Your terminal strips are isolated between each set (l to r). IMHO you do not need 4 sets of terminal strips. Just use the jumper strips to join the inputs. Cut them to size and go with that.
Here is an example:
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Here is an example:
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Your terminal strips are isolated between each set (l to r). IMHO you do not need 4 sets of terminal strips. Just use the jumper strips to join the inputs. Cut them to size and go with that.
Here is an example:
Yepp, I used two terminal strips in my build and had some extra space left over. I understand you have a little different setup though. It looks like you have the extra room so you might as well do it for simplicity, but you dont want to have all those screw terminals open and live if you dont have to.
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copyright1997 said:
16x12x8" and got it on eBay. Same place Kal used. I spoke to them on the phone about some things before purchasing and they were friendly and helpful, got free shipping as well.
P-J said:
I didn't. Think I'd need all 4, but they came in packs of two and I didn't want to be short. You're saying to cut the homemade jumper wires to length, not the terminals right?
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kpr121 said:
Where did you get that style jumper?
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pickles said:
I like the thin style to not fight with multiple connectors.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
I made my own jumper connections with about 1 inch of wire and two ring terminals. I suggest you NOT do that. Instead just buy the regular jumper strips, and cut them up with tin snips/pliers/etc. similar to how you would separate the top and bottom outlet on a standard 110v outlet, to however many connections you need. They take up less space and are much easier to work with than the homemade jumpers. Just make sure you trim up the edges of the jumper strip so they are far enough away from each other, or better yet leave an open terminal between sets of connections.
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HLT and BK are heading to the welder tomorrow. We're getting together with all the parts to talk through whats going on. I'm pumped. Stopping by the hardware store to pick bolts to mount all the internal components. Just need to get my cuts made to mount the buttons, PIDs, and other stuff on the outside of the panel.
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I have a 50' 1/2" copper coil and I keep reading that 20-25' is plenty for the HERMS coil as long as the HLT is stirred/recirculated with a pump. With that in mind, is there a recommended coil height/distance for the couplings for the input/ouput of the coil?
I'm dropping my stuff off with the welder tomorrow and that's one thing I haven't really looked into yet.
So, how far apart should the couplings be for the HERMS coil?
EDIT: Just rolled the coil...all 50' around a ball lock keg and it's about 13-14" high with some gaps between the coils. I'm thinking about about using it to chill as well, filling the HLT will ice water and recirculating through the coil. I also have an immersion chiller I could double up on in the BK.
Thoughts?
I'm dropping my stuff off with the welder tomorrow and that's one thing I haven't really looked into yet.
So, how far apart should the couplings be for the HERMS coil?
EDIT: Just rolled the coil...all 50' around a ball lock keg and it's about 13-14" high with some gaps between the coils. I'm thinking about about using it to chill as well, filling the HLT will ice water and recirculating through the coil. I also have an immersion chiller I could double up on in the BK.
Thoughts?
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Hey jtkratzer, I noticed you're going to use panel mount receptacles. I just got mine in the other day. Do you plan on adding anything to better waterproof them? I was considering adding an o-ring around the receptacle
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I was thinking about that as well. Mounting the receptacles from the inside of the enclosure and putting an o-ring and face plate over the outside. I'm not really that worried about it as the outlets will be on the side of the enclosure away from the brewery. I'm still considering a way to mount them in the bottom. I unfortunately cut my openings and drilled for my SSRs/heatsinks before seeing Kal had used the "bottom" of the enclosure for the top by JB welding the bottom plate to the enclosure.
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I'll check the search function, but I'm hopeful there is a cleaning process to eliminate that strong copper smell from coil that's on my hands from coiling it that I don't want in my beer.
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HLT and BK are at the welder's place. He's done welding for several breweries in Pa and after showing me some sample work, I'm pumped to see the final product. We talked about doing some other things in the future, like welding tri clover stuff in other places, bottom drains for the MLT and BK, and a system to allow the MLT to tilt to clean out the grain after mashing. He said he should be done by the end of the week.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
jtkratzer said:
Awesome! Excited for pics. How much is all that work running you, if you don't mind me asking?
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kpr121 said:
Sent you a PM. His rates are really reasonable and what he's charging me is less than the tools to cut the holes would cost. He's a friend of my brother in law and giving a pretty decent price.
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Excuse my potentially incorrect vocabulary, but correct me if I'm wrong here...
