Bottled water only option for now

[hilljack13]

I did a search on bottled water use and found a great amount of info. So much that my head is spinning. While I continue to wait on the spike mill to do any brewing, I ordered a kit that was already milled. If not I would have to wait another 2+ months....

Anyway, all the videos and posts always show folks adjusting their water. My only option is bottled for now. I have zero testers and zero salts, etc available. I used bottled water before when doing extracts and didn't seem to have a problem.

I found one site that tested the wally world water and had a pH 6.8. For generic brewing....would it be advisable to add a bit of distilled to this? I also read that the mash would bring the pH down. For reference I have the Caribou Slobber I'm going to do.

I plan on ordering the necessary items, but again, without the mill I'm stuck.

EDIT: Does anyone use this pH & TDS meter

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

As a SWAG (without label information) it's likely to be RO or low mineral water.

ph of the source water doesn't matter. The mineral content of the source water does matter.

The labels on the bottle (or information at the bottlers web site) may indicate that it is water run through a reverse osmosis process. Brewing with RO water is a well known technique.

If the labels on the bottle suggest that it is spring water, there may be additional information on mineral content at the bottlers web site.

One approach would be to assume the bottled water is RO water and brew accordingly. If you get off flavors, troubleshoot, adjust, and repeat.

If you can review the bottle labels and add additional information (or photos of the labels), that would be helpful.

eta: Caribou Slobber is NB's kit for an American Brown Ale. The kit ingredients used to be (and may still be, but I haven't looked in a while) a "dead ringer" for CYBI's Big Sky Moose Drool 'clone' recipe attempt.

 

[BeerAndTele]

No salts, eh? I think I‘d roll with spring water (low minerality) rather than distilled (no minerality). Using something labeled “Drinking Water“ is a bit more of a crapshoot because you really don’t know what the mineral content is. You should be in the ballpark with spring in an amber like Moose Drool. As said above, it’s not the pH of the source water that matters; it’s the alkalinity. Also, Distilled is a good choice when doing extract beers because the needed minerals are included in the extract itself.

 

[fluketamer]

No salts, eh? I think I‘d roll with spring water (low minerality) rather than distilled (no minerality). Using something labeled “Drinking Water“ is a bit more of a crapshoot because you really don’t know what the mineral content is. You should be in the ballpark with spring in an amber like Moose Drool. As said above, it’s not the pH of the source water that matters; it’s the alkalinity. Also, Distilled is a good choice when doing extract beers because the needed minerals are included in the extract itself.

i was just going to say spring water over distilled.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

an amber like Moose Drool

-- Moose Drool - Big Sky Brewing

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

i was just going to say spring water over distilled.

For all-grain? Definitely go with spring water. For malt extract? I'd lean towards distilled.

 

[BeerAndTele]

View attachment 839110
-- Moose Drool - Big Sky Brewing

Ah yes, Brown Ale … I stand corrected.

 

[hilljack13]

Reading through some of Palmers brew book. Think my head is spinning now. Tried to look at getting some salts but all the names are running together. Going to have to re-read again.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Reading through some of Palmers brew book. Think my head is spinning now. Tried to look at getting some salts but all the names are running together. Going to have to re-read again.

When brewing with RO, distilled (or perhaps spring water) ...

a gentle starting point for brewing salts is

• Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery

which is the "cliff notes" for

• A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

---

Palmer also has some recent (2022, 2023) videos that help with understanding what is in 4th edition of How to Brew.

 

[keggert]

In the Brew Science forum there is an easy guide to follow for water adjustments. If I remember correctly all the items you need would be Gypsum and Calcium Chloride. I've always skipped the Sauermalz as I use phosphoric acid to adjust the Ph. It will get you in the ball park if you are using RO water


Water Chemistry Primer

 

[redrocker652002]

Reading through some of Palmers brew book. Think my head is spinning now. Tried to look at getting some salts but all the names are running together. Going to have to re-read again.

