Blue Moon Clone
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Wayne1
Well-Known Member
The only yeasts I have used with this are 1056 and 1187.
Cookiebaggs
Well-Known Member
wayne
did this come out tasting very very close to blue moon or is only similar using your system. I have gone through alot of clones only to find they dont taste like blue moon
I know this question was for wayne but I've brewed this twice and both times it has been pretty much spot on.
Wayne1
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned early in the thread, THIS WAS the recipe used to develop the beer that became known as Blue Moon Belgian White. Use the recipe proportions and the exact ingredients, and you will end up with what we were making 15 years ago.
DO NOT use any "fancy" Belgian yeast strain. That is not Blue Moon. Do not use RO water or any extra brewing salts. That is not Blue Moon. We used carbon filtered, Downtown Denver water. I believe BeerSmith has the water profile. Blue Moon has also been brewed all over the country without much in the way of changes.
Try to find ground Valencia orange peel. If you can't the sweet orange peel sold in brew shops should come close.
Use only a single addition of noble, German hops.
Good luck.
DO NOT use any "fancy" Belgian yeast strain. That is not Blue Moon. Do not use RO water or any extra brewing salts. That is not Blue Moon. We used carbon filtered, Downtown Denver water. I believe BeerSmith has the water profile. Blue Moon has also been brewed all over the country without much in the way of changes.
Try to find ground Valencia orange peel. If you can't the sweet orange peel sold in brew shops should come close.
Use only a single addition of noble, German hops.
Good luck.
profarm
Well-Known Member
Great thread!! And great info...but the Blue Moon that I have tasted is really "orangy". It just seems that such a small amount of peel in that recipe could not possibly deliver a huge orange taste... Just wondering
Wild Duk,
I used Wayne's recipe two times thus far. It is great. Although I went a bit high on the coriander and orange last time and it ended up tasting dry or a bit too acidic. So for my last batch I ended up adding a dash of sugar to my beer and it is right on. I used .75 ounces of coriander and .25 ounces of valencia orange. It was too much in my opinion OR something else gave me the early vitamin like bite. The first time I went with around 1 tsp of orange and 3 tsp of coriander. So I will find a happy medium this time. I may go around .50 oz of coriander and .16 oz of orange.
For five gallons I have been using the pasted recipe. I am going to brew it again this weekend but go out on a limb and try the witbier yeast. I know I will likely come back and use the safeale next time, but I want to see what the witbier yeast does to it. Good Luck!!!!!
========================
Batch Size: 5.000 gal
Boil Size: 6.500 gal
Boil Time: 0.000 s
Efficiency: 71%
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.6%
Bitterness: 15.3 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 6 SRM (Mosher)
Fermentables
=================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 5.750 lb Yes No 79% 2 L
White Wheat Malt Grain 3.000 lb Yes No 86% 2 L
Oats, Flaked Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 80% 1 L
Rice Hulls Adjunct 8.000 oz Yes No 0% 0 L
Hops
================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time IBU
Hallertau 4.0% 1.100 oz Boil 1.000 hr 15.3 (been subbing Mt Hood)
Yeast
===============================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Safale S-05 Ale Dry 1.667 tbsp Primary
I used Wayne's recipe two times thus far. It is great. Although I went a bit high on the coriander and orange last time and it ended up tasting dry or a bit too acidic. So for my last batch I ended up adding a dash of sugar to my beer and it is right on. I used .75 ounces of coriander and .25 ounces of valencia orange. It was too much in my opinion OR something else gave me the early vitamin like bite. The first time I went with around 1 tsp of orange and 3 tsp of coriander. So I will find a happy medium this time. I may go around .50 oz of coriander and .16 oz of orange.
For five gallons I have been using the pasted recipe. I am going to brew it again this weekend but go out on a limb and try the witbier yeast. I know I will likely come back and use the safeale next time, but I want to see what the witbier yeast does to it. Good Luck!!!!!
