Blissfully Child-Free

[Mismost]

I think that you folks who realized you did not want children, have done children and mankind in general a huge service. Don't want that to sound mean, not meant that way at all. There are so many kids with parents that just don't care about or for their kids. These kids don't get the love, attention, training, or upbringing they deserve....and it shows in the world we live in today.

One of the finest couples I have ever known were childless by choice. He was a wonderful teacher that connected with every kid he ever taught. She was a wonderful listener who "coached" me through some pretty tough times. I am so glad I had them in my life as neighbors. Point being, even if you don't have kids, please try and help every kid you can...you will be rewarded.

 

[NervousDad]

Before my kids were born I could never imagine raising a kids. Now I couldn't imagine not having kids. They run my entire life and I'm fine with that. I'm also glad that many choose not to have kids.

The only thing I miss is the Money! Children consume more money than I could ever have imagined. Just College funds and Daycare we burn about 40k a year. Not to mention food,toys, clothes, sports. We just got the estimated spending for gymnastics for one of my kids, approximately 10k. The things I can do with that extra money....

 

[Homercidal]

With all due respect, and I know you didn't mean it this way, but what you just wrote touches a nerve with me because it implies that couples who choose not to have kids are selfish, while people who procreate are virtuous saints. While I'm sure you're being sincere, I nevertheless seriously doubt that "giving" was the main reason why most parents have kids. Aside from the undoubtedly high proportion that weren't a deliberate decision at all ("Oopsie!"), I believe that those who purposely chose to have kids did so for selfish reasons. Chiefly, because they WANTED to.

There's nothing wrong with that, I just resent when parents imply (or outright accuse) child free couples of being selfish. It suggests that the parents did what they did for the good of humanity, and that would have rather remained child free, but they made a sacrifice for the rest of us and we should shower them with praise and gratitude. Sorry, I'm not buying it. They had kids because first and foremost, they WANTED kids.

Don't get me wrong - we chose not to have kids for equally selfish reasons. I like the life I have and don't want it to change. That's selfish. I love my wife and I don't want to share her. That's selfish. I just resent the implication that parents are virtuous pillars of self-sacrifice, but child free by choice couples are selfish. We're all selfish. That's not a bad thing.

Maybe my choice of words is the problem, or maybe you chose to only read the specific parts that you want to read.

My first sentence was that I respected those that don't want kids. I even said that I didn't want kids.

My statement on giving was in hindsight. I simply listed the positives that came out of our having children, in spite of my initially selfish desire to not have kids. Maybe I should have started that statement with something like, "Looking back now..."

"...I believe that those who purposely chose to have kids did so for selfish reasons. Chiefly, because they WANTED to."

This reads as though it's selfish to want anything, anytime. But if someone wants to give money to a charity, is that selfish? What about driving an elderly neighbor to a doctor appointment? I think that it's unfair to most parents to assume that they spent a lot of money and time and probably emotions on raising kids because they were selfish. There is a price to pay for having kids. I'm guessing the price is the reason most people who don't want kids don't want kids. It's work.

And I can't understand what you mean when you say there is an implication that "(parents) ... made a sacrifice for the rest of us and we should shower them with praise and gratitude." Those parents aren't sacrificing for others. They are sacrificing for their own kids. It has nothing to do with childless couples at all.

But, having kids is kind of expected. Not having kids when you are in a long-term relationship is unusual. I think the natural instinct is to procreate. It's hardly necessary these days, though. We don't even need kids to help man the farm or do the chores anymore. So what's the point of them?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I have joked about wanting kids so i don't have to do dishes any more.

Just saying.

 

[Psylocide]

I have joked about wanting kids so i don't have to do dishes any more.

Just saying.

Ugh... my aunt and uncle started letting my cousins do the dishes when they were like, 3 or 4?

We NEVER ate over there.

Little kids are ****ty dishwashers, is what I'm getting at.

 

[max384]

Ugh... my aunt and uncle started letting my cousins do the dishes when they were like, 3 or 4?

We NEVER ate over there.

Little kids are ****ty dishwashers, is what I'm getting at.

Truth.

But little kids can do a decent job of loading a dishwasher, with some supervision.

 

[1977Brewer]

Ugh... my aunt and uncle started letting my cousins do the dishes when they were like, 3 or 4?

We NEVER ate over there.

Little kids are ****ty dishwashers, is what I'm getting at.

Teenagers are pretty bad at it too.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Yeah, i know. Hence the "joke" part. What with the talk of selfishness and all. I'd suppose it would be selfish to think of kids as chore machines.

