they were still present. The guy I was sharing it with preferred the cask version while I preferred the more flavorful kegged version. It was very good either way though, and I'm very pleased with how it came out.

Awesome! Here's to progress!

Elkdog, please keep us updated with your ESB in the bottle. I am still not completely sure what sometimes causes the change in flavor, carbonation, mouthfeel when bottling with wy1968. It driving me crazy trying to figure this out - one of my buddies mentioned to me he was having problems with this yeast the other day too. I just brewed a batch of ESB with the yeast this week and plan on bottling some (a few even without priming sugar) to seeing if it changes some over time. Though I do think crash cooling does have a positive effect on these English yeasts...

Will do. As we've seen, I have a few things to do better next time around, but in the past, my bitters have not come out of the bottle as tasty as when they went in, so I'm encouraged nonetheless (and the outcome is a really nice beer at this point, so while I can certainly do better with my process, I'm already making a decent beer). I've decided to go with WLP002 for my next batch, too, until I really have a good grip on that strain, and to look into other strains after that. Thanks for your advice about the cold crash!

 

[winvarin]

I just entered the temp the beer was at when I bottled, and the carbonation came out fine. I took about .2 oz off of what Beersmith told me to do, to compensate for table sugar instead of corn sugar- imprecise, but close enough. Maybe it's a bit less than 2 volumes in reality, but not by much. This'll be good to keep in mind next time, so I can get my numbers right and really get a repeatable product. One of the multiple aspects of crash cooling I didn't think through all the way before I did it. Already making plans for a smaller bitter soon, which will benefit from this accrued wisdom.

So just to clarify for my morning-dulled brain ... You used the cold crash temperature to figure out how much sugar to add. Then you stored the beer at room temperature while it was carbing?

 

[smizak]

I've got an ESB in bottles fermented w/1968 right now. It's been in the fridge about 10 days and most of them are just starting to drop clear in the neck of the bottle. I noticed one that was still super hazy, so I thought that would be the one I'd drink last night. Popped it and got a super big hiss and then it almost started gushing. I primed this batch with about 3.75oz of sugar for 2.2 vols, this bottle had to be about 2.8-3.0, Belgian-carbonation. I panicked and opened a random bottle. Perfect carbonation. Finished that and grabbed another that I know was from earlier in the bottling day, hopefully ruling out uneven priming sugar mixing. Still perfect carbonation. Weird.

With the haze, I'm guessing I somehow missed a bottle in my sanitation regimen and it got infected. It didn't have any off-flavors which is messing me up. I haven't noticed any depreciation of flavor or body since bottling, I saved about a half gallon off the yeast cake when I racked it and drank it out of a growler, mostly because of this thread. The bottled version is still as pleasantly yeasty and fruity as the growler was. That one bottle is going to eff with me until this batch is gone though, I've read about this yeast suddenly going to work again in the bottle.

 

[elkdog]

So just to clarify for my morning-dulled brain ... You used the cold crash temperature to figure out how much sugar to add. Then you stored the beer at room temperature while it was carbing?

Yep, but it's been suggested, with good reason, that I should have used the 64F (the temperature at which the beer finished fermenting) as my temp to calculate the sugar addition, as the beer wouldn't have absorbed more co2 during the crash cool.

Definitely carbed at room temperature- I'm sure I did that right.

 

[winvarin]

So I just pulled another taste sample of my bitter. I get a real nice grain profile in both the aroma and taste. I have never used golden promise but it has a nice graininess to it. I am definitely picking up that "earthy" "spicy" aroma/flavor usually associated with British hops. The citrus nose it had 2 nights ago is gone. It may just be that some of the fruity/estery aroma I am assuming is coming from the yeast is taking over.

My gravity dropped from 1.015 two nights ago, to 1.012-ish today (wasn't wearing my good glasses). The flavor and aroma are pretty good right now. I'd like to cold crash but am worried that I may still have some fermentables in the beer and carbing after crashing now might lead me to over-carbonate.

I plan on taking another reading tomorrow afternoon. If it has not changed, I think I'll cold crash and maybe then carbonate on the low end of the range I was looking for. That should allow me some latitude on potentially over-carbing.