========================
Batch Size: 5.000 gal
Boil Size: 6.500 gal
Boil Time: 0.000 s
Efficiency: 71%
OG: 1.048
FG: 1.012
ABV: 4.6%
Bitterness: 15.3 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 6 SRM (Mosher)
Fermentables
=================================
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 5.750 lb Yes No 79% 2 L
White Wheat Malt Grain 3.000 lb Yes No 86% 2 L
Oats, Flaked Grain 16.000 oz Yes No 80% 1 L
Rice Hulls Adjunct 8.000 oz Yes No 0% 0 L
Hops
================================
Name Alpha Amount Use Time IBU
Hallertau 4.0% 1.100 oz Boil 1.000 hr 15.3 (been subbing Mt Hood)
Yeast
===============================
Name Type Form Amount Stage
Safale S-05 Ale Dry 1.667 tbsp Primary
i was wondering the same thing about the small amount of orange peel, but it is dried so maybe that is quite a bit more when fresh? still 0.33 teaspons seems crazy low! but its seems that people are doing it and it comes out good
J8D
are you saying that 0.75 oz or cor. and 0.25 oz of orange peel is too much and 3 tsp or cor. and 1 tsp of orange is too little?
J8D
are you saying that 0.75 oz or cor. and 0.25 oz of orange peel is too much and 3 tsp or cor. and 1 tsp of orange is too little?
Wayne1
Well-Known Member
The information I posted is based on the original recipe of Blue Moon. It is directly scaled down from a 15 bbl batch. To end up with 465 gallons in the serving tank, I used 32 oz. of dried Valencia orange peel from the Denver Spice Company in the kettle.
Spices don't always scale linearly. You may have to experiment a bit to get the flavor you want in your version of it.
Personally I don't care for the flavors that wit yeast brings to the beer. That was why I enjoyed making this version. Again, it is YOUR beer. Make it as YOU like it. What I tried to do in this thread was to document what Blue Moon started out as and why.
IMHO Blue Moon should be thought of as an American White Beer and not as a Belgian Wit. Something new, not a corruption of an existing style.
Spices don't always scale linearly. You may have to experiment a bit to get the flavor you want in your version of it.
Personally I don't care for the flavors that wit yeast brings to the beer. That was why I enjoyed making this version. Again, it is YOUR beer. Make it as YOU like it. What I tried to do in this thread was to document what Blue Moon started out as and why.
IMHO Blue Moon should be thought of as an American White Beer and not as a Belgian Wit. Something new, not a corruption of an existing style.
I "believe" it was too much because I got a vitamin or champagne like initial bite. So I added just a smidgeon of sugar (1/8 tsp) per glass (big glass) and it takes it off. I also DO NOT put a slice of orange in it. I looking back, my intial recipe was actually .33 tsp to 1.25 tsp. I wanted more so I kicked it up to the .75/.25 oz. I am going to brew it this weekend and find an in between.
Also comparing teaspoons to ounces was kind of dumb of me. A teaspoon of a dried, ground spice is barely even registering on the scale. There is six teaspoons of ground pepper in an ounce. Assuming the spices a similar in weight, I did a huge increase of almost three times as much spice for my second batch. You would be absolutely safe (and delicious) with the initial small amount.
Sizz
Well-Known Member
I noticed age has a huge effect. How long are you letting it sit before tapping it? I wait about 2-3 months after kegging my wheats.
brewed this over the weekend as follows (sorry for the poor format)
5.5 gal
5.5 lbs american 2-row
4.5 lbs white wheat malt
1 lb 2 oz quick cook oats
1.3 oz hallatuer hops 3.8% 90 min (actual boil time 120 min)
3 tsp crushed corriander (7 min)
1.5 tsp dried ground valencia orange peel (7 min)
Mash at 151 for 75 min
sparge 166 for 15 min
target OG 1.057
measured OG 1.057
Yeast US-05 ferm. at 72-74 F (woould prefer 70-71 but AC in not on yet in the apartment)
Primary 1 week
secondary 2 weeks
Keg for 3 weeks
5.5 gal
5.5 lbs american 2-row
4.5 lbs white wheat malt
1 lb 2 oz quick cook oats
1.3 oz hallatuer hops 3.8% 90 min (actual boil time 120 min)
3 tsp crushed corriander (7 min)
1.5 tsp dried ground valencia orange peel (7 min)
Mash at 151 for 75 min
sparge 166 for 15 min
target OG 1.057
measured OG 1.057
Yeast US-05 ferm. at 72-74 F (woould prefer 70-71 but AC in not on yet in the apartment)
Primary 1 week
secondary 2 weeks
Keg for 3 weeks
Yes i used the McCormicks and no i dont think it was enough as i couldnt really smell the orange but i was afraid to add more. I tryed another blue moon clone that called for orange peel and marmalade with in the ferm it smelled like blue moon with the orange already added. If i was to do it again i would prob add more orange peel but i have yet to taste it so right now its just a guess
I used almost that same recipe last summer and it turned out great. The only difference is that I grated the zest off of four oranges and a grapefruit and put that in at flameout. I also added 1T of all purpose flour just to make certain it had a good haze.