 

[Yooper]

I married a man who never wanted children of his own, but when we met I had two small children. It was weird, because he knew when he met me that I had kids and that they were the priority for me. He enjoyed being a step-dad to them, and now he enjoys being a grandpa to two grandsons.

Having kids was a wonderful thing in my life, and it brought great joy to me in thousands of ways. But I can totally see someone not wanting that for themselves. I have some friends who are child-free, and happily so. They have full, rich lives and never wanted or 'needed' children but have been family friends to my kids.

Just like some people want to be engineers or nurses, some people want to have children. It's not "good" or "bad" at all- it just is.

I think we are at a place in society where someone who has 4 kids is much more strongly judged than someone who chooses to remain childless, unlike 25 years ago when a childless person was the one thought to be selfish. I see these days where someone with a bunch of kids is more likely to be thought of as selfish, as there is a definite backlash.

I think most of us are pretty good at accepting other people's lifestyle choices.

 

[azazel1024]

My son had around 50 Reese's Cups left over from his birthday. They're on top of the fridge, but I always make a concerted effort to make sure he is distracted before I snag one.

Eventually I'll get busted and have to find a new stash zone.

My kids are lucky at this age if they end up actually consuming half their halloween candy. If that. Parental tax + sneaking a little here and there.

I mean, it is healthier for them

I certainly respect those who don't want kids. I envy the hell out of them a lot of times too. I look at my brother-in-law and sister-in-law (who do want kids soon) and see their carefree life style. They both work (my wife stays at home with the kids, will probably go back to work full time in 2-3 years). No child expenses. No kids taking up their time. My brother and sister-in-law don't want kids. My sister-in-law likes being an aunt. I think my brother is meh about even being an uncle.

Everyone has their own reasons. I went for short term "loss" for long term gain. A lot of crappy stuff when they are young, like losing free time, losing sleep, extra expenses, loss of income, breaking up fights, not having a clean house for more than 30 minutes, etc. But I get snuggle buddies whenever I want. Someone to read to. Play games with. Talk with whenever I want (and a lot of times when I don't want). Unconditional love (for now, it'll start getting a bit more conditional later). When they are older and adults, hopefully friends. When I am really old, someone to help take care of me and my wife (I don't mean move in with my kids). If my wife dies before me or me before my wife, family to stay in touch with and keep me/her from being completely alone. Etc. I also feel like I am leaving something of myself in the world.

That was my decision and what I felt was important. Do I miss mostly being my own person and doing what I want? Oh hell yeah. When my wife takes the kids to her parents for a few days a couple of times a year without me...it is like heaven. After a couple of days I start to get lonely and miss them though.

When I hear about how my brother-in-law and sister-in-law decided, "Hey, it's Friday. We haven't done anything in a few weeks. Let's take Monday off and go camping in Joshua Tree for a long weekend. Drop the dog off at the Kennel after work and let's go!"...oh hell yes the jealousy is strong in me. I get home and my daughter runs up screaming "DADDY IS HOME!" and gives me a hug around the legs and demands to give me one of her little kisses...hard for anything to beat that.

For me.

I really don't judge people even a little bit on their decisions on kids vs no kids. I value and appreciate kids more than anything. Others value and appreciate other things more. I also choose to have kids very young, other people choose to have them later in life. I do judge that a little bit, only because I know how tiring kids have been in my mid twenties through now early thirties and I think they are friggen crazy when they are having kids in their late thirties or early/mid fourties. Seems crazy coming from a place where I know my oldest will be off to college by the time I am in my mid-fourties and my youngest will have graduated college when I am only in my very early fifties. Hard for me to grok my kid(s) not graduating college until I am in my early sixties or even late sixties. I'd like a few years of working after my kids are all grown up and out of college and I plan to retire by my mid fifties (if I am lucky). But I only judge a little.

To me the only two things I really am jealous of friends/family who don't have kids yet or who have choosen not to have kids ever, is the extra money and the time freedom. I don't begrudge almost anything else. But being able to go "I am going to do X. The only thing stopping me if my significant other has something really important going on then and needs me along. Or I have work, or I made some other plans. Me, they are my other plans". I miss that. A few more years and I can kind of sort of be back to that, but right now I am jealous as hell of that. The money thing too, but not as much as the time freedom.

Lack of a clean house, kids running around, having to help with homework, losing sleep because one of them is sick and I am up all night with them. Meh, doesn't really bother me a whole lot. At least not longer than in the moment.

 

[passedpawn]

I know when most people read this thread about kids they are thinking about human pupa in smelly diapers, screaming and such. That part was not so much fun for me (my wife, who IS a saint, seemed to enjoy those years). But it doesn't take long for them to start riding horses and throwing baseballs, reading the same books as you, and before you know it they become your lifelong best friend(s).

