Are Sulfites Optional?

[smyrnaquince]

During racking and when bottling, are sulfites required or optional?

If I ferment the wine out completely, there shouldn't be anything for yeast to further consume, so I shouldn't need sulfites to stop the yeast. My understanding is that the alcohol in the wine would stop other nasties (yeast and/or bacteria) from growing. Are sulfites needed "just to be safe" or for some other reason?

If I do need them, I've heard to add them at every other racking, then again at bottling, at the rate (each time) of 1 Campden tablet per gallon. Does that sound right?

Right now, I've got a blackberry wine in the secondary, but will be making other wines, so this a a "question in general", not a question for a specific wine.

Thanks!

 

[nebben]

Free SO2 also helps keep the wine stable and helps slow or stop oxidation in the wine.

 

[Wyrmwood]

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/qa.asp

See "Brown Wine"

 

[gregbathurst]

There are other things for microbes to consume - mainly malic acid which is a major biological energy source, also nitrogen. If you don't want to use so2 you should reduce your handling of the wine to a minimum and keep the wine at a stable temperature.
SO2 gets bound to pigments so in a wine like blackberry it will be inactivated over time anyway, but its still a good insurance policy.

 

[jimmystewart]

I had a similar thought myself.

Zwetschgen posted a reply to my question that made the need for sulfites a little clearer to me. It may be helpful for you too.

Here's the thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/potassium-metabisulfite-sorbistat-k-questions-215448/

(Edited to fix that link...)

 

[Blacksmith1]

jimmystewart, your friend that got a headache is sulfite sensitive as are my wife and I. There are wines still in the bottle being sold that are old, like over 100 years old, that I don't believe have sulfites added. And even if they do I will not add them to whatever I make even if it means I am stuck drinking young wines. better to have some go bad than not be able to enjoy it in my opinion. Guess I'll just have to pasteurize everything and keep it clean.

 

[z-bob]

I'm not sure what the question is. (I know this is an old thread) My wines got a lot better when I started adding sulfites. Before that, they would be good at bottling-time and drinkable but not so good a couple months later. With sulfites, they are good when I bottle them and better with a few months aging.

 

[RPh_Guy]

"jimmystewart was last seen: Apr 30, 2016"

 

[Blacksmith1]

oops, guess I need to pay attention to dates on theses threads when I do a search.

 

[Honda88]

This is still a good topic to discuss. I just made some wine from backyard grapes and I did not add sulfites. I did pasteurize. I think sulfites are overused and sometimes not necessary at all.

 

[RPh_Guy]

This is still a good topic to discuss. I just made some wine from backyard grapes and I did not add sulfites. I did pasteurize. I think sulfites are overused and sometimes not necessary at all.

Sulfites have 2 uses: Antimicrobial and antioxidant

For pasteurized juice, you do not need sulfites before fermentation.
However, if you have UNpasteruized juice, sulfites used before fermentation to sanitize the must limit the possibility of wild microbes contributing flavor.

When aging/packaging, your wine WILL oxidize if you don't use sulfites. It's simply a matter of time and temperature (warmer temp contributes to more rapid staling).
Also, sulfites prevent wild microbes from changing the wine composition (e.g. MLF reducing acidity or AAB creating vinegar). Alcohol does not stop the wild microbes. Wild microbes are everywhere and can get into the wine regardless of whether you start with pasteurized juice.

If you're sensitive to sulfites and don't want to use them, that's fine, but you should avoid aerating (after fermentation) and drink young. Take care to make wine that tastes good young. Consider sterile filtering before packaging to reduce the possibility of spoilage from microbes.

Cheers

 

[Honda88]

I have found that if you avoid aeration completely the wine tastes fizzy because all the suspended c02.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I have found that if you avoid aeration completely the wine tastes fizzy because all the suspended c02.

Vacuum pump.
CO2 removal without adding O2

 

[Honda88]

I have never tried that but it makes sense.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Are there alternative antioxidants? I have no problem pasteurizing as we like the aromas. did a cider and took the opportunity to spice it at the same time. SWMBO really liked that.

It also occurred to me to ask, will higher ABV will protect the wine from spoilage?

 

[TechFanMD]

Are there alternative antioxidants? I have no problem pasteurizing as we like the aromas. did a cider and took the opportunity to spice it at the same time. SWMBO really liked that.

It also occurred to me to ask, will higher ABV will protect the wine from spoilage?

Why do you think sulfites are what gave you the headache? Sulfite headaches have been thoroughly debunked. There is a small percentage of people allergic to them (difficulty breathing/allergic reaction) but the headache thing has been proved over and over as not being true.

