Blissfully Child-Free

[hunter_le five]

I will virtually cut all of you. There's a difference between EMO and GOTH. If you were a loving parent, maybe you would understand. But you don't.

Having been both, I suspect your understanding of the distinction far surpasses ours:

View attachment 250678

...here is two years after previous picture in an awkward goth phase I'm not too proud of.

Going through the emo phase right now

Oh yeah, then there's this gem:

I was a hipster in a previous life.

 

[Psylocide]

Having been both, I suspect your understanding of the distinction far surpasses ours:





Oh yeah, then there's this gem:

Can't tell if it's even more sad that you have a word document on your desktop entitled " @TheCADJockey Trolling Links"

Lol.

 

[passedpawn]

I can't believe @CreamyGoodness hasn't chimed in yet. I've enjoyed his commentary on this subject over the years.

 

[hunter_le five]

Can't tell if it's even more sad that you have a word document on your desktop entitled " @TheCADJockey Trolling Links"

Lol.

Me, 10 minutes ago: "Yes! I KNEW that this list would come in handy someday! Hours of meticulously cataloguing the dumb stuff he's said have FINALLY paid off!"

 

[SnakeRidge]

For what it's worth, both my wife and I ended up raising (in many ways) our younger siblings due to having sh!tty parents. I am 37, my (and her) younger siblings are either in college or have graduated and are making great lives for themselves. I feel like I personally raised 2 kids in a rough environment when I wasn't prepared for the work and they turned out okay. I don't feel any need whatsoever to contribute any more children to the world.

So, I get a little bitter when I get the old "What?!! You don't have kids! You should have a couple, greatest thing that could happen to you!"

 

[motobrewer]

They got "tricked" into having kids, so they want others to be as miserable as they are. So they NEVER admit any shred of regret.

pffttt baahahaha!

your posts are funny. in your world, "having kids" only means being broke and cleaning up poop. tricked into having kids!!! give me a break. this sentiment is so childish i'm happy you don't have kids.

the best part of this thread was the veiled attempt at "people who choose not to have kids get hated on" and then bam! massive hate toward people who have kids. you've brought up similar threads/posts in the past with similar hate.

for a guy who doesn't have and doesn't want kids it's funny how you proclaim to be an expert on what parents go though. There's good times, there's bad times, but I don't regret a second of it.

my dad is my best friend. my kids are fun as hell. i can't wait to get off work so i can go play with them.

 

[TheCADJockey]

Oh yeah, then there's this gem...

I'm coming for you first......



Have cold Dankosaurus ready or I'll steal the rest of your beloved Target bags.

 

[motobrewer]

also, if you're so "blissfully child-free"....why the F--K are you reading scary mommy??

 

[Psylocide]

I'm coming for you first......



Have cold Dankosaurus ready or I'll steal the rest of your beloved Target bags.

Hey, you're getting them back... lol.

I told you I reused all of "your" packing materials.

 

[hunter_le five]

Your comeuppance is nigh, Psylocide.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1432236028.161585.jpg

 

[Psylocide]

Your comeuppance is nigh, Psylocide.

View attachment 279559

Yep, I ****ing knew it.

I've never said anything dumb though.

 

[SnakeRidge]

also, if you're so "blissfully child-free"....why the F--K are you reading scary mommy??

At the risk of pointing out the neon sign obviousness of it... If you're so "blissfully childed" why are you reading the blissfully child free thread?

 

[slym2none]

pffttt baahahaha!

*snip*

That's all nice.

I don't think this thread is for you though.

 

[SnakeRidge]

Your comeuppance is nigh, Psylocide.

View attachment 279559

Yay, I feel included! I've also got to warn all of you, please use the preview post if you're trying to do some wacky HTML stuff, cause Hunter is watching you struggle.

 

[motobrewer]

At the risk of pointing out the neon sign obviousness of it... If you're so "blissfully childed" why are you reading the blissfully child free thread?

I was "tricked into reading it", just like i was "tricked into having kids"

 

[slym2none]

You seem to be easily tricked.

Say, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I am letting go on the cheap... interested?

 

[azazel1024]

Then why will so few of them admit it? I have a theory.

You just admitted it, but this is an anonymous forum. Your kids will never find out you occasionally felt this way, and that's a good thing. But I think that our society is so invested in perpetuating this culture of parenthood that they hide the truth from young couples until it's too late. They imply that you're not a family without kids, that kids are wonderful, and invariably worth any minor occasional inconvenience or expense.

Because misery loves company. People have kids and find out how expensive and exhausting it is, then they look around at their child-free peers and are envious of the carefree lifestyle. They got "tricked" into having kids, so they want others to be as miserable as they are. So they NEVER admit any shred of regret.