I've got the grains and hops to brew this this weekend, but still unsure on the orange. 1 tsp. just doesn't seem like enough dried peel to give it any flavor. I have brewed many beer using orange zest, and never gotten the orange flavor I was looking for. I will be using Wyeast 1056 for this one, all others I have used a belgian yeast. Maybe that will be the difference. The "Wit" yeasts could have overpowered the orange flavor in my previous brews.
Duk, I go with one medium-lg orange per 5g. I pick them from my neighbors yard, but store would be same. I have never weighed.
I just made a 10g batch and it was wonderful. Really. BTW, I added the zested orange during the last 5 of the boil.
I just made a 10g batch and it was wonderful. Really. BTW, I added the zested orange during the last 5 of the boil.
fishnuttoo
Well-Known Member
hey, thanks for the great info wayne1!!!
any comments on the extact recipe shown in this thread. is it similar to your original recipe???
thanx
any comments on the extact recipe shown in this thread. is it similar to your original recipe???
thanx
Wayne1
Well-Known Member
The extract recipe posted by homebrewer 99 is NOTHING like Blue Moon. There is no wheat, no oats, too many additions of hops, the spice additions are too large, there is no honey used in Blue Moon and it is the wrong yeast.
I am sure it will make a nice spiced ale, but it is not Blue Moon.
I have not used extracts in over 20 years. I don't even know what is available these days. Let me see if BeerSmith can offer any suggestions.
Dried peel is completely different than fresh zest. You only need very small amounts. Please don't try to compare apples to oranges.
[rant on]
I have given you the EXACT ingredients and proportions that were used. You can use anything you want, but if you want the same flavor as the original, use the information given in this thread to make it "stock" once. After you have made it "stock" then you can mod it to suit your tastes. I do kinda know what I am doing. If you don't actually brew it according to the original recipe, you won't know how it is supposed to taste.
[rant off]
I am sure it will make a nice spiced ale, but it is not Blue Moon.
I have not used extracts in over 20 years. I don't even know what is available these days. Let me see if BeerSmith can offer any suggestions.
Dried peel is completely different than fresh zest. You only need very small amounts. Please don't try to compare apples to oranges.
[rant on]
I have given you the EXACT ingredients and proportions that were used. You can use anything you want, but if you want the same flavor as the original, use the information given in this thread to make it "stock" once. After you have made it "stock" then you can mod it to suit your tastes. I do kinda know what I am doing. If you don't actually brew it according to the original recipe, you won't know how it is supposed to taste.
[rant off]
Duk be careful zesting. I got over excited while zesting the last blue moon attempt and got some of the white rine and that stuff is BITTER!! when it goes in the beer. when zesting stay on the side of caution when it comes to how deep you go. But i will say the fresh zest does smell very good
Wayne1
Well-Known Member
I have mostly brewed this recipe to sell directly from the serving tanks in brewpubs. It is usually fermented quickly and can be served within a week or two of transfer to a conditioning.
That is with 500 gallons of bulk aging. Things do take longer with a 5 gallon batch. When I have brewed this recipe at home, I let it condition in bulk for 2-3 weeks. I do transfer from primary to conditioning after 2 weeks.
After conditioning, I keg it, cool it and carbonate it. It is ready to serve very soon after. If I ever put anything in a bottle it is counter pressure filled from a keg.
wayne1 do you mean you usually do primary for 1 week then 2 weeks secondary or do you do 2-3 weeks primary and 2 weeks secondary? I am 2 days past 1 week in primary and ferm has mostly stopped. Just anxious, what to drink it now!
Wayne1
Well-Known Member
Patience, patience. Time has no meaning to your beer
You should check your specific gravity for two to three days in a row to make sure fermentation has stopped.