Link to my diagram:
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11a-RM-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg
I'm working through the layout one more time of the internal components and switches. When running the neutral to the PIDs and switches that control my 120V receptacles, I can wire that in series where I have a leg from the neutral bus to the first switch and from that same screw, jump to the next switch, to the next switch, to terminal 10 on one PID, and finally jump to terminal 10 on the second PID. I'm not splicing or using wire nuts anywhere. I just wanted to confirm I don't need to run individual legs to each of those components.
I also want to confirm for those same items, I can run two hots from the 15A breaker, one fused before the HLT switch, and then a leg from that same contact on the HTL switch to the BK switch. The second hot from the 15A breaker would go to the pump switch, then to the second switch for the other side of the 120V outlet, and then from there a fused leg to the PID power switch.
It didn't make sense that I would run a hot from the 15A breaker back to my Line 1 hot bus and then use jumpers to run 5 seperate legs to the switches.
If everything above is correct, I'll have (as pictured in P-J's diagram) 13 legs going out from the terminal blocks. 2 x 8 position terminal blocks allows me to have the 4 wire 50A plug wire into one side of the blocks, 13 legs out on the other side of the blocks, and leave an empty spot between each of the two hots, neutral and ground like this:
Three hots from each of the 120V lines goes to the breakers and the ground and neutrals go out to each component as depicted in the diagram.
The placement of the range cord wires just makes sense to keep them spaced as far apart as possible to prevent any undesired contacts.
Forgive me for clogging up this thread and the forum with some of these basic questions, but I'd rather confirm that I have it right in my head before wasting time/material doing it wrong.
Link to my diagram:
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11a-RM-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg
I'm working through the layout one more time of the internal components and switches. When running the neutral to the PIDs and switches that control my 120V receptacles, I can wire that in series where I have a leg from the neutral bus to the first switch and from that same screw, jump to the next switch, to the next switch, to terminal 10 on one PID, and finally jump to terminal 10 on the second PID. I'm not splicing or using wire nuts anywhere. I just wanted to confirm I don't need to run individual legs to each of those components.
I also want to confirm for those same items, I can run two hots from the 15A breaker, one fused before the HLT switch, and then a leg from that same contact on the HTL switch to the BK switch. The second hot from the 15A breaker would go to the pump switch, then to the second switch for the other side of the 120V outlet, and then from there a fused leg to the PID power switch.
It didn't make sense that I would run a hot from the 15A breaker back to my Line 1 hot bus and then use jumpers to run 5 seperate legs to the switches.
If everything above is correct, I'll have (as pictured in P-J's diagram) 13 legs going out from the terminal blocks. 2 x 8 position terminal blocks allows me to have the 4 wire 50A plug wire into one side of the blocks, 13 legs out on the other side of the blocks, and leave an empty spot between each of the two hots, neutral and ground like this:
Three hots from each of the 120V lines goes to the breakers and the ground and neutrals go out to each component as depicted in the diagram.
The placement of the range cord wires just makes sense to keep them spaced as far apart as possible to prevent any undesired contacts.
Forgive me for clogging up this thread and the forum with some of these basic questions, but I'd rather confirm that I have it right in my head before wasting time/material doing it wrong.
You have it exactly right.
One other thing that you can do is to make a jumper wire for your drops. Just remove the wire insulation from the wire where you are going to make a connection. Just remove enough insulation to wrap it around the terminal or just enough to fit on a single crimp-on terminal lug. (Don't cut the wire. You can apply solder to that stripped section and just wrap it around the terminal.)
If you have a wire going to 4 places, it's really easy to do. Just be sure to do a layout (place the wire with the route you will be using) and then plan out your connections. Single wire, no wire cuts, All done!
P-J
I sure hope this makes sense.
You mention wiring in series (for neutral). P-J, others, I had read that ground wires should always be done via "home run" style wiring (where the grounds are not put in series) for safety reasons. Can you confirm?
IMHO that is not true. Consider a series of multi drop outlets in a modern kitchen. A single mains cable goes to the first outlet box and the 120V line, the neutral & ground are connected to the first outlet. From there a cable is run to the next outlet box and then the next outlet. In such a layout none of the conductors need to be duplicated. They are simply connected in series.
Another thing to keep in mind: Your brewery should be powered from a dedicated outlet with GFCI protection in place. Your brew controller is a single device plugged into that outlet. Common sense applies to your controller. Set it up and wire it the way you feel comfortable doing it. The NEC ends at the outlet.
Just saying...
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I think that makes sense, trying to visualize. If I start with a length of wire, perhaps a roll, and work from the "farthest" point on the leg and work back to the terminal block. End point might have a crimp connector on it at the terminal. Working back along the route, at the next point I want to connect that wire to a component, use the wire strippers to make two cuts in the insulation, and then a cut along the wire to remove that section of insulation. Wrap that section of exposed wire around the terminal and keep working back to the terminal block finishing with either bare wire clamped in or a crimp connector.
