Amarillo + Citra + Simcoe = GROSS

[Bobby_M]

I believe I've brewed enough hazy NEIPA to be comfortable with my grain bills and two-hop combos, and I have a few medals to back that up. I've never really brewed a classic non-hazy IPA that knocked my socks off. I started down the road of making that a project. I figured one good place to start was Meanbrews. If you're not familiar, it's an analysis of many medal winning recipes and it's an attempt to engineer the perfect recipe. The hop combo as stated in the title is what came out of it.

Holy crap, I hate it. I've used each of those hops in other beers in various other combinations and they were fine but that trio specifically makes a sickingly sweet, overripe peach and apricot bomb. Amarillo and Citra already bring the apricot, but something about the catty, dankness of Simcoe makes it go all wrong.

Has anyone tried this combo and found the same thing? Maybe you like it? What other combos have you tried that seemed like they should work but absolutely did not?

My return to the drawing board is going to pick up with the more pine focused hops. I think I'm going Apollo, Chinook and Cascade.

 

[lumpher]

I'd started thinking I might be the only 1. I made a Pale Ale with that combo. I almost dumped it, but managed to choke it down on the days when I'd already had a few. Ruined all those hops for me, at least for the foreseeable future.

 

[tdf]

My American IPA recipe has those 3 hops along with Centennial and Columbus.

I really don't like the character I get from either Simcoe or Citra when they are in the boil, though. I only have them in an 80c hop stand and dry hop.

 

[Miraculix]

I've had Simcoe/Chinook/Apollo, equally split for each addition and this was a marvelous beer. I guess it also works well with cascade instead of Simcoe. Your description of your failed combo sounds... Interesting.

 

[Cat Assistant Brewery]

sickingly sweet, overripe peach and apricot bomb.

How much Citra did you use? I tried making Double IPA using just Citra once got the same sickingly sweet notes. That maybe your culprit. I had to let it sit for like 3 months before it was remotely drinkable.

 

[Bobby_M]

How much Citra did you use? I tried making Double IPA using just Citra once got the same sickingly sweet notes. That maybe your culprit. I had to let it sit for like 3 months before it was remotely drinkable.

Keep in mind it's a 9 gallon batch.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I haven’t used Simcoe in a longtime. I did a smash with it and it ruined me. I’ve never brewed with again. Did the same with El Dorado and Galaxy, never again. like Chinook and Nugget for boil in mine. Like the Apollo idea, like all 3 of those.

 

[kurds_2408]

I made a pale ale with Simcoe and Amarillo a couple months ago. Used in both the boil and dry hop as well as some Centennial and Columbus. One of the best beers I’ve made.

 

[wdavis2003]

Got me thinking this topic would make an interesting thread.. more so, hops you hate. Not hop combos you hate. I really dislike Sabro

 

[Bobby_M]

Got me thinking this topic would make an interesting thread.. more so, hops you hate. Not hop combos you hate. I really dislike Sabro

I'm open to whatever people want to say. I was mostly thinking about hops that I like individually but in one wrong combination, it's over. They should hit all Sabro plants with Monsanto.

 

[tracer bullet]

Interesting. Amarillo, Cascade and Simcoe play well together, I've made it a few times (sort of cloning a local beer, Surly Furious).

I would have expected Citra replacing Cascade in that trio would be OK. For most people (personally I sort of hate Citra and stopped using it).

I really enjoy the Meanbrews channel, and have repeated a few recipes and they've been good. I love the approach but find I always want to tweak an ingredient or two if I were to ever make a recipe again. Just personal tastes even if it's outside the norm or previous competition winners.

 

[passedpawn]

I've got a mosaic Simcoe IPA on tap that has annoying grapefruit. It's getting dumped on the back 40 tomorrow to make room for new stuff.

I've really got to get back to the west coast clean IPAs I used to make. Chinook and cascade and columbus, I'm looking at you.

 

[jerrylotto]

It's not the Hop as much as how you use it. Imparts of very different flavors in the boil for various times, at flame out, and for dry hopping for various lengths of time. Most of the hops people seem to mentioning they dislike in combination work really well for dry hopping over shorter periods of time near or after the end of fermentation IMHO.

 

[wepeeler]

I've never been a fan of Amarillo. My favorite neipa hop combo right now is Citra, Simcoe, Cascade. I believe it would translate well into a non-hazy IPA as well, but I've never done it.