"Kids are the best thing we ever did."
"Really? That one just pooped on your couch."
"Doesn't matter, still worth it when she smiles. You should have some."

Ever read Scary Mommy? Some of those women are literally bordering on suicide and violence. Some of their stories are heartbreaking, about how financially crushing their child is, how much of a disappointment they are, or how much they regret giving in to their spouse and having kids (or being a little too loosey-goosey with the birth control).

Besides, the world is already way too overcrowded. We're clogging the skies with CO2, the oceans with oil, and the cities with hungry people who insist on free-range organic everything while we simultaneously turn our farmlands into condos and our forests into pastures. We've drained the oceans of fish, there's perpetual war in that desolate sandbox known as the "Middle East," the economy sucks, national debt is through the roof... are you really doing a baby a favour bringing it into this world?

Maybe I missed it early in the thread...you don't have kids then?

I ask, because if you did, you'd understand. Every single person I talk to who is on the fence, I tell them do not have kids until you are sure. If you are never sure, never have kids. It isn't something you can take back. Some people are miserable with kids. Some people end up miserable without. However, miserable without just means you are miserable. Miserable with kids means you are screwing your life and someone(s) elses life up too.

I gladly share every single horror story and how hard and terrible it is being a parent. I also share and gush about all of the great parts about having kids. Its wonderful and amazing a lot of time. It is also exhausting and heart breaking. Both my wife and I come from relatively small families. Her's closer and larger than mine, but we are both 1 of 2. Holiday get togethers are great with her family and also mine. If we didn't have kids of our own, they'd be smaller get togethers and some day, many years from now, smaller and smaller till maybe there would be no family get togethers.

As for doing it a favor? Yes of course you are. Wouldn't exist if you didn't bring it in to the world. I am not bring one in to the world with the idea that I am going to torture it. If I had zero optimism or hope for the future, I absolutely would not have had kids. In some ways the world is more screwed today than it used to be...but then again not.

Look at things 200 years ago. 200 years ago, there was a 50/50 change any kid you brought in to the world was going to DIE before it was 5. Odds are excellent these days all 3 of my kids will probably live in to their 80s or even 90s. Hell, maybe there'll be some break throughs and they could live well in to their 100s in great health and vitality. Sure, global warming sucks and people are ignoring it. That doesn't mean that every single human will have a horrible quality of life or that the human race is doomed.

I share all of the warts of parenthood along with all of the charms and wonders of it. When my kids are older, I will absolutely tell them there were times I wondered if being a parent was the right thing, or didn't wishful look at some of my kid free friends and coworkers. Heck, I'll tell them a lot of times being a parent sucks and there are whole days where all I can think about is when the heck is bedtime, I am DONE with this crap. There aren't a lot, but it happens.

Hell, I tell my wife every once in awhile I wistfully think what would have been if I had ended up with someone else, other than her.

Doesn't mean I regret being a parent or hate my kids. It doesn't mean I regret marrying my wife or wish I was with someone else. It is human nature not to look at other things and day dream and think "what if". You'd be crazy if you never did.

 

[SnakeRidge]

I was "tricked into reading it", just like i was "tricked into having kids"

Which of those three (okay two if you count hyphenation) words were the "Bait and Switch?" Which of those "big" words "tricked" you?

 

[blizz81]

As for doing it a favor? Yes of course you are. Wouldn't exist if you didn't bring it in to the world.

Look at things 200 years ago. 200 years ago, there was a 50/50 change any kid you brought in to the world was going to DIE before it was 5. Odds are excellent these days all 3 of my kids will probably live in to their 80s or even 90s. Hell, maybe there'll be some break throughs and they could live well in to their 100s in great health and vitality.

This is implying that existence and longevity of life are objectively positive.

 

[motobrewer]

Which of those three (okay two if you count hyphenation) words were the "Bait and Switch?" Which of those "big" words "tricked" you?

sorry, you're gonna have to wait. since i have kids i'm too broke to pay my internet bill. i'll get back to you in a month.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Then why will so few of them admit it?

Haven't read the rest yet but the answer is simple, because there are small people (ie kids) who could hearthem admitting it. There isn't a married man here (or a married woman for that matter) who doesn't hear a single guy talk about his latest conquest and how it involved 13 straight hours, two bottles of canola oil and multiple partners and not thought "why did I get married again?!"

You know who would really get hurt to hear this (even though they probably understand on some level?) their spouses. So no thanks, no orgies with mid-twenty something Scandinavians for me, please.

If the Menendez brothers testified that their parents often said they'd wished they'd never had kids I'd have supported their decision to shoot... actually... let me rephrase... I would see how the boys would have been somewhat annoyed. How's that.