I found the same thing when I read his book. Way too technical for me. People here have great info and can present it much better in my opinion

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've always skipped the Sauermalz as I use phosphoric acid to adjust the Ph.

FWIW, on of the strengths of using acidulated malt (Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery) is that the amount to add is included in the article.

Point being this: with RO, distilled, (or perhaps low mineral spring water) you don't need a "water chemistry" spreadsheet to start making adjustments.

 

[hotbeer]

ph of your bottled water means nothing by itself alone. The water probably doesn't have much buffering capacity and the ph will be driven by your mash instead. This is a all-grain kit isn't it?

Many bottled waters will have a website listed on them that you can go to and find the analysis of that water. Once you have that analysis, you'll be able to find out if that water has the the needed stuff for your beer. There are water chemistry calculators for beer all over the internet. One can be gotten to from the Brewing Software link at the top of any page on this site. You might have to widen your browser, it's just to the right of the Wiki tab in the black bar.

For all-grain pale ales and such, I get fine results with no additions. I've never done a red ale or darker. However for stouts, mine were all terrible. I'm learning more about it water chemistry. But calcium seems to be the only really necessary thing to me so far. In both it's chloride and sulfate form.

 

[hilljack13]

This is a all-grain kit isn't it?

Yes. I have a BF account. I haven't really messed with it much. I should probably get to it.

 

[beren]

Or check out Download Bru'n Water lots of good info! and a pretty easy spreadsheet too

 

[beren]

FWIW, on of the strengths of using acidulated malt (Water Chemistry – How to Build Your Water – Bertus Brewery) is that the amount to add is included in the article.

I thought I read the problem with that is that the amount of acid isn't consistent so if you use the same amount next time you'll get a different ph.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I thought I read the problem with that is that the amount of acid isn't consistent so if you use the same amount next time you'll get a different ph.

If you find the actual source of what you might have read - and - if you take the time to confirm that the situation is reproducible, let me know.

In the mean time, I'll continue to brew enjoyable beers using it.

 

[beren]

If you find the actual source of what you might have read - and - if you take the time to confirm that the situation is reproducible, let me know.

In the mean time, I'll continue to brew enjoyable beers using it.

General 5 | Bru'n Water and Weyermann uses "approx." in it's info page for saurmaltz. It's only lactic acid sprayed onto normal malt and dried, why deal with having a separate specialty malt when you can just use the same stuff they spray on the malt yourself. But if it works for you, great!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It's only lactic acid sprayed onto normal malt and dried, why deal with having a separate specialty malt

Maybe because it's easy to use, it doesn't require a spreadsheet to use, and it works.

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone to "take the time to confirm that the situation is reproducible"

---

At this point, there are (at least) two approaches from different water experts.

Both work.

 

[beren]

Maybe because it's easy to use, it doesn't require a spreadsheet to use, and it works.

for 88% lactic, use 0.5 mL per kg of malt to lower the pH by 0.1. Just in case anyone else wants to consider it.
Many pharmacies have 1ml syringes for infant medicine, I've gotten one by asking when picking up a 'script.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

for 88% lactic, use 0.5 mL per kg of malt to lower the pH by 0.1. Just in case anyone else wants to consider it.

And the next step would be to calculate how many 0.5 mL adjustments are needed.

HomeBrewTalk: making water adjustments complicated since, perhaps, 2454481.98001. But someone might want to run a poll to get a consensus answer.

 

[scrap iron]

The formula that beren stated is an easy tool and I have seen it on Braukaiser.com site. I've used it a few times to adjust ph at the boil especially for lagers.
example: for 10 lbs. malt=4.54 kilograms x .5ml of Lactic acid = 2.27ml Latic acid [88%] to lower ph by 0.1.
I've checked it with a ph meter and it's pretty accurate.
As far as using acid or acid malt I have no preference and have used both. I use Lactic acid now adays as I have it on hand. cheers

 

[Ramjet]

EDIT: Does anyone use this pH & TDS meter

I would stay away from this PH meter. It looks just like an INKBIRD one that I have. The meter itself is ok, but the battery doesn't seem to last very long and I'm not sure I can find a replacement for it. Also the calibration solutions you have to mix up instead of purchasing premixed.

