Brew Magic to electric

[jtkratzer]

I think there is an advantage with the Inline Fuse Holder.

You would rarely need to replace a fuse so it's no big deal and you would not have to drill extra holes in your control panel.

That's what I was thinking. When you linked to the panel mount, I figured you knew something I didn't.

Yeah, if your CP is remotely easy to open, in the very unlikely scenario that one of those fuses are blown, I say use the inline fuse. Those panel mount fuse holders are a pain to work with, and the plastic has a tendency to break with very little pressure. Plus like PJ said you have to drill more holes. I wish I hadnt used them in my control panel.

I saw you used the panel mount type and with P-J's original link, thought there might be a trend.

Thanks again for your help, to both of you.

 

[copyright1997]

That's what I was thinking. When you linked to the panel mount, I figured you knew something I didn't.



I saw you used the panel mount type and with P-J's original link, thought there might be a trend.

Thanks again for your help, to both of you.

I am planning on DIN mounting as many components as possible. Any experience out there using the DIN mounted fuse holders or secondary low amperage breakers?

 

[jtkratzer]

I am planning on DIN mounting as many components as possible. Any experience out there using the DIN mounted fuse holders or secondary low amperage breakers?

I'm using DIN for my breakers and I have waaaaay more than I need and could mail some to you if you want. I have two rails and they're each 3-4' long and I only need like 6-8" to mount my three breakers.

 

[jtkratzer]

Got to Radio Shack and found these:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062258

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062257

At $3.49 and $2.19, it was cheaper than getting six inline holders at $2.99/each.

I decided to put fuses on the indicator lights because it's really easy to keep spare fuses around and swap them if one blows. It'd be at least a 2 day wait for shipping plus paying for shipping for a $3.45 indicator from Auber if one fried because I didn't put a fuse on it.

 

[jtkratzer]

Breaker installed, wired and 50 amp service run to the receptacle, which has been mounted and covered with a face plate and closed up the sub-panel. Checked everything out with the multimeter and it's all good in the hood.

Trimmed the DIN rail down to size for the three breakers and took care of a few other odds and ends. Didn't want to wait for the return to process at Auber and not have my stuff for the weekend, so I ordered everything and I'll let them credit back the returned items.

Looked up a couple places that do water jet cutting to call tomorrow to see what they charge...I have no idea, just curious.

Time for a Latitude 48 IPA and a pair of Game 7s.

 

[copyright1997]

I'm using DIN for my breakers and I have waaaaay more than I need and could mail some to you if you want. I have two rails and they're each 3-4' long and I only need like 6-8" to mount my three breakers.

Thanks for the offer! I have a couple short pieces already, but may need more. I'm just starting to assemble parts lists, and I'm not sure what I want. On the go-cheap route, I have existing 30AMP 240vAC service to my laundry room that I can probably piggyback on (just need to figure out a ventilation route), but the dreamer in me keeps thinking about automation and going bigger, e.g. 50 or 60 AMP service and associated control panel. Because of this, and lots of other higher priority projects, this is sort of on a go-slow plan. I'll be happy if I'm ready to order parts by the end of May.

 

[jtkratzer]

Added a pair of indicators to show when the elements are firing as well as the alarm for use with the PIDs and temps. E-stop is also added. Red switch will be wired to power the PIDs, blues switch the contractors allowing power to get to the elements, and greens will power 15 amp outlets for a pump(s), a stir motor, etc, but only two items.

I know it needs to be laid out how I want and in an easy, common sense way for brew day. Just looking to get opinions from those who have the insight and can help me avoid any mistakes.

 

[jtkratzer]

Internal layout:

Everything should be mostly self-explanatory. The 4 fuses holder between the contactors are for a fuse for each leg from the contactor to protect the indicator lights showing when the elements are firing. The other individual fuse holders are for the PIDs and the e-stop. Just trying to ensure I have enough clearance between the top of the internal components and the backs of the PIDs.

I'm thinking about swapping the breakers and the top two terminal blocks...haven't decided, but I'd like to keep the power cord for the enclosure as long as possible to give me room to move around.

I'll see how this goes for now, but I'm starting to anticipate that I'll eventually get a length of wire and a set of plugs and a few connectors to make my own power cord at least 10' long. We'll see, 6' will give me enough space to at least get the brewery outside the garage door, even if only barely.

 

[jtkratzer]

This is the other layout I was considering to keep all the terminals together and it looks like I won't have any depth issues with the PIDs and the breakers. And the left-most breaker will be pushed out to the edge of the back plate. I want to make sure I have room between them all with the crimp connectors and wiring.