It's great when your kids can kick your ass at tennis and golf, both of which we do a lot down here.

 

[azazel1024]

I married a man who never wanted children of his own, but when we met I had two small children. It was weird, because he knew when he met me that I had kids and that they were the priority for me. He enjoyed being a step-dad to them, and now he enjoys being a grandpa to two grandsons.

Having kids was a wonderful thing in my life, and it brought great joy to me in thousands of ways. But I can totally see someone not wanting that for themselves. I have some friends who are child-free, and happily so. They have full, rich lives and never wanted or 'needed' children but have been family friends to my kids.

Just like some people want to be engineers or nurses, some people want to have children. It's not "good" or "bad" at all- it just is.

I think we are at a place in society where someone who has 4 kids is much more strongly judged than someone who chooses to remain childless, unlike 25 years ago when a childless person was the one thought to be selfish. I see these days where someone with a bunch of kids is more likely to be thought of as selfish, as there is a definite backlash.

I think most of us are pretty good at accepting other people's lifestyle choices.

I would say that is absolutely true. Having three kids, I don't get much judginess from people. That said, I do often get the occasional question from parentless kids, or more so from those who have just 1 or 2, "Oh. You have 3. Isn't that so much more work than just 2?" or things along those lines. My friends who have 4 or 5, I know they get judgement/questions all the time. Especially the one couple who have 5 the constant remarks of "Oh, were you trying to start a basketball team". Once is annoying. Twice is really annoying. You hit the 38th time and you start being snippy or getting angry with people making the comment.

I wish I could have another personally. To me the good outweighs the "bad" by a lot. Its emotionally exhausting and physically exhausting a lot of times. But I love it on the whole. Watching the "baby" grow up (she is 3, man time flies) is making me said that I'll never have another baby, toddler, etc. But, we can't. Just too expensive. We'd have to sacrafice too much for our family to have another child. It would make it a lot harder to put the kids we do have through college. Save for our retirement. Take the family on vacations, etc. We've also gotten rid of all of our baby and toddler stuff, so we'd have to beg or borrow from a lot of friends and buy sooooooo much more stuff. We also only have a 3 bedroom house, with my boys sharing a room, so a baby would have to go in our room until old enough that he/she could share the room with my daughter. Unless or if we could do the addition on our house before having another kid, but that is at least 2 years off.

Our kids are 2 years apart, I don't want the last one to be 4 (what it would be now) years apart, let alone 5-7 years younger.

I just need my brother-in-law and sister-in-law to move back to area and start popping out kids for my baby/toddler fix.

 

[azazel1024]

I know when most people read this thread about kids they are thinking about human pupa in smelly diapers, screaming and such. That part was not so much fun for me (my wife, who IS a saint, seemed to enjoy those years). But it doesn't take long for them to start riding horses and throwing baseballs, reading the same books as you, and before you know it they become your lifelong best friend(s).

It's great when your kids can kick your ass at tennis and golf, both of which we do a lot down here.

I love athletics, but I have a lot more fun when my oldest son kicks my butt at Star Craft 2, or builds a really cool rocket in KSP or something and wants me to come see it. Just starting to play soccer.

 

[BSBrewer83]

My wife and I have 2 kids under the age of 2. Well the oldest turned 2 a couple days ago. The other one is 4 months.

I am 32 and wife is 30. Sometimes we look at each other like WTF did we do.

I love my kids but every parent at some point dreams of being blissfully child-free. At least temporarily.

 

[azazel1024]

As a young father of a young kid, thanks to all the fun uncles and aunts who provide that blessing of an hour of relief!

I have a relative who catches a lot of flak for having made that decision, and I don't understand it. If someone decides they don't want kids, for whatever reason, why put any pressure on them to have kids? It's not like you can just take them back to the store if it doesn't work out.

And I honestly just read the "Speeding Up Brew Day" article thinking I wonder if I could do my next beer after bedtime this way. I'm putting in the time to research no-chill and BIAB for that very reason. I love my kid and wouldn't trade him for anything, but damn it if I don't want to just start heating up the strike water the second I get home from work. For some reason, SWMBO won't let me put him in a carrier while I'm bending over a hot brew kettle... and if I let him run around, he chases the dogs with a racking cane. Oh, to be childless in those moments...