Personally, I have been fermenting my homebrew for two weeks in primary and then rack to a second vessel for conditioning. I usually let it sit at least a week or two in conditioning. I keg it then and carbonate it. It takes another week or two to come into full flavor balance once it is in the keg. You should wait at least a month from now before you start drinking your brew.
You should check your specific gravity for two to three days in a row to make sure fermentation has stopped.
Personally, I have been fermenting my homebrew for two weeks in primary and then rack to a second vessel for conditioning. I usually let it sit at least a week or two in conditioning. I keg it then and carbonate it. It takes another week or two to come into full flavor balance once it is in the keg. You should wait at least a month from now before you start drinking your brew.
I just got back from a cruise. The beer has been sitting and bubbling. This one is usually a VERY fast fermenter (one week). However I switched yeast just to see what the wit yeast would do to it. It is still going at three weeks. I am a bit concerned about a possible infections. I will let you know though when I tranfer to secondary.
reddskinnfan
Well-Known Member
I have made a Blue Moon clone that is almost 100% spot on.
It used:
Pilsner Malt
White Wheat
Vienna Malt
Bitter Orange
Sweet Orange
Coriander
Bavarian Wheat (Wyeast 3868)
It used:
Pilsner Malt
White Wheat
Vienna Malt
Bitter Orange
Sweet Orange
Coriander
Bavarian Wheat (Wyeast 3868)
DrColossus11
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Would it be possible to do a partial mash of this recipe?
munche
Well-Known Member
I was looking at this, and I am a complete noob here, but I was thinking I might try my first Partial Mash with this as well.
It looks like most of the Wheat Malt extracts are approx a 60/40 Pale/Wheat split which comes very close, and then I could get the Oats separately? I know I can't just treat them like the typical specialty grain brew up to 170 deal, but maybe I'll read up on PM techniques and try it that way to see how it turns out.
There's a pretty wild variance in "blue moon clone" recipes so it's nice to see something that's definitive.
Edit: I decided to play around on TastyBrew, what do you guys think of this?
OG 1.055
FG 1.014
IBU 18
ABV 5.3 %
SRM 3
% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color
84.6 % 5.50 Wheat Dry Malt Extract 50.6 3.0
15.4 % 1.00 Flaked Oats 4.7 0.4
6.50 55.3
% Wt Weight (oz) Hop Form AA% AAU Boil Time Utilization IBU
100.0 % 1.40 Hallertau Pellet 3.1 4.3 60 0.272 17.7
Wayne1
Well-Known Member
No, you didn't.
As referenced through out this thread, Blue Moon does not use Vienna malt, bitter orange peel OR a Bavarian Wheat yeast. You made a wheat beer that has some spices in it. It is NOT Blue Moon.
Sorry to get all anal about this, but I did brew some of the first batches and I KNOW what goes into it. You may like the flavor of your beer more than Blue Moon, but it is not a clone, it is quite a bit different in its ingredients.
I have never done partial mashes so I am afraid I cannot advise you on this. Mashing with oats does produce a sticky mess. The use of rice hulls is strongly suggested to have a smooth runoff without a stuck mash.
You may want to try just the wheat malt extract with the hopping, spices and suggested yeast instead. It will not be Blue Moon, but it should get you close. After you have a few more brews and some all grain experience, you might want to revisit this recipe and try it all grain with the oats and rice hulls.
DrColossus11
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Thanks Wayne.