I'm a little unnerved about this whole process. A lot of what I am tasting and smelling now are things that would be considered faults in "clean" American beers. The moderate to strong esters are what is really throwing me off. If I crash and lock those in now, what's the chance that I wind up with something not really to style? They're not unpleasant at all. But I don't have a great deal of experience drinking British beers made to style. I feel a bit like I'm brewing in the dark.

Or with the help of this thread, like I am at least brewing in a dimly lit room

 

[elkdog]

So I just pulled another taste sample of my bitter. I get a real nice grain profile in both the aroma and taste. I have never used golden promise but it has a nice graininess to it. I am definitely picking up that "earthy" "spicy" aroma/flavor usually associated with British hops. The citrus nose it had 2 nights ago is gone. It may just be that some of the fruity/estery aroma I am assuming is coming from the yeast is taking over.

My gravity dropped from 1.015 two nights ago, to 1.012-ish today (wasn't wearing my good glasses). The flavor and aroma are pretty good right now. I'd like to cold crash but am worried that I may still have some fermentables in the beer and carbing after crashing now might lead me to over-carbonate.

I plan on taking another reading tomorrow afternoon. If it has not changed, I think I'll cold crash and maybe then carbonate on the low end of the range I was looking for. That should allow me some latitude on potentially over-carbing.

I'm a little unnerved about this whole process. A lot of what I am tasting and smelling now are things that would be considered faults in "clean" American beers. The moderate to strong esters are what is really throwing me off. If I crash and lock those in now, what's the chance that I wind up with something not really to style? They're not unpleasant at all. But I don't have a great deal of experience drinking British beers made to style. I feel a bit like I'm brewing in the dark.

Or with the help of this thread, like I am at least brewing in a dimly lit room

Sounds like things are coming together. The esters are what really gives it the English character, imo, and it's pretty remarkable how estery a lot of English ales are, especially on cask in England (I've only been once, but I fell in love with bitters on cask, and refuse to accept that I have to fly across the ocean to have a good bitter).

So, if you like the esters, crash cool and lock them in to an extent. If not, let it sit in the 60s for another week or two and it'll clean up a bit. There's no ideological purity to adhere to. The combination of maltiness, earthiness, and the esters is the real signature of cask bitters, but you don't have to aim for that if it's not what you want to make.

 

[winvarin]

Thanks elkdog. That may be what end up doing. My dad just came over and I gave him a sip of one of the samples I pulled. He said, "that's going to be a good beer when it grows up". I may leave it a few days to let it mellow a bit. I still plan on tasting it daily just to get an idea how it progresses through the flavors and aromas.

 

[bigljd]

I attempted my first English style brew (ESB) last weekend, and read thru this entire thread before my brew. Lots of good stuff in here! The timing was perfect, since this is also my first brew using a new fermentation fridge I snagged off from Craigs list. I can control ferm temps now
The 5 gal recipe uses Crisp pale malt as the base, and has a little Aromatic, Crystal 120 and a dash of Special roast.
IBUs are around 28 using 1.25oz EKG bittering and .75 oz EKG flavoring.
OG came in at 1.050, just a tad above style.
The yeast I'm using is WLP002 - man is that stuff chunky in the vial. It broke up nicely in my starter with the stir plate spinning it. I pitched at 66, hit it with some oxygen, threw it in the ferm fridge and brought it down to 64. When it started fermenting about 6 - 8 hours later I set the temp controller to 68, and when I got up this morning the better bottle was fermenting so hard I was worried that if my blowoff tube got plugged up the resulting explosion might take out half the neighborhood. Don't think this fermentation will take long.
I plan to drop it back down to 64 once the bubbling slows to a crawl and start tasting it - once it's where I like I'll crash it down to 40 for a few days and keg it.
I'll update in a few days - thanks for the great informative thread!

Just an update here - fermentation finished by day 3 of primary. It finished at 1.017 which is around 65% attenuation and in the normal range of WLP002. The FG remained steady on day 4 and 5, and I sampled the gravity test each day and I thought day 5 it tasted pretty good so I crashed it down to 40 degrees. After 2 days at 40 I kegged and force carbed and today I pulled a sample 1/2 pint and it's tasty - slightly yeasty and a little cloudy, but that should clear up after a week. The yeast derived flavors and aroma are very pleasant. I'm used to the clean tastes from WLP001 for most of my beers, so this is a very nice change of pace. I'll add a final update and maybe a photo next weekend after the beer has a chance to mellow for a week in the keg. By the way, the recipe for this special bitter is from page 120 of Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles.

