Bloody Hell - Reacting to Cider - Sulfite Blush?

[globell]

So every time I have some of my cider (doesn't matter the batch), I get a really bad blush on cheeks and quite often my hands swell up (to the point I cannot move my band on my finger which is normally loose) and my face feels like I have a sunburn.

...and it's kinda gettting worse.

When I bottled some cider at a local brewery (they force carb'd it) he was a little concerned how red I became after drinking a glass. Never thought anything of it. This is definitely worse with my ciders than commercial ones.

I'm using one campden per gallon, then at first racking I'm using 1/4 tsp k-meta for 6 gallons total. At bottling I've been adding 1/8 tsp k-meta for all remaining 5.5 gallons or so.

I don't drink wine often (couple times a year) but do get this feeling when I have it.

...and I have 150L of cider on currently....

if I can't have sulfites - what now? Most of my ciders are in secondary and are about 6-8 weeks old from pitching

and drinking straight rum - I have no problems with the above.

 

[CKuhns]

Have a discussion with your Doctor!!! And for goodness sake if you are reacting to the Cider to the point of hand swelling STOP drinking the cider until you do see your doctor.

I had a very similar issue a few years back - The first time it happened my wife thought I was in serious trouble and after a few instances and a visit to my doctor found it to be a hypersensitivity to any of the "ates" Sulfate phosphate etc.

Commercial ciders and wines almost always add sulfate / phosphate and other stuff to promote yeast health and or inhibit wild yeast and or the ferment. (Looks like you did so as well.) There are techniques and ingredients you can use to minimize the amount of sulfate / phosphate.

In essence, don't use the chemicals. Unfortunately fermentation does create some, but at least for me I have found I can tolerate some small amount. The additional that many commercial folks (and home brewers) add for me is the concern.

 

[mwilcox]

how about other sulfite-containing foods, like dried fruits? Do you have a problem with those?

 

[JonM]

Don't rely on a bunch of anonymous yahoos on a beer website. Stop drinking the stuff that causes a reaction and call your doctor, like now.

"And its kinda getting worse" means next time your throat could close. Or you could eat/drink something that isn't cider but contains the allergen ... and your throat could close.

 

[dyqik]

That sounds like a reaction, but don't believe internet doctors (I'm not that kind of doctor), and get confirmation.

For the future, if you can get UV-pasteurized cider (which is what my local cider mill sells), then there's no need for sulfites before pitching yeast. There may be some other options for stabilizing for backsweetening if you want to do that, but I don't bother.

 

[globell]

Thanks gang. Appreciate it.

I react mostly to young cider. Ironically the aged stuff doesn't incur the same reaction.

I'm going to look into yeast nutrients too.

We eat mostly organic, don't eat much for fast foods, preserved foods and all my cider is from fresh pressed (by us) and grown without any use of chemicals. Even still I'm aware that there's probably residual small amounts of sulphites I consume.

I'll make an appointment with dr.

I guess my next question is I'd like to start researching and learning about making chemical free cider. Is it possible?

I have some wild yeast one gallons. I'll see if I react to those!

I'm also using sani brew and a one step oxigen cleaner for brewing (not oxi clean). Could be those too

 

[CKuhns]

I guess my next question is I'd like to start researching and learning about making chemical free cider. Is it possible?

It is absolutely possible:

Pick an "aggressive" yeast. Aggressive in this case means a yeast that creates an environment specifically so it can thrive and others are likely not to. Safeale S04 is a good choice but is not known to be particularly aggressive. With that said creating a yeast starter 2 to 3 days prior produces billions of healthy yeast and my experience has been it pretty much overwhelms any wild yeast. (No guarantees but does seem to work for me.) I never use campden tablets and have not had an issue to date.

There are mixed opinions as to if additional nutrients are required. In my opinion they are not required and i do not use them. As a result i do go to completion on the ferment and cold crash, clarify and pectin enzyme if required to clear.

The down side with this scenario is the Cider tends to go a bit dry. I personally like a drier less sweet cider so it is good for me.

I also do keg it and as such do not have to worry about inhibiting the yeast as if it does "take off" and re-ferment a bit the keg takes care of the pressure without having to be concerned about bottle bombs..

Thinking about it - There may be something to the "young" cider giving you trouble and aged cider not. Sulfate and Phosphate are I believe notoriously unstable and will over time convert to other less harsh chemicals. Would need to research that a bit but worth looking into.