I brewed this yesterday - hoping it turns out close to the original:
5.5 Gallon Batch
5.5lbs pale malt
4.25 lbs white wheat malt
1.1 lbs oats
.5 lbs rice hulls
Single Infusion Mash @152
1 oz 5.5aa Saaz @ 60 min ~17IBU (the only variation from Wayne's recipe of hallertau- I am hoping that a noble hop for bittering will not make much difference)
1 oz ground corriander - 10 min
.35 oz ground valencia peel (McCormick's) - 5 min
US-05
Brew day went off pretty well - my OG was towards the high end (1.055) - bubbling away 12 hours later
I'll be sure to post the tasting notes in 3-4 weeks - I look forward to any recipe feedback (especially the Saaz vs Hallertau)
5.5 Gallon Batch
5.5lbs pale malt
4.25 lbs white wheat malt
1.1 lbs oats
.5 lbs rice hulls
Single Infusion Mash @152
1 oz 5.5aa Saaz @ 60 min ~17IBU (the only variation from Wayne's recipe of hallertau- I am hoping that a noble hop for bittering will not make much difference)
1 oz ground corriander - 10 min
.35 oz ground valencia peel (McCormick's) - 5 min
US-05
Brew day went off pretty well - my OG was towards the high end (1.055) - bubbling away 12 hours later
I'll be sure to post the tasting notes in 3-4 weeks - I look forward to any recipe feedback (especially the Saaz vs Hallertau)
5 Gallons
5# 2 Row
4# White Wheat
1# Flaked Oats
1 oz. Hallertauer
Wyeast 1056
Mashed @ 151-152 for 90 minutes
3 tsp. ground coriander 7 @ minutes
2 oz. fresh zest ( 5 Oranges) @ flameout
I brewed this up on 4/20 and its sitting in secondary now. I'm looking forward to tasting this one. I've probably tried 3 different Blue Moon clones from different stores, and haven't liked one of them. All Belgian yeasts however. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one. The only thing I strayed on was using the fresh zest over the dried Vallencia.
Tasting notes to come....Will probably keg a little early as my timing was off and I'm completely out of beer on tap......
5# 2 Row
4# White Wheat
1# Flaked Oats
1 oz. Hallertauer
Wyeast 1056
Mashed @ 151-152 for 90 minutes
3 tsp. ground coriander 7 @ minutes
2 oz. fresh zest ( 5 Oranges) @ flameout
I brewed this up on 4/20 and its sitting in secondary now. I'm looking forward to tasting this one. I've probably tried 3 different Blue Moon clones from different stores, and haven't liked one of them. All Belgian yeasts however. I'm keeping my fingers crossed on this one. The only thing I strayed on was using the fresh zest over the dried Vallencia.
Tasting notes to come....Will probably keg a little early as my timing was off and I'm completely out of beer on tap......
kruserm
Active Member
I am looking forward to hearing how this turns out and I am subscribed.
BrewNinja1
Well-Known Member
I appologize if any of this seems really noobish, but this is my first time coming up with my own "recipe" (all the other batches I have made I followed someone elses recipe).
I have the following info I came up with in BeerSmith below. My question is about the orange/corriander. It called for tsp. Is there a way to convert that to oz? It will be way easier for me to weight it out accurately. BTW, it was also mentioned earlier in this thread about penzies spices carries the orange. I called them and they found out its from california juice oranges. So probably either naval or valencia depending on the time of year the particular batch was made. Thanks for any help!
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.46 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.08 %
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 48.98 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 36.73 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.20 %
1.35 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (90 min)Hops 17.2 IBU
0.33 tsp Orange Peel, Valencia Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.25 tsp Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 15.31 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
I have the following info I came up with in BeerSmith below. My question is about the orange/corriander. It called for tsp. Is there a way to convert that to oz? It will be way easier for me to weight it out accurately. BTW, it was also mentioned earlier in this thread about penzies spices carries the orange. I called them and they found out its from california juice oranges. So probably either naval or valencia depending on the time of year the particular batch was made. Thanks for any help!
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.46 gal
Estimated OG: 1.055 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 17.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.08 %
6 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 48.98 %
4 lbs 8.0 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 36.73 %
1 lbs 4.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 10.20 %
1.35 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (90 min)Hops 17.2 IBU
0.33 tsp Orange Peel, Valencia Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.25 tsp Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 15.31 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
recipe seems good to me but im a noob as well. Dont bother with penzyes go to your local grocery store and get valencia oragne peel by McCormic that way you know what it is and its cheaper. As far as tsp to oz i would weigh out like a couple of tablespoons and see what it comes up as via weight. It isnt hard to measure the spices by tsp (easier actually unless you got a super good scale). Some of us have actually already tested these amounts and determined that it was low for a 5 gal batch. I did much more 3 tsp of corriander and 1.5 tsp of dried orange peel. I tasted this on transfer from primary to secondary after 2 weeks warm and uncarbed and tossed in an orange slice and it tasted very close even that green. As far as oz wise i did weigh the 1.5 tsp and it was way under an oz (i think like 0.3 oz but i am not 100% on that value)
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