 

[elkdog]

Just an update here - fermentation finished by day 3 of primary. It finished at 1.017 which is around 65% attenuation and in the normal range of WLP002. The FG remained steady on day 4 and 5, and I sampled the gravity test each day and I thought day 5 it tasted pretty good so I crashed it down to 40 degrees. After 2 days at 40 I kegged and force carbed and today I pulled a sample 1/2 pint and it's tasty - slightly yeasty and a little cloudy, but that should clear up after a week. The yeast derived flavors and aroma are very pleasant. I'm used to the clean tastes from WLP001 for most of my beers, so this is a very nice change of pace. I'll add a final update and maybe a photo next weekend after the beer has a chance to mellow for a week in the keg. By the way, the recipe for this special bitter is from page 120 of Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles.

Thanks for the update. I made Jamil's recipe a while back, but without the benefit of knowing this about wlp002. I actually used S-04. I'm thinking the 002 is a far better choice, especially with the cold crash. My next bitter will be 80% Maris Otter, 10% Amber Malt, 10% British Dark Crystal. That's the Fullers 1845 malt bill, which I'll scale down to a special bitter.

 

[bigljd]

Yeah, I'm liking the 002. It's got me interested in trying some of the other English yeasts that have been discussed in this thread.
On a side note, when I'm brewing a new style I usually go and get a few bottles of a commercial or craft brewery that represent the style so I have something to compare to. Tonight I cracked a bottle of Flying Fish Brewing Co ESB, and my beer was pretty close. I'm thinking they use the same recipe as Jamil's. There's was a tad sweeter and more caramel, but the yeast flavor, hops and aroma were pretty close. I liked the caramel taste of theirs slightly better, so next time I may boil the wort a little longer (90 min) or harder to try and get more of the caramel taste out of it. Or if anyone else has any suggestions to bring out more of the caramel flavors let me know.
I'm going to try a bottle of Fuller's ESB next weekend, to see how mine compares.
Edit: After visiting Flying Fish's website, their beer's specs have about a point higher ABV, and they have a different hop lineup than Jamil's recipe. The grain bill is pretty similar, but the higher starting gravity is probably what gives it the bigger and more caramely malt flavor. I might try to copy this next time.
http://www.flyingfish.com/beers/esb_ale.html

 

[GrainCounter]

Thank you, KingBrianI, for starting this thread, and thank you, bierhaus15, for all the great advice.

I took advice from this thread and made a special bitter that turned out great.

I used Baird's MO malt as a base (88%) with some C-120 (6%) and some aromatic malt (6%). Water was adjusted with Burton water salts, due to it being fairly soft. I used an ounce of Brewer's Gold for bittering and an ounce of EKG for aroma.

I used Wyeast 1318 London Ale III in the manner described by bierhaus15 on the first page of the thread. Attenuation was good, with a FG of 1.010. Most of my ale fermentations are at FG in 4 days, but 1318 took 8, which was surprising.

The finished beer is really quite nice. The malt and bitterness are well balanced. There is a pleasant mineral-like quality to the beer along with some slight fruitiness that make it taste more like an authentic bitter than previous attempts.

I look forward to trying Wyeast 1968 in my next attempt.

 

[bierhaus15]

My next bitter will be 80% Maris Otter, 10% Amber Malt, 10% British Dark Crystal. That's the Fullers 1845 malt bill, which I'll scale down to a special bitter.

Don't want to deter you, but just be careful of using too much amber malt in low gravity bitters. At 5% it is very noticeable in a light beer. I find it gives a burnt toast crust, cocao powder flavor more so than just biscuit. I typically use no more than 4% amber malt in my bitters, including ESB.

 

[rjwhite41]

Tonight I cracked a bottle of Flying Fish Brewing Co ESB, and my beer was pretty close... I'm going to try a bottle of Fuller's ESB next weekend, to see how mine compares.

I don't generally compare my "traditional" beers to American craft breweries. I find that a lot of them tend to Americanize every style that they brew. Flying Fish Brewing Co. says on their website "This ESB is a classic British extra special bitter made fresh with an American slant." Fuller's should be a much better comparison if you are trying to make a traditional ESB. Now, if you want to Americanize a style than more power to you. It certainly doesn't make it bad beer.

