Attn: cold weather brewers, I need an alternative to outdoor water supply

[ILMSTMF]

I finally fixed my process to use outdoor spigot (for garden hose, etc) for brew day water needs. Strike water via RV hose and cleaning. I'm very pleased with how much better my brew day went. However, it won't be safe to use that spigot in cold weather months.

The only solution I came up with involves a ball valve spigot I have in my heated garage. That pipe is on the same wall that the washing machine water supply pipe is. My assumption is that because the washing machine can be used in cold months without pipes freezing, so, too, can the nearby spigot, Except, the hose would need to be extended from the garage and out to the driveway. Figure a 50' daisy chain.

I haven't tried this before (duh) and, of course, I don't want to damage my home. Smart idea? I welcome suggestions, thanks in advance!

 

[VikeMan]

You mention the garage is heated. So on its own, the valve isn't going to freeze. As long as you're not leaving the hose outside (with water in it) while not in use, I wouldn't expect any problems with freezing.

Personally though, I wouldn't run brewing water through garden hoses. To me, it smells nasty. Maybe RV hoses are different.

 

[ITV]

Do you brew inside your garage? Just trying to figure out why the hose needs to go out to the driveway.

If the weather is below freezing then if you can crack open the water valve on the end of your hose to let the water flow to prevent the water from freezing inside the hose. It seems like you won't need the hose outside the entire time and can bring it inside your heated garage between uses.

 

[ILMSTMF]

You mention the garage is heated. So on its own, the valve isn't going to freeze. As long as you're not leaving the hose outside (with water in it) while not in use, I wouldn't expect any problems with freezing.

Personally though, I wouldn't run brewing water through garden hoses. To me, it smells nasty. Maybe RV hoses are different.

Indeed, the hose is stored in the same heated garage. The heat never runs to the point of "Whoa, it's toasty in here." but it's held in the mid 60s. Kicks on as needed to protect garage / save energy costs.

I should have mentioned that I am now using an RV hose for the water supply. Previously, sink water was carried about 3-4 gallons at a time to the BK outside.

Do you brew inside your garage? Just trying to figure out why the hose needs to go out to the driveway.

Driveway is the previous brew position. I've moved to the patio. But, for cold months, back to driveway to accommodate the indoor spigot. Cleaning with the hose has significantly improved my brew day. Not brewing in garage 1) because I'm still on propane 2) vehicle is stored in there 3) steam concerns

It seems like you won't need the hose outside the entire time and can bring it inside your heated garage between uses.

Yup. It's one of those goofy slinky hoses that compresses when put in storage. Between uses, stored inside.

 

[ITV]

Not brewing in garage 1) because I'm still on propane 2) vehicle is stored in there 3) steam concerns

When I brewed in my garage in the winter (using natural gas) I would pull the cars outside, keep the garage door open at least 12", turn on my ceiling fan and garage heater with a fire extinguisher handy and a CO detector. The only draw back was since I don't have a floor drain, the driveway could get icy from washing down my equipment.
Now I brew in my basement with a externally vented hood, CO detector and fire extinguisher. Saves my back from hauling my brew equipment from the basement to the garage. I also rigged up a connection from my RO water to my brew kettle which also saves my back from hauling 5 gallon water jugs around.

 

[mattdee1]

I am an outdoor/garage brewer using a classic hodge-podge homebrew setup and winter is definitely not helpful. But, where there's a will, there's a way.

I buy RO water from the store so that aspect doesn't change with the seasons. Where water supply comes into play is for cleaning and wort chilling. I've done several brews where I keep going in and out of the house for water - pretty much sucks.

Having a spigot inside a heated garage is a fine solution, so long as you don't mind turning your driveway into a skating rink. If heated garage is not possible, there are "frost free" spigots that are meant to prevent freezing of hose spigots in cold weather. They work by creating the seal several inches backward so that the physical shut-off actually happens inside the warm house: What is a “frost free” hose spigot and how does it work? - Junior's Plumbing | Spotsylvania, Caroline, and Stafford VA What Is a "Frost Free" Hose Spigot & How Does It Work?

I've been meaning to have one of these installed but just haven't gotten around to it.

On a semi-related note, I've also started trying to make use of the cold weather. On certain brews, when I'm done the brew day, I just put my kettle out in the freezing cold to chill. It takes several hours but it works, with no negative effects that I can detect. I say "on certain brews" because I only really do it on beers that are not characterized by lots of late hop additions (i.e., blondes, ambers, browns, stouts, etc.) Beers with lots of late hops need to be adjusted, because all of that additional time at elevated temperature has impacts on the hops.

