BIAB WATER QUANTITIES

[Kris Brew]

Hi All,

I am new to home brewing, tried a small batch from a kit my bro bought me... it didn't pan out quite right however i really enjoyed what i was doing but had inadequate kit which made everything difficult (pots too small, tiny hob ect..) so i have set myself up with Gas Burner, DIY Keggle, large BIAB BAG and Fermentation Fridge.

I have been given roughly 200g of homegrown cascade hops which i dried, vac packed and put in the freezer about three weeks ago, so i am planning to use these to make my first SMASH IPA as if it goes wrong it won't hit my pocket so hard!

The recipe i have found is in this link https://learn.kegerator.com/recipe-cascade-smash-pale-ale/

I am planning to follow the hop quantities and ordered 410g of simpsons golden promise pale ale malt along with Safale US-05 last night.

I want to end up with 21 - 25L of wort in my FV at the end but am unsure of correct quantities of of water to use, i have searched and searched the tinterwebs to which i have found myself feeling more confused.

Any help/advice would be much appreciated, Thank you in advance!

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome to the addiction!
Using your home grown hops makes that beer extra special.

ordered 410g of simpsons golden promise pale ale malt

410g? The recipe calls for around 9 pounds...

Look for a BIAB mash calculator.
The one from Screwy Brewer (he's a member here) is very good. There is lots of BIAB related information on that page. The rest of his site is worth checking out too.

 

[Kris Brew]

Thanks for the reply Island Lizard!

Sorry there is meant to be an extra 0 on there making 4.1kg.

I have had a brief look at the link you have supplied and i think it is going to help alot! I will sit down a bit later and see if i can work everything out and report back!

Would you say the quantity of grain is ok in that recipie? As i found another on this website, more or less the same other than there is more grain in the other one?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/smashed-cascade-ipa.157261/

I wouldn't toast though as i want to keep everything simple.

 

[myndflyte]

I use this calculator: https://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/#Advanced

Once I got my grain absorption and boil rate dialed it, it's been spot on.

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks for the reply Island Lizard!

Sorry there is meant to be an extra 0 on there making 4.1kg.

I have had a brief look at the link you have supplied and i think it is going to help alot! I will sit down a bit later and see if i can work everything out and report back!

Would you say the quantity of grain is ok in that recipie? As i found another on this website, more or less the same other than there is more grain in the other one?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/smashed-cascade-ipa.157261/

I wouldn't toast though as i want to keep everything simple.

The amount of grains needed to make the beer with the proper OG depends on your brewhouse efficiency when you brew all grain. You find out your brewhouse efficiency when the batch is in the fermenter and since this is your first experience, you can't adjust for the efficiency on this batch but can use the information you gather to predict how the next batch will be. Go ahead and make this with the amount of grain you have calculated, make lots of measurments and record them for use in future batches. For instance, if I were to use that much grain with my BIAB and finely milled grains, my OG would be around 1.070 because I have much higher brewhouse efficiency than the 75% expected for this recipe.

 

[shetc]

May I recommend https://www.biabrewer.info/index.php? The calculator provided there will help with making your water estimates.

 

[Kris Brew]

Sorry for the delay chaps, life just keeps getting in the way!

My brew day took place yesterday evening/night, everything went pretty smooth considering i felt a bit anxious about it! Never been confident with anything kitchen/cooking related for some reason!?

I just couldn't make sense of all the info the calculators needed, i found it very confusing and wasn't sure about it so i did some more googling and found this https://mashhacks.com/how-to-calculate-water-volumes-for-brewing/ which i found simple enough with the help of my trusty calculator! With all calculations done i ended up with just over 20L in my FV so i was pleased with the result.

I was a bit unsure with gravity readings so i took a pre-boil of 1.032 (just after mash, cooled in fridge prior to reading) and a post boil reading of what i decided was 1.039 (taken just before racking to FV). I was meant to end up with 1.050 according to the recipe so i was miles off, can anyone please help me to understand what has caused this?

My mash started off too high so had to cool it with my wort chiller but started with ice cubes before i realized i had made that awesome contraption! So i was at about 72c for 10 mins, got it down to 66c (which is where i wanted to be according to the recipe) for about 15 mins and it stabilized at 65c for the remainder of the hour.

Didn't have a boil over which was good! followed the hop schedule and added half a protafloc tab at the 15min addition. Cooled and racked off the wort into my FV (bucket), everything sterilized, also used a strainer bag to help oxygenate and collect unwanted hops ect..

The temp was 22.5c when pitching yeast Safale US-05 (sprinkled it on top), placed in FV fridge set at 20c, i am a bit concerned as i have seen no fermentation activity this morning prior to leaving for work, no foaming, no bubbling. Prior to leaving the house i took the FV out, left the lid on and gave it a shake around which i am hoping will help get it going... is there something i have done wrong or am i just being a bit impatient?

 

[IslandLizard]

Congrats with your first all grain brew!

My mash started off too high so had to cool it with my wort chiller but started with ice cubes before i realized i had made that awesome contraption! So i was at about 72c for 10 mins, got it down to 66c (which is where i wanted to be according to the recipe) for about 15 mins and it stabilized at 65c for the remainder of the hour.