Outlets are in there just to show they'll be on that side.

 

[copyright1997]

This is the other layout I was considering to keep all the terminals together and it looks like I won't have any depth issues with the PIDs and the breakers. And the left-most breaker will be pushed out to the edge of the back plate. I want to make sure I have room between them all with the crimp connectors and wiring.

Outlets are in there just to show they'll be on that side.

Looks nice! What is the size of your enclosure and where did you source it?

 

[P-J]

This is the other layout I was considering to keep all the terminals together and it looks like I won't have any depth issues with the PIDs and the breakers. And the left-most breaker will be pushed out to the edge of the back plate. I want to make sure I have room between them all with the crimp connectors and wiring.

Your terminal strips are isolated between each set (l to r). IMHO you do not need 4 sets of terminal strips. Just use the jumper strips to join the inputs. Cut them to size and go with that.

Here is an example:

 

[kpr121]

Your terminal strips are isolated between each set (l to r). IMHO you do not need 4 sets of terminal strips. Just use the jumper strips to join the inputs. Cut them to size and go with that.

Here is an example:

Yepp, I used two terminal strips in my build and had some extra space left over. I understand you have a little different setup though. It looks like you have the extra room so you might as well do it for simplicity, but you dont want to have all those screw terminals open and live if you dont have to.

 

[jtkratzer]

Looks nice! What is the size of your enclosure and where did you source it?

16x12x8" and got it on eBay. Same place Kal used. I spoke to them on the phone about some things before purchasing and they were friendly and helpful, got free shipping as well.

Your terminal strips are isolated between each set (l to r). IMHO you do not need 4 sets of terminal strips. Just use the jumper strips to join the inputs. Cut them to size and go with that.

Here is an example:

I didn't. Think I'd need all 4, but they came in packs of two and I didn't want to be short. You're saying to cut the homemade jumper wires to length, not the terminals right?

 

[jtkratzer]

Yepp, I used two terminal strips in my build and had some extra space left over. I understand you have a little different setup though. It looks like you have the extra room so you might as well do it for simplicity, but you dont want to have all those screw terminals open and live if you dont have to.

Where did you get that style jumper?

 

[pickles]

Any good electrical supply store will carry them but you can always make them.

 

[jtkratzer]

Any good electrical supply store will carry them but you can always make them.

I like the thin style to not fight with multiple connectors.

 

[pickles]

10-4

 

[kpr121]

16x12x8" and got it on eBay. Same place Kal used. I spoke to them on the phone about some things before purchasing and they were friendly and helpful, got free shipping as well.



I didn't. Think I'd need all 4, but they came in packs of two and I didn't want to be short. You're saying to cut the homemade jumper wires to length, not the terminals right?

Where did you get that style jumper?

I made my own jumper connections with about 1 inch of wire and two ring terminals. I suggest you NOT do that. Instead just buy the regular jumper strips, and cut them up with tin snips/pliers/etc. similar to how you would separate the top and bottom outlet on a standard 110v outlet, to however many connections you need. They take up less space and are much easier to work with than the homemade jumpers. Just make sure you trim up the edges of the jumper strip so they are far enough away from each other, or better yet leave an open terminal between sets of connections.

 

[jtkratzer]

HLT and BK are heading to the welder tomorrow. We're getting together with all the parts to talk through whats going on. I'm pumped. Stopping by the hardware store to pick bolts to mount all the internal components. Just need to get my cuts made to mount the buttons, PIDs, and other stuff on the outside of the panel.

 

[jtkratzer]

I have a 50' 1/2" copper coil and I keep reading that 20-25' is plenty for the HERMS coil as long as the HLT is stirred/recirculated with a pump. With that in mind, is there a recommended coil height/distance for the couplings for the input/ouput of the coil?

I'm dropping my stuff off with the welder tomorrow and that's one thing I haven't really looked into yet.

So, how far apart should the couplings be for the HERMS coil?

EDIT: Just rolled the coil...all 50' around a ball lock keg and it's about 13-14" high with some gaps between the coils. I'm thinking about about using it to chill as well, filling the HLT will ice water and recirculating through the coil. I also have an immersion chiller I could double up on in the BK.

Thoughts?

