Beer trub as mead yeast nutrient?

[Dland]

Would beer trub make good mead nutrient? Most of the solids are dead yeast, mixed with a little cold break from beer, no doubt.

Question occurred to me after doing a routine trub dump out of a lager, now that I have 5 gallons of mead working away on adjacent table.

 

[Dan O]

Would beer trub make good mead nutrient? Most of the solids are dead yeast, mixed with a little cold break from beer, no doubt.

Question occurred to me after doing a routine trub dump out of a lager, now that I have 5 gallons of mead working away on adjacent table.

I misread the question. Sorry, I do not know for sure. I would think you might incur some of the beer flavors if being used as a nutrient source. Maybe if it was washed you could minimize the chance of that.
I hope this helps you.
Happy meading

 

[Dland]

Thanks for the reply. I was asking if beer trub (dead yeast solids from bottom of fermentor) can be used as nutrient, not for re pitch or mead fermentation. I typically get at least a pint of the solids in standard dump a week or so into primary fermentation. I guess I could heat the trub to make sure it is killed.

I regularly use dry beer yeast for multiple batches in sealed conical, it is good for many brews if fermentor kept sealed & infection free.

 

[Maylar]

the mead will taste like beer. yuck.

 

[PCABrewing]

... I was asking if beer trub (dead yeast solids from bottom of fermentor) can be used as nutrient...

I regularly use dry beer yeast for multiple batches in sealed conical, it is good for many brews if fermentor kept sealed & infection free.

Do you mean as nutrient for humans or animals to consume? Edit: because I'm pretty sure Yeast doesn't eat dead Yeast.

As for your multiple batches do you pitch once and then ferment multiple sequential batches without resetting (cleaning etc).
So fill fermenter, pitch, ferment, rack and refill, ferment, rack and refill, ferment....
Do I understand it correctly?

 

[The_Antikveik]

Although potentially highly nutritious for yeast I suspect it’s not that straightforward and probably requires processing of some kind. I’m not sure if there’s much bioavailability in intact dead cells. Most nutrients are probably locked away and not freely accessible. Wyeast do a nutrient blend for wine that might be suitable for mead?

 

[Dland]

Do you mean as nutrient for humans or animals to consume? Edit: because I'm pretty sure Yeast doesn't eat dead Yeast.

As for your multiple batches do you pitch once and then ferment multiple sequential batches without resetting (cleaning etc).
So fill fermenter, pitch, ferment, rack and refill, ferment, rack and refill, ferment....
Do I understand it correctly?

My question was if trub dump yield from beer fermentor would be good nutrient for mead. I'm pretty sure yeast does eat dead yeast, as that is what is main component of many yeast nutrients.

If I ever need to eat beer trub, maybe feed it to chickens somehow, and eat eggs or them.

Multiple sequential batches without reset yes. There is no re pitch, the yeasty beer and yeast cake residue get the next batch of wort going nicely. Not having to clean already sanitized and sealed fermentor, no need to add more yeast, it is plenty healthy and ready to go when new wort added.

Right now I'm running S-189 after two previous batches. Four runs on 34/70 before that, and a couple of 7 or 8 on US-05 runs before it cooled down to lager season.

I'll add this would not be as easy to accomplish without conical or similar fermentation vessel that one could easily do trub/solid dumps.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Yes, dead yeast cells are a source of nutrients for living yeast. Though mazers also use other enhancements for keeping yeast happy. However, the issues brought up about various unwanted flavors ending up in mead are also true. I suppose there are some experimental meads that have had hops added, but it certainly is not typical. With that said, it is your mead and you can what you want.

 

[PCABrewing]

I'm pretty sure yeast does eat dead yeast, as that is what is main component of many yeast nutrients.

If I ever need to eat beer trub, maybe feed it to chickens somehow, and eat eggs or them.

Multiple sequential batches without reset yes. There is no re pitch, the yeasty beer and yeast cake residue get the next batch of wort going nicely. Not having to clean already sanitized and sealed fermentor, no need to add more yeast, it is plenty healthy and ready to go when new wort added.