 

[mac_1103]

I also have an Inkbird pH meter that looks just like that one. It takes four LR44 batteries which are easy to find and replace. I have not had to replace them yet. Adding pre-measured buffer powders to distilled water isn't hard either, and there's nothing that stops you from buying the pre-mixed buffer solutions when you need fresh ones. IMO it's fine for brewing, but if you're the sort of person who thinks you need a precision analytical meter to make good beer then you're going to need to look elsewhere (and spend more too).

 

[Ramjet]

I also have an Inkbird pH meter that looks just like that one. It takes four LR44 batteries which are easy to find and replace. I have not had to replace them yet. Adding pre-measured buffer powders to distilled water isn't hard either, and there's nothing that stops you from buying the pre-mixed buffer solutions when you need fresh ones. IMO it's fine for brewing, but if you're the sort of person who thinks you need a precision analytical meter to make good beer then you're going to need to look elsewhere (and spend more too).

Thanks for the info about the batteries. I mixed up the buffer solutions and keep it in sealed jars for calibration. You are correct it's fine for brewing

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I did a search on bottled water use and found a great amount of info. So much that my head is spinning. While I continue to wait on the spike mill to do any brewing, I ordered a kit that was already milled. If not I would have to wait another 2+ months....

Anyway, all the videos and posts always show folks adjusting their water. My only option is bottled for now. I have zero testers and zero salts, etc available. I used bottled water before when doing extracts and didn't seem to have a problem.

I found one site that tested the wally world water and had a pH 6.8. For generic brewing....would it be advisable to add a bit of distilled to this? I also read that the mash would bring the pH down. For reference I have the Caribou Slobber I'm going to do.

I plan on ordering the necessary items, but again, without the mill I'm stuck.

EDIT: Does anyone use this pH & TDS meter

I read back at all of the posts and you're getting loads of advice on water types and treatments, but what makes you think you need any treatments to your water? If I missed something, my apologies.

I'd be careful just following advice from a book until you know exactly what you're working with. There's a lot of places to get your water tested . Again, if you already know ignore this.

 

[hilljack13]

I read back at all of the posts and you're getting loads of advice on water types and treatments, but what makes you think you need any treatments to your water? If I missed something, my apologies.

I'd be careful just following advice from a book until you know exactly what you're working with. There's a lot of places to get your water tested . Again, if you already know ignore this.

It's tap water and leaves buildup in my water dispenser on my fridge. I haven't had it tested, but I wouldn't trust it. I do drink it from the fridge only. It's only carbon filtered so all the other stuff is still there. I wouldn't concerned normally since I had only done extract, but moving to all grain/BIAB I would like to learn a bit more. For now I'm just going with spring water until I get smarter on what I have and need.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

It's tap water and leaves buildup in my water dispenser on my fridge. I haven't had it tested, but I wouldn't trust it. I do drink it from the fridge only. It's only carbon filtered so all the other stuff is still there. I wouldn't concerned normally since I had only done extract, but moving to all grain/BIAB I would like to learn a bit more. For now I'm just going with spring water until I get smarter on what I have and need.

OK, that makes more sense, thanks for the explanation. You should really get it checked though for several reasons. Safety being one and maybe there's some treatments that can be done to make it more usable. If it's your home it might be better all the way around to have it done.

I'm on a well but our water has lots if iron so I have a whole house filter. It really helps with those iron stains.

 

[hotbeer]

If you are on a municipal water system, then they likely will provide you a analysis of the water. Might check and see if they have several previous reports. It can vary by the time of the year depending on source. Some cities put it on their website.

Still, you have to brew with it to know for certain. The things that taste bad in it or cause the stains aren't necessarily what beer water chemistry concerns itself with. And those things might not actually affect the taste of your beer in a bad way.