 

[bigljd]

I don't generally compare my "traditional" beers to American craft breweries. I find that a lot of them tend to Americanize every style that they brew. Flying Fish Brewing Co. says on their website "This ESB is a classic British extra special bitter made fresh with an American slant." Fuller's should be a much better comparison if you are trying to make a traditional ESB. Now, if you want to Americanize a style than more power to you. It certainly doesn't make it bad beer.

Too true. That's why I saved the Fullers test for next weekend, when my beer has aged a bit more and is ready for prime time. I also have a bottle of 14'er ESB from Avery Brewing in CO. We'll see what their take is on the ESB style. The true test will be against the Fullers though.

Does anyone know how well WLP002 stores in the refrigerator after being washed? I've got 2 pint mason jars with washed yeast that I kept from this last batch. WLP001 seems to have a good fridge life IME, but others I've washed in the past haven't fared to well after a month.

 

[motobrewer]

I used Wyeast 1318 London Ale III in the manner described by bierhaus15 on the first page of the thread. Attenuation was good, with a FG of 1.010. Most of my ale fermentations are at FG in 4 days, but 1318 took 8, which was surprising.

could you explain a bit more? bierhaus says "pitch low, then rise to 68F for two weeks"....how low, and how long before raising?

thanks. i think i'm gonna rebrew orfy's mild using 1318.

 

[bierhaus15]

could you explain a bit more? bierhaus says "pitch low, then rise to 68F for two weeks"....how low, and how long before raising?

thanks. i think i'm gonna rebrew orfy's mild using 1318.

I pitch around 64F and slowly let the temp rise up to 68-70F over the course of a few days. Usually by day 4-5 it'll be at 68F and I'll leave it there for at least a week to ensure I get good attenuation. This yeast can be a really fast fermenter and then suddenly slow down for the last 10 gravity points. I'll keg it by day 12-14 after a day or two of cold crashing to flocc the yeast out. 1318 makes an excellent mild!

 

[winvarin]

Too true. That's why I saved the Fullers test for next weekend, when my beer has aged a bit more and is ready for prime time. I also have a bottle of 14'er ESB from Avery Brewing in CO. We'll see what their take is on the ESB style. The true test will be against the Fullers though.

Does anyone know how well WLP002 stores in the refrigerator after being washed? I've got 2 pint mason jars with washed yeast that I kept from this last batch. WLP001 seems to have a good fridge life IME, but others I've washed in the past haven't fared to well after a month.

I am by no means an expert on British style ales, but to me, the 14'er is very Americanized. It screams northwest hop varieties. That being said, it's an outstanding beer. I enjoy it.

 

[Kirbster]

Ok sat down and read the entire thread and I am amazed on what I learned and excited about brewing an esb here soon. Pretty much locked in what I am going to do, however between the last 28 pages or so I lost track of what was said on open fermentation. Does having an open fermentation help increase these malt flavors/esters or is it minuscule when compared to a fermentation temperature controlled regime. Please excuse me if it has been stated definitively.

Also, while reading through the thread I was excited to test these hypotheses in other styles using other strains of yeast such as hefeweizen yeasts. Makes me lament the month long primary used for my rye esb which I am kegging tomorrow though.

 

[bierhaus15]

I think open fermenting does add another dimension for certain yeast strains, though I haven't been doing it much of late as I've been using mostly carboys. Temperature control will have a greater impact on the beer than open fermenting alone.

A month long fermentation won't kill a beer, though you won't get the same esters and malt profile as one fermented for a shorter time. Probably is a good thing in a rye ESB where you want a cleaner beer for the rye flavors to show up.

 

[motobrewer]

I pitch around 64F and slowly let the temp rise up to 68-70F over the course of a few days. Usually by day 4-5 it'll be at 68F and I'll leave it there for at least a week to ensure I get good attenuation. This yeast can be a really fast fermenter and then suddenly slow down for the last 10 gravity points. I'll keg it by day 12-14 after a day or two of cold crashing to flocc the yeast out. 1318 makes an excellent mild!

ah, excellent info, thanks! i've never used it before so I'm excited to try it.