72C (162F) is way too high for mashing. Enzymes start to denature around those temps. 10 minutes at those temps won't kill the mash but may cause some less activity. This could be one of the reasons your pre-boil gravity came in low. But there are other, more likely factors.

Now with that in mind, you do need to start with warmer water as you mix in the cold grain, then stir well for 3-5 minutes or so until it looks like a homogenous porridge throughout, with no dough balls or dry grain spots, etc. By that time you should be at your intended mash temp or a degree or 2 higher (at the most), or a degree or 2 lower, at the most. You'll get a feel for what is needed for your mash system and ambient temps. Put the lid on then cover it and wrap that bare kettle with a thick blanket, old sleeping bag, anything that provides insulation. Needless to say, do not use an open flame with flammable insulation around. No matter how tempting at times!

I was a bit unsure with gravity readings so i took a pre-boil of 1.032 (just after mash, cooled in fridge prior to reading) and a post boil reading of what i decided was 1.039 (taken just before racking to FV). I was meant to end up with 1.050 according to the recipe so i was miles off, can anyone please help me to understand what has caused this?

The recipe indicated 1.050, @RM_MN calculated 1.070, and you got 1.039 as OG, post boil gravities. You should have come in between 1.060 and 1.070 with BIAB.
Now your pre-boil gravity was already very low @1.032, so your mash was not very efficient. That needs some serious attention for your next brew.

Aside from you overshooting your mash-in temps, which can have something to do with that, milling is next.

Milling is crucial to mash efficiency. In short, the finer the grist, the faster and more complete conversion will take place. Brew stores generally mill much too coarse, especially when using BIAB systems where you could mill very, very fine as the mesh bag will filter out even very fine powder. You could ask for "BIAB fine milling" or let them run it through the mill twice, at least. A narrower gap or (re-)milling your own are the best options.

Judge the look of your milled grain first. For BIAB there should be NO whole kernels in there and the largest pieces of "white starch" should be no larger than 3/16" (~2 mm), and only very few, while the majority be around 1/16" (~1-1.5 mm) and smaller. Some powder and dust is A-OK, but not too much. You also will find tan husk material in various sizes and shapes, but that's mostly insignificant. Look around for pictures of properly milled grain for BIAB.

The other thing is, you need to squeeze the bag, let the bag drip out, or sparge the bag. Otherwise lots of high gravity wort remains trapped in the grain. But that doesn't fix your low 1.032 gravity, it just gets you more wort (sugars).

 

[Kris Brew]

Thank you!

I really tried to keep a chilled mind set with everything as i don't want to see things going wrong as stressful, i just want to enjoy but i did panic a bit at the mash stage!

I think i will do the same brew again next time but try to refine everything and iron out my issues, i made plenty of notes as suggested so i have more to go off next time.

I have made a keggle and managed to find a water tank jacket on the cheap which i have made into a big sleeve so over the course of a hour i only lost 1c which i was really pleased with! I gave it a damn good stirring but the temp just didn't come down, i put the grain i needed into my fermentation fridge earlier in the day bringing its temp to around 20c and i will be honest i didn't do any math on the water temp drop when adding the grain, just did a quick google and rolled with it, but i will have my strike temp lower next time round.

I spoke to the shop and asked for the grain to be milled as fine as they could make it and the guy said that "it is pretty well milled" and that he does brew in the bag and gets good efficiency, however i have watch many a video and in my opinion it could have been a lot finer but i can't say i saw any whole grain. I might have a look around for some DIY mill plans as i cant afford to buy one.

I bought a pully and fixed it to my step ladder so i could pull the bag out and tie it off, worked a charm! This and some decent gloves i gave the bag a veryyyyy good squeeze and let it try to drip off afterwards.(which it didn't because of the squeezing, i didn't sparge)

So really the main thing is to sort out my mash temp and grain to hopefully get the efficiency i need.

I'm really hoping that when i get home i find a active fermentation! What do i do if i don't? Should i buy another pack of yeast and pitch again? i wont be able to get anything until Monday now though!

 

[tesoradog1]

I have been brewing BIAB for 4 years now and use this simple formula:

take your totals grains (ex. 9lbs) and multiply x .1 - so 9 x .1=0.9

take the post mash amount, in my case i want 6.5 gallons to START my boil as I typically boil off 1 gallon an hour (which means post boil i should get 5.5 gallons)

so, 6.5 + .9=7.4 gallons to mash with

keep in mind the number of pounds of grain should include the entire grist, not just base malt. so if your recipe calls for 9lbs 2 row and 2lbs crystal, the total grains obviously would be 11, so then you would add 6.5+1.1=7.6 gallons to start mashing with.

this is what works for me. YMMV.

 

[IslandLizard]

Although Beersmith is pretty much spot on, I've been using the stupidly simple calculator at Brew365 for my volumes and temps, especially for last minute tweaks. You can easily adapt that to BIAB batch, set your total mash volume and a small sparge volume or none. Some of the "dedicated" BIAB calcs are needlessly complex.