If my explanation sounds like we're on the same page, that makes easy work of connecting a number of components without the expense of crimp connectors.
Absolutely right on the money.!!!
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I'm done buying components for this thing...I just ordered a couple SW2 switches. I decided to ditch the central power switch that turned on both PIDs in favor of an Auber SW2 switch for each PID. Chose that switch over the SW1 as the PID will be lit up when it's on, no need to spend double the money for the switch to have another lit up switch. Also ditched the idea of adding a keyed central power switch as I can either throw the breaker in the spa panel, sub panel, throw both breakers, or P-J let me know I could hit the e-stop at the end of the day to ensure there's no way of turning anything back.
Third SW2 switch is to turn the alarm on and off. I'm hopeful the alarm is loud enough that I can set the alarm to go off when the strike water is up to temp and while that's heating, I can do other stuff around the house.
Those should be here Saturday and I'll do my final measurements and get the holes in the panel cut for the switches, PIDs, and outlets. Then it's time for a paint job and drilling the back plate and mounting the internal components.
Third SW2 switch is to turn the alarm on and off. I'm hopeful the alarm is loud enough that I can set the alarm to go off when the strike water is up to temp and while that's heating, I can do other stuff around the house.
Those should be here Saturday and I'll do my final measurements and get the holes in the panel cut for the switches, PIDs, and outlets. Then it's time for a paint job and drilling the back plate and mounting the internal components.
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In these Sabco kettles, I have stainless dip tubes....two are tri clover to work with the folding false bottoms, and the HLT is fixed. All are welded to the kettles.
There is dead space based on the distance between the "mouth" of the dip tube and the bottom of the keg...which is fine for the BK to prevent sucking up all the trub and break material.
Is there any reason to put bottom drains on these, even if it's for cleaning and allowing all fluid to completely drain?
A bottom drain in the MLT would keep me from having any wort loss due to dead space as well as the cleaning. The other two kettles would be purely for cleaning and fully draining without having to tip them over, etc. I suppose with a false bottom, hop spider, and if I added Brewer's Hardware filter, I would be able to catch most of the crud and drain every last drop into the fermenter.
Just not sure if it's worth the money since I already have the original plumbing in place...
There is dead space based on the distance between the "mouth" of the dip tube and the bottom of the keg...which is fine for the BK to prevent sucking up all the trub and break material.
Is there any reason to put bottom drains on these, even if it's for cleaning and allowing all fluid to completely drain?
A bottom drain in the MLT would keep me from having any wort loss due to dead space as well as the cleaning. The other two kettles would be purely for cleaning and fully draining without having to tip them over, etc. I suppose with a false bottom, hop spider, and if I added Brewer's Hardware filter, I would be able to catch most of the crud and drain every last drop into the fermenter.
Just not sure if it's worth the money since I already have the original plumbing in place...
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Although my setup is not exactly the same as yours, my easy solution to cleaning the last bit of liquid that is not pulled from under the diptube = SHOP VAC. I run my cleaning solution through the system, then shop vac each vessel once the pump looses suction due to the diptupe sucking air. Never have to tip or dump the vessels that way.
I don’t really worry about the wort lost either, I just adjust my batch sizes/volumes accordingly. I really only lose less than a quart of wort in the BK, and most of that is soaked up in hops anyhow. I dont lose anything in the MLT 'cause its a Rubbermaid container that I can tip to drain if I really want to (usually I dont).
YOU JUST SAID YOU ARE DONE BUYING COMPONENTS FOR THE SYSTEM LAST NIGHT! (I know, I am addicted to tinkering like you are)
I don’t really worry about the wort lost either, I just adjust my batch sizes/volumes accordingly. I really only lose less than a quart of wort in the BK, and most of that is soaked up in hops anyhow. I dont lose anything in the MLT 'cause its a Rubbermaid container that I can tip to drain if I really want to (usually I dont).
YOU JUST SAID YOU ARE DONE BUYING COMPONENTS FOR THE SYSTEM LAST NIGHT! (I know, I am addicted to tinkering like you are)
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I meant electrical stuff!
I stopped by the welder's place to drop off an additional coupling and he's done with the element ferrules and they look awesome. He also modified the welded pickup tubes to make room for the elements. They look awesome. He has the three couplings to weld in and a patch to put on one of the false bottoms since the pickup tube isn't going to be perfectly centered after shortening it.