 

[bernardsmith]

Not sure why an aggressive yeast is needed. A good cider yeast is 71B. As for nutrients, Not sure that apples are nutrient poor but if that is a concern you could always add a handful of non sulfited raisins. I think you can make a good cider that is untouched by any lab created chemical... BUT that said, is it possible that the apples in your cider have been sprayed with pesticides and while eating one or two apples may not cause any reaction, when you drink a glass of cider you may be swallowing enough of the pesticides or other contaminants to cause a reaction. What is your source of the juice?

 

[CKuhns]

For clarity - The only reason for an aggressive yeast is to overwhelm any wild yeast that came along for the ride from fresh pressed apples. Likely not a concern for store bought juice or even juice that has been pasteurized.

 

[Jim311]

This is actually a pretty common reaction to sulfites. I get it myself. You don't HAVE to use sulfites in your wine though. You can either use pasteurized juice or just take your chances on wild yeast if you insist on using fresh fruit. Chances are if you pitch enough of a quality yeast it's going to vastly out compete your wild yeasts. But there are also a ton of people who exclusively rely on wild yeast to make ciders. You also don't need to use campden AFTER fermentation either. It helps give the wines longer shelf lives but it isn't a requirement.

 

[globell]

Not sure why an aggressive yeast is needed. A good cider yeast is 71B. As for nutrients, Not sure that apples are nutrient poor but if that is a concern you could always add a handful of non sulfited raisins. I think you can make a good cider that is untouched by any lab created chemical... BUT that said, is it possible that the apples in your cider have been sprayed with pesticides and while eating one or two apples may not cause any reaction, when you drink a glass of cider you may be swallowing enough of the pesticides or other contaminants to cause a reaction. What is your source of the juice?

Source of the juice are home grown apples without any pesticides or chemicals and we pressed them. Don't want to say organically grown because you can use organically approved chemicals. Just ugly but lovely tasting apples!

 

[globell]

This is actually a pretty common reaction to sulfites. I get it myself. You don't HAVE to use sulfites in your wine though. You can either use pasteurized juice or just take your chances on wild yeast if you insist on using fresh fruit. Chances are if you pitch enough of a quality yeast it's going to vastly out compete your wild yeasts. But there are also a ton of people who exclusively rely on wild yeast to make ciders. You also don't need to use campden AFTER fermentation either. It helps give the wines longer shelf lives but it isn't a requirement.

Any thoughts on non sulphited cider and its longevity? How long will it be viable in bottles? I don't sulfite my bottles, use a o2 cleaner which works to sanitize. Will check to see if there are other ingredients in there....

 

[Jim311]

Any thoughts on non sulphited cider and its longevity? How long will it be viable in bottles? I don't sulfite my bottles, use a o2 cleaner which works to sanitize. Will check to see if there are other ingredients in there....

I have the personal experience to say that it still tastes great even a year after fermentation. But I don't have any other further longevity studies because it never makes it longer than a year without being drank at my house.

 

[globell]

Very good to hear! I doubt mine will make more than a year either!

 

[phug]

Over two years here for cider longevity without adding any chemicals. But that was starting with pasteurized juice

 

[MindenMan]

Is not adding chemicals and bottle pasteurizing for shelf-life an option?

 

[globell]

Is not adding chemicals and bottle pasteurizing for shelf-life an option?

I do pasteurize fermented cider after carbonation is hopefully right. Is that what you ment?

 

[MarkKF]

Don't rely on a bunch of anonymous yahoos on a beer website. Stop drinking the stuff that causes a reaction and call your doctor, like now.

Do you add any corn sugar? Because what you are describing happened to me before I made Cider. I thought it was a tomato allergy but it turns out I developed an allergy to corn in my 40's and there is corn syrup or corn sugar in everything but mostly sauces, breads and cereal.

 

[globell]

Do you add any corn sugar? Because what you are describing happened to me before I made Cider. I thought it was a tomato allergy but it turns out I developed an allergy to corn in my 40's and there is corn syrup or corn sugar in everything but mostly sauces, breads and cereal.

Thanks for the thought. These ciders have no corn sugar.

As a side note - I had the same reaction to some commercial cider I had today call Sea Cider and it was 20.00 for 750ml....

http://seacider.ca/

Any batches from now on, I will be going sulfite free.

Thanks Phug! Two year. Love it!