TinyHands, you can do it. Switch to BiaB. I've only done it a couple of times, but my kids' bedtime is generally 8pm, sometimes 8:30ish or 9. If I can get them down at 8pm, what I'll often do is get my pot on when I am starting dinner. Heat to mash temp about when I am done making dinner. Mash in, serve up dinner. Sit down and eat dinner. Clean up, shower the kids if they need it, change them in to PJs, brush teeth, read a book or two. Then get them down and the mash is done. Heat to strike, mash out, up to boil, chill with my wort chiller, dump in my carboy and clean up.

If I time it and do it right I am done at around 10-10:30pm. Exhausted, but done.

I tend not to do it often because I get disapproving looks and comments from my wife most times when I choose to do it, but she isn't too harsh about it.

 

[hunter_le five]

So what's the point of them?

I often wonder this.

They're not good at much, and can't even hold down a steady job or help pay the rent. Bunch of freeloading mooches, is what they are.

Little kids are ****ty dishwashers, is what I'm getting at.

Teenagers are pretty bad at it too.

Adults are pretty turrible at it too. And by adults, I mean SWMBO.

 

[Psylocide]

I often wonder this.

They're not good at much, and can't even hold down a steady job or help pay the rent. Bunch of freeloading mooches, is what they are.

I dunno, my kid is two now and brings me my shoes, beer, sunglasses, etc. She's a pretty good gofer.

However, I do have to sit and talk with her every time she takes a poop and smell **** out of water for like 15 minutes straight.

That's pretty bad.

 

[hunter_le five]

Once when SWMBO was talking about the possibility of having kids, I suggested that we convert the garage into a small sweatshop, in order to help offset the costs of raising them, and maybe help pay the bills a bit. They could make handmade wallets, shoes, t-shirts, purses, etc. If anyone from CPS ever came by, we'd just say it was "arts-and-crafts" time.


That was probably the same day SWMBO decided that she didn't want to have children with me.

 

[Homercidal]

Had my young one out in the garage helping me cut down and weld up my brew stand. Seemed like she was having a pretty good time helping me plan it and I think I'll have her weld the feet back on.

It's more fun now that she can pretty much take care of herself and all I have to do is make sure she does her homework and doesn't do something stupid before she's old enough.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

My wife (age 28) and I (age 32) are on the fence. Fence isn't a great place to be, on such a large irreversible decision. If there was some sort of way to be sure kids would turn out like her it would be easier. When she was a kid, she just wanted to be left alone so she could quietly read. When I was a kid I was one of those horrible busy hyper screamy kids. I'm not much of a gambling man, but I don't like those odds.

I envy those people that know for sure, one way or the other. I have much respect for those that don't want kids and stick to their guns. We are getting a lot of pressure from friends and family, and that totally sucks. My wife is naturally stubborn, and I think all the pressure pushes her away from kids.

The kid-free lifestyle is fantastic, but I think it would be pretty neat to have all those family experiences too. How to decide??? Just pull the goalie?

 

[bbohanon]

Some advice.... If you are going to have kids, do it early. I work with a guy who is 48 and they just had their first. He loves his kid, but regrets doing it that late as he will be an old man by the time his kid graduates.

I have 3 kids myself. Wife and I started within 12 months of our marriage and I was 23 and she was 20.

I am 42 now and its worked out pretty great. My oldest can get the other 2 where they need to go on weekdays/weekends so I can stay home and brew or do honey-do list items.
It was not easy (still is not easy), and certainly NOT cheap, but honestly, I could not imagine my life without them. They do complete a part of your life you did not know was empty pre-kids.
For those that decide not to have kids, I totally understand. I worry about the future of my kids in the day and age. I am sure my parents did about me when I was that young as well.

 

[iijakii]

Had a vasectomy at 23. Kids are the worst. Lit'rally.

 

[1977Brewer]

Some advice.... If you are going to have kids, do it early. I work with a guy who is 48 and they just had their first. He loves his kid, but regrets doing it that late as he will be an old man by the time his kid graduates.

I have 3 kids myself. Wife and I started within 12 months of our marriage and I was 23 and she was 20.

I am 42 now and its worked out pretty great. My oldest can get the other 2 where they need to go on weekdays/weekends so I can stay home and brew or do honey-do list items.
It was not easy (still is not easy), and certainly NOT cheap, but honestly, I could not imagine my life without them. They do complete a part of your life you did not know was empty pre-kids.
For those that decide not to have kids, I totally understand. I worry about the future of my kids in the day and age. I am sure my parents did about me when I was that young as well.

I thought I had it bad having my last at 34. I'll only be 52 when he graduates.

 

[blizz81]

My wife (age 28) and I (age 32) are on the fence. Fence isn't a great place to be, on such a large irreversible decision. If there was some sort of way to be sure kids would turn out like her it would be easier. When she was a kid, she just wanted to be left alone so she could quietly read. When I was a kid I was one of those horrible busy hyper screamy kids. I'm not much of a gambling man, but I don't like those odds.