I figured bottom drains weren't worth the additional expense since I have something that works already.
I stopped by the welder's place to drop off an additional coupling and he's done with the element ferrules and they look awesome. He also modified the welded pickup tubes to make room for the elements. They look awesome. He has the three couplings to weld in and a patch to put on one of the false bottoms since the pickup tube isn't going to be perfectly centered after shortening it.
I figured bottom drains weren't worth the additional expense since I have something that works already.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Haha I was just teasing, but yea the bottom drains would be a little bit of overkill. If you didn’t already have the side ports then it might be a different story.
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This is the MLT, but the fitting is identical to the BK. I wanted to see how this tee fitting, thermometer, and ball valve would hook up using the Brewer's Hardware compression fitting to 1/2" MNPT.
I was concerned about the amount of weight on a compression fitting after hooking up a hose on top of the fittings.
Thinking about having the compression fitting welded on to give more strength. Maybe cutting off everything to the right of the hex part of the fitting or using half of a 1/2" nipple.
Maybe I just won't use this thermometer at all. The BK will have the temp probe connected to the PID already. I want to see the temp as I'll BR using the HERMS coil to chill and will be able to see the wort temp as it's recirculated.
I bought a couple things from Stainless Brewing today...90* elbow compression fitting to use on the inside of my MLT to whirlpool, a couple couplings and a few ball valves for the future second pump. Zach looks like he has the start of a great business going there.
I was concerned about the amount of weight on a compression fitting after hooking up a hose on top of the fittings.
Thinking about having the compression fitting welded on to give more strength. Maybe cutting off everything to the right of the hex part of the fitting or using half of a 1/2" nipple.
Maybe I just won't use this thermometer at all. The BK will have the temp probe connected to the PID already. I want to see the temp as I'll BR using the HERMS coil to chill and will be able to see the wort temp as it's recirculated.
I bought a couple things from Stainless Brewing today...90* elbow compression fitting to use on the inside of my MLT to whirlpool, a couple couplings and a few ball valves for the future second pump. Zach looks like he has the start of a great business going there.
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1/2" conduit punch works well. This one is obviously for my power cord. 11 more to go for the switches, alarm, etc.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
How much was that 90 compression elbow?
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kpr121 said:
He's got them for $23.99 for the 1/2".
http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/SS-Comp-90_p_57.html
It's going here in the MLT:
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Progress:
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And more...
I'm really happy with how the holes for the PIDs came out. I spent quite a bit of time getting the measurements right and square. I used a small drill bit to open the corners to prevent cutting too far with the cutoff wheel, which I used to open the holes. They needed quite a bit more material removed to fit the PIDs. I got the first one done, constantly checking measurements to ensure the holes where square. After the first was done, I pulled measurements from the first to apply to the second hole from the other side of the lid and it seems to have worked out pretty well to my eyes.
My SW2 switches for the PIDs and alarm will be here tomorrow.
Just need holes for the element and pump outlets. Then time for paint.
I'm really happy with how the holes for the PIDs came out. I spent quite a bit of time getting the measurements right and square. I used a small drill bit to open the corners to prevent cutting too far with the cutoff wheel, which I used to open the holes. They needed quite a bit more material removed to fit the PIDs. I got the first one done, constantly checking measurements to ensure the holes where square. After the first was done, I pulled measurements from the first to apply to the second hole from the other side of the lid and it seems to have worked out pretty well to my eyes.
My SW2 switches for the PIDs and alarm will be here tomorrow.
Just need holes for the element and pump outlets. Then time for paint.
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Looks like enough room for wiring and connectors.
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Measured the spots for the 15/32" holes for the RTD connectors on the bottom of the enclosure and spots for the two 30A dryer outlets for the elements on the right side of the panel to keep them as far away from liquids as possible and because my plugs have 90* bends at the plug. I need about 2.100" for the dryer outlets, and the closest knockout punch I have is 1.9955". I'm thinking I'll give that shot and use the Dremel to open the holes up a little at a time until the outlets push through.
kpr121
Well-Known Member
jtkratzer said:
Yea you can have a lil extra opening for the outlets . Are you gonna put covers over them?
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I didn't want to jump up to 2 3/8"...seemed like that would be too much, unless I used covers. I wasn't planning on it. Any particular reason I should use a face plate?
If I use my 2" conduit punch, I'll have a 2 3/8" hole. After mounting the outlet, I could cover up the outlet and the excess hole with one of these:
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=rel&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1
But then I have two of those mounted on the side of my panel...I guess it's just cosmetic.