*Edit* Note that I mean that that feeling is real, and a common experience. I don't mean to imply that I hear about my single friends boinking THIS ONE HERE (why do they always have a picture on their phone of the woman they just hooked up?) and wonder why I am not single for more than a few minutes. Its a fleeting feeling because marriage, like parenthood, is a trade-off.

Now I'll go back to reading the thread.

 

[azazel1024]

This is implying that existence and longevity of life are objectively positive.

Sure, in a lot of cases they are or can be.

I certainly don't see people "tricking" others in to having kids. I know I certainly never do. I've said a couple of times, I absolutely discourage people from having kids if they aren't sure. It isn't something you should do half heartedly.

Oh, sure, some of the best parents I know who love their kids and love being a parent "accidently" became a parent with no intentions of being one. I also know plenty of others who are miserable and didn't intend to be parents. I don't know many who wanted to be parents who are miserable. In fact I can't think of any of my friends or coworkers who decided they wanted kids, who are unhappy that they ever had them.

On the strollers at the farmers market, I can't say I've ever neglectfully run in to anyone.

I've had idiots step right in front of me without bothering to look where they are going and get run in to. I've had that happen a heck of a lot more than once. Then again, I have the same thing in stores pushing a shopping cart without my kids within 20 miles of me, some idiot thoughtlessly steps somwhere without bothering to look around at all. I can't say I've ever had a single person pushing a stroller run in to me with it, or run over my foot in my entire life. I have had plenty of people pushing shopping carts run in to me when I've been standing in one spot for quite awhile.

Maybe a difference in areas of the country/countries we live in?

On the overpopulation and destroying the environment. Yeah, it sucks and it makes me revolted what is happening to our planet. I am also not about to go commit suicide to "try to make the world a better place". I am also not going to not have kids because others are screwing the environment. I'll raise my kids right and teach them the right lessons and hope they try to leave the planet a better place like I am trying to do. Maybe they'll make more of a positive impact than a negative one over their years.

But, then again, I come down on the side of we are here and this is our planet. We are sharing it with everything else on it, so let's try to be good co-residents and try to have as minimal an impact as we can individually and as a society. However, if humanity disappeared today, at best that makes it a nice place for all of the animals and plants that are left.

And then who cares? No one is around to enjoy the eventually pristine planet. Want to make an impact with over population, help education and health care in developing nations. Encourage others to have less environmental impact. Most developed nations have a negative population growth discounting for immigration. Get most of the world on the same footing as the better developed nations, you'll probably see population contraction world wide.

 

[blizz81]

Sure, in a lot of cases they are or can be.

Haha. This is the definition of "subjective".

 

[TheCADJockey]

Haha. This is the definition of "subjective".

Literally, or figuratively?

 

[azazel1024]

Haha. This is the definition of "subjective".

Okay, then I'll put it another way. Over the last 50 years, americans at least (and I am guilty of that sin) have typically had a higher standard of living than their parents. That isn't a rule and things have stagnated the hell out of it the last couple of decades, but it is still, to some greater or lesser extent true. Even with somewhat lower standards of living, there are a lot of things which have "improved life", such as better medical care, automation in your life, etc. Yeah, that doesn't apply to everyone, but it does to a fair number of people.

Crap falls through the cracks, but I at least know I am in and likely to stay in a socioeconomic class such that I can provide my family with a comfortable life and a lot more likely than not based on statistics, my children will also do the same. I am by no means part of the 1%. Heck, I don't even think I quite qualify for the top 20%, I certainly don't for the area I live in, but upper middle class is a good description, even if there are days and times I don't feel that way after paying all of the bills in a month.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

@passedpawn, hadn't had a chance to read it all yet, and didn't want to go off half cocked. (You're welcome for the set-up).

I've been at this parenthood thing for just over 10 months now. Prior to age 28 I had never seen a cute kid... they didn't exist. I was a pretty vocal proponent of "zero population growth" and would tell anyone unlucky enough to have to listen. But, looking back, parenthood is the second LEAST exclusive club in America (marriage is the first). Members want to recruit literally EVERYONE to be a member, and there are people who really shouldn't be in either club.

I talk a lot around here, recently, about the baby because it's something interesting to me. I'd never been called Dada before, and I had no reason to watch Chica the ******* chicken before, so this is all new to me, so I tell anyone who will listen. I'm trying really hard to not become a member of the Cult of Baby, because its not good for kids and its not good for adults, but I have plenty of occasions to unironically use every "I wouldn't change this for the world" cliché in the book.