 

[Blacksmith1]

mostly due to high sulfite wines giving us worse headaches. I guess it could be from the wines being too cheap.
and the wife does get a bit of breathing issues.

 

[TechFanMD]

mostly due to high sulfite wines giving us worse headaches. I guess it could be from the wines being too cheap.
and the wife does get a bit of breathing issues.

Thanks. There are a bunch of things it can be.....but it's not the sulfites. You don't have to vworry about them (other than the other symptoms). Sulfites are in lunch meat, hot dogs, dried fruits, even in non-sulfated wine (it is also naturally occurring). Bakes goods often even have them. A lot of other every day foods have more than what you'll get from wine.

 

[Honda88]

mostly due to high sulfite wines giving us worse headaches. I guess it could be from the wines being too cheap.
and the wife does get a bit of breathing issues.

I'm more concerned that the cleaning agents used are in the wine. I dont know why but cheap liquor always makes me feel horrible. My homebrew has never given me a headache like some store bought products.

 

[Blacksmith1]

would Pasteurizing in the bottle like in this thread work for wines or meads?

 

[TechFanMD]

would Pasteurizing in the bottle like in this thread work for wines or meads?

The point is beyond prevention of further fermentation/microbial growth but a matter of preventing oxidation and degradation of the final product. Un-stabilized, the wine will have a shorter shelf life.

 

[Blacksmith1]

gotcha. critters might be dead but the air is gonna treat it like a sliced apple. so if I want a sweet sparkling wine this will work but I should still use the sulfites.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Q: Are there alternative antioxidants?
A: No, otherwise wine makers would use them!

Q: Will higher ABV will protect the wine from [microbial] spoilage?
A: To some extent, yes, but not entirely.

Q: Can cheap wine cause headaches?
A: Yes (OK, well, probably, since the science is not fully understood)! Poor quality fermentation produces many toxins besides ethanol such as methanol, other fusels, acetaldehyde, sulfide, other cogeners, etc.

A: I'm more concerned that the cleaning agents used are in the wine.
Q: What are you talking about? Fining agents are non-toxic.

Q: Would Pasteurizing in the bottle like in this thread work for wines or meads?
Sniped by @TechFanMD
A: Oxygen is enemy #1 of wine. You could steal a page from the brewer's playbook and use 22oz beer bottles (made to contain pressure unlike normal wine bottles, but similar in size to wine bottles), bottle carbonate with a measured amount of priming sugar/must (the yeast will consume some oxygen), and use oxygen-absorbing bottle caps. Wine packaged this way will probably be good for at least several months.
There will be sediment/lees in the bottle.

BTW, when you heat pasteurize your cider, those aromatics you smell are then lost for good. But if you don't mind then it's all good.

Hope this helps

 

[Blacksmith1]

helps a lot. so even if it's already bottled the heat still takes out some the.. "background" ? (for lack of a better descriptor)

 

[RPh_Guy]

helps a lot. so even if it's already bottled the heat still takes out some the.. "background" ? (for lack of a better descriptor)

I'm not sure what you're asking ..?

 

[jgmillr1]

Sulfites are in lunch meat, hot dogs

Those would be nitrites, not sulfites

 

[Blacksmith1]

I'm not sure what you're asking ..?

I know that when making jellies and such much flavor and scent can be lost to the air while evaporating the liquids to concentrate the mixture. to combat this they invented a complicated pressure cooker that traps the essential bits and still gets the water out. So I figure if the bottle is corked and then pasteurized it "should" lock in the flavors and aromas. This is of course only a half baked theory based on my half assed knowledge of these generalized concepts...

 

[TechFanMD]

Those would be nitrites, not sulfites

Yes, hot dogs have Nitrites but they also have sulfites.

 

[Blacksmith1]

lotta stuff on that list.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I know that when making jellies and such much flavor and scent can be lost to the air while evaporating the liquids to concentrate the mixture. to combat this they invented a complicated pressure cooker that traps the essential bits and still gets the water out. So I figure if the bottle is corked and then pasteurized it "should" lock in the flavors and aromas. This is of course only a half baked theory based on my half assed knowledge of these generalized concepts...

Never pasteurized bottles so I can't say for sure.. sorry.

To be clear, I would NOT recommend pasteurizing a wine bottle unless it's designed for sparking wine (champagne bottle) and you have it corked/caged.
I personally don't like bottle pasteurization because there is some risk of explosion.