 

[jtkratzer]

 

[DavyP]

Hey jtkratzer, I noticed you're going to use panel mount receptacles. I just got mine in the other day. Do you plan on adding anything to better waterproof them? I was considering adding an o-ring around the receptacle

 

[jtkratzer]

Hey jtkratzer, I noticed you're going to use panel mount receptacles. I just got mine in the other day. Do you plan on adding anything to better waterproof them? I was considering adding an o-ring around the receptacle

I was thinking about that as well. Mounting the receptacles from the inside of the enclosure and putting an o-ring and face plate over the outside. I'm not really that worried about it as the outlets will be on the side of the enclosure away from the brewery. I'm still considering a way to mount them in the bottom. I unfortunately cut my openings and drilled for my SSRs/heatsinks before seeing Kal had used the "bottom" of the enclosure for the top by JB welding the bottom plate to the enclosure.

 

[jtkratzer]

I'll check the search function, but I'm hopeful there is a cleaning process to eliminate that strong copper smell from coil that's on my hands from coiling it that I don't want in my beer.

 

[P-J]

I'll check the search function, but I'm hopeful there is a cleaning process to eliminate that strong copper smell from coil that's on my hands from coiling it that I don't want in my beer.

http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html

The link will tell you all about it.

 

[jtkratzer]

HLT and BK are at the welder's place. He's done welding for several breweries in Pa and after showing me some sample work, I'm pumped to see the final product. We talked about doing some other things in the future, like welding tri clover stuff in other places, bottom drains for the MLT and BK, and a system to allow the MLT to tilt to clean out the grain after mashing. He said he should be done by the end of the week.

 

[kpr121]

HLT and BK are at the welder's place. He's done welding for several breweries in Pa and after showing me some sample work, I'm pumped to see the final product. We talked about doing some other things in the future, like welding tri clover stuff in other places, bottom drains for the MLT and BK, and a system to allow the MLT to tilt to clean out the grain after mashing. He said he should be done by the end of the week.

Awesome! Excited for pics. How much is all that work running you, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[jtkratzer]

Awesome! Excited for pics. How much is all that work running you, if you don't mind me asking?

Sent you a PM. His rates are really reasonable and what he's charging me is less than the tools to cut the holes would cost. He's a friend of my brother in law and giving a pretty decent price.

 

[jtkratzer]

Excuse my potentially incorrect vocabulary, but correct me if I'm wrong here...

Link to my diagram:
http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a11a-RM-SYL-2352-5500w.jpg

I'm working through the layout one more time of the internal components and switches. When running the neutral to the PIDs and switches that control my 120V receptacles, I can wire that in series where I have a leg from the neutral bus to the first switch and from that same screw, jump to the next switch, to the next switch, to terminal 10 on one PID, and finally jump to terminal 10 on the second PID. I'm not splicing or using wire nuts anywhere. I just wanted to confirm I don't need to run individual legs to each of those components.

I also want to confirm for those same items, I can run two hots from the 15A breaker, one fused before the HLT switch, and then a leg from that same contact on the HTL switch to the BK switch. The second hot from the 15A breaker would go to the pump switch, then to the second switch for the other side of the 120V outlet, and then from there a fused leg to the PID power switch.

It didn't make sense that I would run a hot from the 15A breaker back to my Line 1 hot bus and then use jumpers to run 5 seperate legs to the switches.

If everything above is correct, I'll have (as pictured in P-J's diagram) 13 legs going out from the terminal blocks. 2 x 8 position terminal blocks allows me to have the 4 wire 50A plug wire into one side of the blocks, 13 legs out on the other side of the blocks, and leave an empty spot between each of the two hots, neutral and ground like this:

Three hots from each of the 120V lines goes to the breakers and the ground and neutrals go out to each component as depicted in the diagram.

The placement of the range cord wires just makes sense to keep them spaced as far apart as possible to prevent any undesired contacts.



Forgive me for clogging up this thread and the forum with some of these basic questions, but I'd rather confirm that I have it right in my head before wasting time/material doing it wrong.

 

[P-J]

...
Forgive me for clogging up this thread and the forum with some of these basic questions, but I'd rather confirm that I have it right in my head before wasting time/material doing it wrong.

You have it exactly right.

One other thing that you can do is to make a jumper wire for your drops. Just remove the wire insulation from the wire where you are going to make a connection. Just remove enough insulation to wrap it around the terminal or just enough to fit on a single crimp-on terminal lug. (Don't cut the wire. You can apply solder to that stripped section and just wrap it around the terminal.)

If you have a wire going to 4 places, it's really easy to do. Just be sure to do a layout (place the wire with the route you will be using) and then plan out your connections. Single wire, no wire cuts, All done!

P-J

I sure hope this makes sense.