 

[ILMSTMF]

Where water supply comes into play is for cleaning and wort chilling. I've done several brews where I keep going in and out of the house for water - pretty much sucks.

Sounds like it, haha
Trying to avoid that, if I can.

I've been meaning to have one of these installed but just haven't gotten around to it.

A great concept. If you can swing it, go for it. I don't have the budget though...

Having a spigot inside a heated garage is a fine solution, so long as you don't mind turning your driveway into a skating rink.

Well, I've got that spigot in the same wall with clothes washer supply pipe so, again, I'm inclined to believe that spigot won't freeze. Outbound IC water, I can collect the first hot supply into bucket(s) then send the rest into empty washing machine for a drain out. Cleaning the kettle and all parts... I will just have to suck it up and bring it to the lawn, extend the hose from inside out to lawn for spraying it down. The benefit being the hose's high-pressure spray nozzle. Thanks!

 

[Jim R]

I like the winter months (Wisconsin - long winters) for my immersion chiller because I can use snow in my recirculating cooler. I keep a hose in my 40 degree garage that I can hook up to the outside faucet for the first 5-10 min of cooling. I keep 5 gal of that hot water for later cleaning and run the rest onto the lawn. Then I switch to my recirculating cooler with my cheap pond pump and just keep throwing snow into the cooler. It saves me the hassle of making ice in the summer.

My outside faucet has an inside shut off valve. When I am done using the faucet in the winter I shut off the inside valve and open the outside faucet for a few seconds to drain that water out. I have never had problems in the winter using the faucet like this.

 

[ILMSTMF]

The season has arrived...

My outside faucet has an inside shut off valve. When I am done using the faucet in the winter I shut off the inside valve and open the outside faucet for a few seconds to drain that water out. I have never had problems in the winter using the faucet like this.

That is a pretty good idea.
Theoretically, suppose you've got 0F weather, or thereabouts. Open the valve inside the home. Get outside and use spigot with your hose to IC. That water is moving, there should be no concern about it freezing, right? The same concept of leaving your sinks barely open in the cold season - a slow drip is still moving water which shouldn't freeze...because it's moving!

I'm writing all of this because I'd much rather work on the patio then garage & driveway. Patio spigot - I probably have a shutoff valve in the house. I don't know. That spigot is ground level (very annoying). There's another outside spigot which is prob 4 or 5' high. The shutoff valve is in the same wall back in the house. No idea what bearing the height of these spigots has on the potential for a shutoff valve... clueless homeowner.

Anyway, assuming the patio spigot has an inside shutoff valve, I will probably follow your method. Cheers!

 

[ILMSTMF]

Anyway, assuming the patio spigot has an inside shutoff valve, I will probably follow your method.

Indeed, inside shutoff valve. An inconvenient location but, whatever. Have done this twice already and it's worked out alright (those days were in the mid 30s). Except this weekend's brew day is looking at a high of 28F with a low of 21F... Even with following @Jim R 's advice, I'm still paranoid about operating the spigot in these lower temps. Will someone talk me off the ledge?

Alternatively, and I really don't want to be bothered doing this (because it seems like extra work and I've never actually done it before), I can recirculate water from a cooler (bucket would be easier for me, actually). There's snow on the lawn that probably will still be there on brew day. I have a 1/3HP utility pump normally used for tap cleaning... Hmmm.

 

[hottpeper13]

I'm assuming you have a sliding patio door. I would take a 2x4 cut to the height of the door and drill a hole in the bottom and run a hose from your kitchen sink. Or you could use a 2" thick piece of ridged insulation. Figure out a way to keep it attached while brewing so you can open and close the door. Hide it behind the curtains when not brewing.

 

[Dland]

Indeed, inside shutoff valve. An inconvenient location but, whatever. Have done this twice already and it's worked out alright (those days were in the mid 30s). Except this weekend's brew day is looking at a high of 28F with a low of 21F... Even with following @Jim R 's advice, I'm still paranoid about operating the spigot in these lower temps. Will someone talk me off the ledge?

Not sure what you are afraid is going to happen if you open spigot in those temps, in the 20sF, it won't freeze instantly. I brew outside below freezing regularly, as long as I start w ice free hose, I usually don't have a problem. Worst case scenario I have to bring hose in for a bit, or swap out a second hose that was kept indoors.

I think you mentioned you had one of those slinky hoses, you might be better off w regular hose, as they are wider diameter & less surface area, so won't freeze as fast. I use a heavy duty rubber coated ones as opposed to cheap plastic ones, they stay more flexible in cold and probably are better insulated.