Right now I'm running S-189 after two previous batches. Four runs on 34/70 before that, and a couple of 7 or 8 on US-05 runs before it cooled down to lager season.

I'll add this would not be as easy to accomplish without conical or similar fermentation vessel that one could easily do trub/solid dumps.

Wow, I learned something new, thanks internet.

So you do dump periodically. I was wondering what you did about the continuous decrease in fermentation volume otherwise.
Cool process.

 

[PCABrewing]

... There is no re pitch, the yeasty beer and yeast cake residue get the next batch of wort going nicely. Not having to clean already sanitized and sealed fermentor, no need to add more yeast, it is plenty healthy and ready to go when new wort added.

/QUOTE]
When you refill with wort, do you agitate or simply fill from the dump port to get things back in suspension?

 

[JimRausch]

Before I was able to locate some Fermaid O, I used to boil 1 teaspoon of bread yeast and use that along with my Wyeast nutrient in my meads and fruit wines. So, as long as you boiled the trub to kill any live yeast/bugs, it would probably work as a nutrient. But I believe you wouldn't need much- a teaspoon-tablespoon probably.

 

[PCABrewing]

Yes, dead yeast cells are a source of nutrients for living yeast.

That is the conclusion I came to. It isn't the yeast eating dead yeast per se, rather the yeast consuming the nutrients released by the decomposition of the dead yeast. Kinda like plants benefiting from decaying vegetation of prior seasons, yet even in that case additional nutrients are added. That seems to be the process. Chris White details the nutrient needs in the Yeast book and indicates that O2 and Zinc are the only two that are not typically already found in malt-based wort. Is it possible that the zinc taken up is subsequently released upon decomposition?

 

[Dan O]

Yeast ARE cannibals! They eat their dead.

 

[Kickass]

I’d be suspicious of how many dead yeast are in your trub. Dormant, most likely, dead, I don’t know. You may need to boil your trub to get your desired results.

 

[The_Antikveik]

Yes, dead yeast cells are a source of nutrients for living yeast.

But the problem is, naturally, it doesn’t occur over the short timescales relevant to a fermentation. Yeast nutrients need to have sufficient bioavailability immediately upon addition, at the beginning of fermentation, then periodically for a mead. A simple experiment involving fermentation performance in mead with trub additions vs mead with commercial yeast nutrient blend additions is likely to support this prediction. So although your statement is true, it fails to consider the problem in the correct context.

 

[Miraculix]

But the problem is, naturally, it doesn’t occur over the short timescales relevant to a fermentation. Yeast nutrients need to have sufficient bioavailability immediately upon addition, at the beginning of fermentation, then periodically for a mead. A simple experiment involving fermentation performance in mead with trub additions vs mead with commercial yeast nutrient blend additions is likely to support this prediction. So although your statement is true, it fails to consider the problem in the correct context.

Boiling it destroys the cells and makes the nutrients bioavailable.

 

[The_Antikveik]

Boiling it destroys the cells and makes the nutrients bioavailable.

There's no shortage of methods to lyse yeast cells. Boiling is probably the simplest and crudest method. But cell lysis, even when more sophisticated methods are used, to increase bioavailability of yeast nutrients, translates into very little if the yeast cells haven't been cultured to be nutritious in the first place. Yeast cells aren't nutritious simply by virtue of being yeast. Like all living things, they're what they 'eat' (assimilate). There's no breaking fundamental laws of physics here, to create what's not there already. The effort and assumptions to process your own shabby yeast nutrient at home vs a few bucks for some commercially available specified yeast nutrient blend It's a no-brainer.

 

[madscientist451]

How about an experiment? Two side by side batches, one with Fermaid O, one with dead yeast cells? I'd do it myself if I wasn't working 7 days a week.

 

[The_Antikveik]

How about an experiment? Two side by side batches, one with Fermaid O, one with dead yeast cells? I'd do it myself if I wasn't working 7 days a week.

But please let's make it more valid than a brülosophical statistical toss-up. And use some commercial yeast nutrient blend, too. Things have progressed.