The fastest way to cool down a mash is adding cold water or if you have easy access, ice cubes or crushed ice to your mash and stir. Your chilling coil is probably much slower in that scenario. Use an educated guess on how much to use, although you could print out a few common calculations such as: cold water - 1 qt -2 degrees. If you undershoot, it's much harder to go UP in temp, I can tell you that.

If it was indeed milled finely to some BIAB standard (some shops do) you may have denatured some enzymes. It won't hurt to let the mash go another hour if so needed to eek the last sugars out of the starch.

That said, check the accuracy of your thermometer! Both in ice and boiling water. Recalibrate if possible. Most do so in melting ice (0°C).

A $25 knock off Corona (corn) mill can grind your grain to BIAB fineness. Or flour, if you really tighten it down.

 

[Kris Brew]

I have been brewing BIAB for 4 years now and use this simple formula:

take your totals grains (ex. 9lbs) and multiply x .1 - so 9 x .1=0.9

take the post mash amount, in my case i want 6.5 gallons to START my boil as I typically boil off 1 gallon an hour (which means post boil i should get 5.5 gallons)

so, 6.5 + .9=7.4 gallons to mash with

keep in mind the number of pounds of grain should include the entire grist, not just base malt. so if your recipe calls for 9lbs 2 row and 2lbs crystal, the total grains obviously would be 11, so then you would add 6.5+1.1=7.6 gallons to start mashing with.

this is what works for me. YMMV.

Fortunately the water measurement instructions that i followed were all converted to metric and had explanations which made what the math quite easy.. with a calculator!ha So i will try this again and see how i go.

The fastest way to cool down a mash is adding cold water or if you have easy access, ice cubes or crushed ice to your mash and stir. Your chilling coil is probably much slower in that scenario. Use an educated guess on how much to use, although you could print out a few common calculations such as: cold water - 1 qt -2 degrees. If you undershoot, it's much harder to go UP in temp, I can tell you that.

I just didn't have enough ice and i didn't want to add too much water but to be fair, with how cold the tap water is at the moment the wort chiller took no time at all, but next time around i will be lowering my strike temp so i don't encounter the same issue.

That said, check the accuracy of your thermometer! Both in ice and boiling water. Recalibrate if possible. Most do so in melting ice (0°C).

I have 2 digital thermometers and i also have a manual jobby, put all of them in my FV Fridge and left them for a hour to find they were all hitting the same temps so i'm pretty confident i don't have any calibration issues.

A $25 knock off Corona (corn) mill can grind your grain to BIAB fineness. Or flour, if you really tighten it down.

i didn't realise you could get you could buy them so cheap! Just had a browse on ebay and found what maybe suitable, could you have quick nose and let me know?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Home-Cas...h=item2863e6ecce:g:msAAAOSwtcZbdRtU:rk:2:pf:0

 

[Kris Brew]

Oh and i forgot to say, when i got home last night i found that i have active fermentation which was both very exciting and relieving!!haha

 

[jimmyjusa]

I bought a knockoff Corona mill, bought an 8mm bolt to replace the one that holds the handle on and can use a 13mm bit driver with a drill to power it. The handle can still be put on instead, it just has a possibility of sliding off. I haven't used the drill for a full session of grinding due to the noise and when I've ground my grains i was the only one awake in the house.
My last batch i had about 85% bh efficiency and that's my second batch using it, 6th overall.

 

[Kris Brew]

I bought a knockoff Corona mill, bought an 8mm bolt to replace the one that holds the handle on and can use a 13mm bit driver with a drill to power it. The handle can still be put on instead, it just has a possibility of sliding off. I haven't used the drill for a full session of grinding due to the noise and when I've ground my grains i was the only one awake in the house.
My last batch i had about 85% bh efficiency and that's my second batch using it, 6th overall.

Well that's good enough for me, i had no idea i could get one as cheap as that!

 

[jimmyjusa]

Well that's good enough for me, i had no idea i could get one as cheap as that!

I actually wrapped a plastic grocery bag and tied the handles around the handle shaft to keep the dust down, then cut a hole in the bag once i get started so the grains then drop into the bucket. Kind of janky looking but it gets the job done.

 

[balrog]

Look up the My Ugly Junk thread for some great Corona builds--in buckets, on benches, etc.

 

[Kris Brew]

Look up the My Ugly Junk thread for some great Corona builds--in buckets, on benches, etc

Thanks balrog, that is super handy! I know to a decent bucket that i can have from work so i will get myself setup.

 

[Kris Brew]

So i have another question, this is regarding my FV, you will see how i have it setup from my pic, i have found that the lid is swelling so i lifted the blow off pipe higher up in the bottle of sanitizer(half filled) this allowed it to bubble away for a couple of days, now i have found that it is not bubbling but the lid is swelling still. If i press down on the swollen lid a bit i get bubbles... is there something i have done wrong with my setup that is causing this? Pipe too long, bottle too low ect..??

I know it is still fermenting because this morning i pressed down on the lid to release some of the pressure and this afternoon it was back under pressure.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Oh and everything was sanitised just before setup.(I can't fit a airlock, not quite enough headroom)