As mentioned above, you could leave water on some, or even drain hose between uses. Hose will freeze & stop before spigot, even if it is not a "frost free" one. I use a yard hydrant for water supply, and it open the whole time I'm brewing, with hose end valve off between uses, have only ever had hose freeze.

 

[mcmeador]

The season has arrived...



That is a pretty good idea.
Theoretically, suppose you've got 0F weather, or thereabouts. Open the valve inside the home. Get outside and use spigot with your hose to IC. That water is moving, there should be no concern about it freezing, right? The same concept of leaving your sinks barely open in the cold season - a slow drip is still moving water which shouldn't freeze...because it's moving!

The idea behind opening your faucets slightly in cold weather isn’t to keep the water moving (a drip is barely moving). It’s to relieve pressure in the pipes in the event that the water in them freezes. Because water expands as it freezes, keeping the faucets closed means it has no where to go but outward, thereby cracking your pipes. With the faucets open partially, it can expand along the pipe and push water out of the open faucet as it freezes.

If the washer has water lines running through the same wall with no issue freezing, your only risk of freezing I would think should be on outside of your garage in your hose if it were to sit idle too long with water in it.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I'm assuming you have a sliding patio door. I would take a 2x4 cut to the height of the door and drill a hole in the bottom and run a hose from your kitchen sink. Or you could use a 2" thick piece of ridged insulation. Figure out a way to keep it attached while brewing so you can open and close the door. Hide it behind the curtains when not brewing.

Sorry for not clarifying. The front door leads to the porch; not sliding doors there. Plus, the kitchen sink doesn't have a thread on it to attach a hose to. In fact, there is no water source on that floor that allows to thread a hose on. Maybe if I take the shower head off but now we're just getting ridiculous haha

Not sure what you are afraid is going to happen if you open spigot in those temps, in the 20sF, it won't freeze instantly. I brew outside below freezing regularly, as long as I start w ice free hose, I usually don't have a problem. Worst case scenario I have to bring hose in for a bit, or swap out a second hose that was kept indoors.

I think you mentioned you had one of those slinky hoses, you might be better off w regular hose, as they are wider diameter & less surface area, so won't freeze as fast. I use a heavy duty rubber coated ones as opposed to cheap plastic ones, they stay more flexible in cold and probably are better insulated.

As mentioned above, you could leave water on some, or even drain hose between uses. Hose will freeze & stop before spigot, even if it is not a "frost free" one. I use a yard hydrant for water supply, and it open the whole time I'm brewing, with hose end valve off between uses, have only ever had hose freeze.

The fear is with pipes being traumatized from water that could freeze in them. Clearly I don't have a good understanding of physics but, instead, subscribe to grandpa's and uncle's and mom's cautioning to "turn the supply off in the winter". Not an entirely misinformation; if we're looking at this positively, their advice is in line with "better to be safe than sorry". Which leads me to why I started this thread haha

The slinky hose I use is the kind of gimmick thing that shrinks to a compact coil when there is no water in it. It stays inside between uses and I've never had an issue with it. Indeed, all hoses are drained between uses.

The idea behind opening your faucets slightly in cold weather isn’t to keep the water moving (a drip is barely moving). It’s to relieve pressure in the pipes in the event that the water in them freezes. Because water expands as it freezes, keeping the faucets closed means it has no where to go but outward, thereby cracking your pipes. With the faucets open partially, it can expand along the pipe and push water out of the open faucet as it freezes.

If the washer has water lines running through the same wall with no issue freezing, your only risk of freezing I would think should be on outside of your garage in your hose if it were to sit idle too long with water in it.

Enlightening!

Again. the only fear is causing some damage to the pipes in the house. Sounds like I've got little to worry about though so I'm just going to do as usual, thanks!

 

[Jim R]

I brewed again today in Wisconsin in my garage. It was -1 degree when I started and about 12 degrees when I finished. My garage is unheated but stays about 40 degrees from the house heat. I again used my outdoor frost-free faucet as I always do. I had my 2 hoses stored on a hook in my garage. When it was time to run water through my immersion chiller, I brought both hoses outside and hooked the input hose to the outdoor faucet and the output hose onto the snow covered grass. I ran it for 10-15 minutes before I switched to my cooler system filled with snow and my utility pump. As soon as I switched to the cooler system I drained the 2 hoses and hung them back up in my garage. It worked perfect and I have never had a problem. I later even used that outdoor faucet for clean up.

As noted above, my outdoor faucet is a frost-free faucet with the valve about 8-10" inside the house. I also have a pex valve inside that I could use to shut off the water supply to that faucet but I usually don't even bother to shut that off.