I envy those people that know for sure, one way or the other. I have much respect for those that don't want kids and stick to their guns. We are getting a lot of pressure from friends and family, and that totally sucks. My wife is naturally stubborn, and I think all the pressure pushes her away from kids.

The kid-free lifestyle is fantastic, but I think it would be pretty neat to have all those family experiences too. How to decide??? Just pull the goalie?

From my experiences in life and observing that of others, I think it generally pans out:

- if you have any inkling or little desire whatsoever to have kids, you should have them / you'll eventually have them
- if you know and have known that you absolutely never want to have kids, hope that you find someone that's a good match for you AND feels the same way about this, and never have kids together

 

[hunter_le five]

I hope you people are happy, now I'm looking up vasectomy doctors in the area.

#Ima-get-neutered.

 

[phug]

Just pull the goalie?

best euphemism for stopping birth control

 

[kombat]

Maybe my choice of words is the problem, or maybe you chose to only read the specific parts that you want to read.

My first sentence was that I respected those that don't want kids. I even said that I didn't want kids.

I know, Homercidal, that's why I tried to preface my comment with saying I know that's not what you meant. My remarks weren't directed at you or anything you wrote. I was trying to convey that your comment made me think of the times I've heard other people make similar remarks, that DO mean it in a pejorative way. I never doubted that that was NOT what you were saying, I know you're not that kind of a person. I was hoping to avoid such a misunderstanding, but apparently I did a poor job drawing the separation.

This reads as though it's selfish to want anything, anytime. But if someone wants to give money to a charity, is that selfish?

"Selfish" means acting primarily in one's self-interest. So I think the motivation must be considered. If someone is giving to charity because they want to see their name on a donor list, or so they can bring it up at parties and have people validate them, then yes, I think that's selfish. But if someone donates anonymously to a cause they really care about, that's genuine generosity (unless, I suppose, someone with cancer is donating to the Cancer Society).

I guess what I was trying to say is that someone who abstains from procreating is no more selfish than a parent who chose to have kids. You could make the case that both are "selfish," or not, but I don't think you can argue that one is acting more selfish than the other. I didn't have kids because I don't want to change my lifestyle. Some people have kids with the intention of having someone to look after them when they get old. Is one motivation more selfish than the other?

 

[Kharnynb]

It only took 2 pages to get from a happy to be child-free thread, to a:
-my daughter welds with me,
-my sons are great athletes,
-I have the most amazing grandchild

Thread derailed...

 

[kombat]

I love my kids but every parent at some point dreams of being blissfully child-free.

Then why will so few of them admit it? I have a theory.

You just admitted it, but this is an anonymous forum. Your kids will never find out you occasionally felt this way, and that's a good thing. But I think that our society is so invested in perpetuating this culture of parenthood that they hide the truth from young couples until it's too late. They imply that you're not a family without kids, that kids are wonderful, and invariably worth any minor occasional inconvenience or expense.

Because misery loves company. People have kids and find out how expensive and exhausting it is, then they look around at their child-free peers and are envious of the carefree lifestyle. They got "tricked" into having kids, so they want others to be as miserable as they are. So they NEVER admit any shred of regret.

"Kids are the best thing we ever did."
"Really? That one just pooped on your couch."
"Doesn't matter, still worth it when she smiles. You should have some."

Ever read Scary Mommy? Some of those women are literally bordering on suicide and violence. Some of their stories are heartbreaking, about how financially crushing their child is, how much of a disappointment they are, or how much they regret giving in to their spouse and having kids (or being a little too loosey-goosey with the birth control).

Besides, the world is already way too overcrowded. We're clogging the skies with CO2, the oceans with oil, and the cities with hungry people who insist on free-range organic everything while we simultaneously turn our farmlands into condos and our forests into pastures. We've drained the oceans of fish, there's perpetual war in that desolate sandbox known as the "Middle East," the economy sucks, national debt is through the roof... are you really doing a baby a favour bringing it into this world?

 

[kombat]

My wife (age 28) and I (age 32) are on the fence. Fence isn't a great place to be, on such a large irreversible decision.

The kid-free lifestyle is fantastic, but I think it would be pretty neat to have all those family experiences too. How to decide??? Just pull the goalie?

No way. I think you should only have children if you can't possibly imagine your life without them. "Meh" is a recipe for a wildly dysfunctional family and poorly adjusted children. You need to be 100% committed to making children your top priority.

I'm not. Hence, no kids.