But on the other end, and I've said this ad nauseum, a lot of parents really suck to be around. When a non-parent asks if Im going to try for #2 I don't mind as much because I know they are thinking about what family planning means to them. When parents ask if you are going to have another I know Im going to have an annoying conversation about how I am depriving SG. On my lunar colony, this will not happen. Similarly, I still stand by my thread where I said the phrase "What am I going to tell my kids?!" should be outlawed. Figure it out, Dad, you're the one who wants everyone to have 2+ kids. If seeing ****s in the Pride Parade or seeing a naked lady tattoo is going to kill your little bundle of job then I suggest finding another street to travel on. YOU raise YOUR kids.

I'm stressed about being broke and in debt, I have the pediatrician on speed dial whenever my kid farts and it smells different than it did the last time, and I have every ******* baby accessory that can fit in a New York apartment. I'm THAT GUY now. But that's the choice I made. If you made a thoughtful decision not to do the same, I applaud you for doing what was right for you. Can you do me a solid though? This aisle is kinda narrow and Im trying to get past, can you move over just a little to the left... ok great thanks sorry about that.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I think there may be a slight miscommunication in this thread. I don't think a lot of people *hate* children. One of our good friends has a 3 year old (maybe? I cant remember) daughter thats really fun, but we also don't have to watch her during the bad times all children will have.

I think a lot of people in this thread have more of a problem with "those" kind of parents. The kind of parents that use their stroller as if its actually Moses parting the red sea of farmer's market crowds, or the parents that complain about how hard it is or expensive it is to raise kids, but keeps having children, and then tells you about how rewarding it is to have children, or the parents complaining about flights/restaurants/other private and public spaces banning children.

I don't hate kids, kids are fun when they arent my children. I hate parents that think the world should cater to their *CHOICE* of having children. If someone buys a massive Cadillac Escalade that gets 8 miles to the gallon, and you hear them complain about how expensive gas is, it's perfectly acceptable to tell them they're a huge moron for making a choice to buy a inneficient car. Someone has kids and complains about how expensive it is to have kids, its not socially acceptable to tell them to stuff it, you have to keep your mouth shut if you don't have kids cause "you don't know how hard it is" or "you cant tell me how to raise my children".

Kids largely cannot control themselves or do not really have an understanding of what is morally/socially acceptable. I still laugh at how stupid I was at 16 and thats not a "kid" anymore in a lot of peoples eyes, I was still basically a child till 25 as far as I am concerned (managed to buy a house and a ring recently for SWMBO so I am finally starting to think I might be an "adult", managed it all before turning 30). Bad kids arent the problem, bad parents are why a lot of us go child-free I think.

 

[blizz81]

Okay, then I'll put it another way. Over the last 50 years, americans at least (and I am guilty of that sin) have typically had a higher standard of living than their parents. That isn't a rule and things have stagnated the hell out of it the last couple of decades, but it is still, to some greater or lesser extent true. Even with somewhat lower standards of living, there are a lot of things which have "improved life", such as better medical care, automation in your life, etc. Yeah, that doesn't apply to everyone, but it does to a fair number of people.

Crap falls through the cracks, but I at least know I am in and likely to stay in a socioeconomic class such that I can provide my family with a comfortable life and a lot more likely than not based on statistics, my children will also do the same. I am by no means part of the 1%. Heck, I don't even think I quite qualify for the top 20%, I certainly don't for the area I live in, but upper middle class is a good description, even if there are days and times I don't feel that way after paying all of the bills in a month.

This has merit, sure. To some degree we can look and say that people are obviously living longer than they used to, and a large percentage of the world's population doesn't have to worry from day to day about getting eaten by a bear, dying from a "simple" disease, or being killed fighting in a war. There are also wrinkles borne from complacency and "societal progress" (if you buy into it) - ie, life 600 years ago may have had more clear of a purpose for everyone, be it tasks of learning and knowledge driven by more simplified means of survival, or that the world was more "magical" and religion was a heavier presence, or that being born to hate your rival and to conquer them in war was more clear than "choose which cube farm you want to slowly creep towards middle-management in".


I think it's also safe to say regardless of circumstance surrounding them, there are a lot of people that don't like living. Some change that perception the other way a little, some change it a lot, over varying degrees of time and life experiences. Some change it the other way. Some people spend relatively short amounts of time in the deeper levels of "dislike", some people spend almost their entire lives there. Some people commit suicide. Relativity and statistics are things that, save for the rare few that volunteer their help in a third-world country or otherwise and gain a "new outlook on life!", largely do not help the people in the "dislike" areas.


We would largely be pretending if we truly believe we can quantify any sort of majority opinion one way or the other, possibly even down to specified geographical regions or communities.

 

[TheCADJockey]

"choose which cube farm you want to slowly creep towards middle-management in".

I'm glaring at you so hard right now.

So hard bro. You don't even know.

 

[Psylocide]

Seriously though guys, IPAs are awesome and I don't understand why you need to devote a whole thread to rant about how much you don't like them.

Hey... wait a minute.