I routinely read that Amarillo is a crowd favorite, but I'm just not a fan.

 

[jerrylotto]

My +1 for NEIPA is Mosaic

 

[Bobby_M]

My +1 for NEIPA is Mosaic

I'm a mosaic hater myself. It tastes like blueberry mixed with used motor oil and diesel fuel.

 

[GoodTruble]

I've never used Sabro, but a guy at the LHBS told me it has a coconut flavor when I told him l was going to brew a toasted coconut brown ale. -Sabro good option or no? (I'm not brewing it until next month).

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm a mosaic hater myself. It tastes like blueberry mixed with used motor oil and diesel fuel.

Do you hate Nelson too? She might taste to you as a triple Mosaic, where the blueberries were replaced by dry white wine to compliment those exquisite diesel flavors.

 

[terrypratt1]

Do you hate Nelson too? She might taste to you as a triple Mosaic, where the blueberries were replaced by dry white wine to compliment those exquisite diesel flavors.

I like Nelson in my Whirlpool and again in first dry hop at the beginning of fermentation; then followed by a ton of Citra in the post fermentation dry hop.

 

[bhanson]

I still like Simcoe in the right place and by itself, but I think the dry hopping over the very fruity hops is a bad move. We all associate dank, catty flavors together with fruit as something spoiling.

 

[IslandLizard]

I like Nelson in my Whirlpool and again in first dry hop at the beginning of fermentation; then followed by a ton of Citra in the post fermentation dry hop.

Oh yeah, I love Nelson in the whirlpool, and also as a dry hop.
She's always been one of my favorite hops, I find her "diesel" flavor/aroma fantastic! I have others on my go to hops list, such as Mosaic, Citra, Galaxy, Vic Secret, Simcoe, Enigma, you name it. The danker, the better, I am serious. I don't recall having met a hop I don't like. Oh, except for one that tasted like garlic that one year, for whatever reason. Don't remember which that was. Simcoe maybe? And I love garlic, just not in beer (yet).

 

[Group W]

This Amarillo single hop turned out quite nice. I have to agree with some on Sabro and Simcoe. They aren’t in my rotation any more. Moving from Mosaic to Strata for dankness. I never boil Citra, actually, don’t boil any hops except a bittering charge at 60 in my WC IPAs. I just can’t get enough of those C hops. Centennial, Citra, Mosaic I like and Centennial, Chinook, Strata. For fruity I like Amarillo, Azacca, Citra and Strata in varying amounts. Doing that one next. Cheers!

 

[MrClint]

Good to know that this trifecta of hops may not be all that great and as always YMMV. In my limited small batch and non-master brewer experience, I've found that Amarillo is at its best at flame out as an aroma hop. It does very well in this regard and poorly otherwise (for me).

 

[stealthfixr]

This thread reminds me that one of the hardest things to figure out with recipe creation is hop pairings. Hand smelling and making hop teas doesn't equate to a fermented beer result very well. So hard to know what works and doesn't...until you drink it. And, one person's fav hop is another's most hated one--we are all different. I spend more time researching what hop goes with what hop than anything else and I frequently get it wrong.

And, it seems that while so many hop releases are happening on a steady basis, 90% of those new hops are meant for Juicy/Hazy IPAs only. I subscribed to the Yakima Valley Hop Box last year, and the majority of the hops that arrived here juicy/hazy IPA ones. I just don't make many juicy/hazy IPAs.

I need to hire a Hop Whisperer.

 

[L8_Additions]

I've got a west coast IPA coming up with

Hops (340 g)​

30 g (28 IBU) — Citra 12% — Boil — 30 min

10 g (8 IBU) — Centennial 10% — Boil — 30 min

60 g (8 IBU) — Centennial 10% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F

60 g (10 IBU) — Citra 12% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand

30 g (2 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F

60 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — day 5

60 g — Citra 12% — Dry Hop — day 5

30 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — day 5

 

[Malticulous]

This Amarillo, Citra, Simcoe brew is good.

https://www.epicbrewing.com/lunar-transit

 

[IslandLizard]

I've got a west coast IPA coming up with

Hops (340 g)​

That's a big bunch of hops, good combination, and all C's.
I see you're new here... How does your hop list fit in this thread? There's no mention of Simcoe or Amarillo...
Or are you purposefully omitting those?

 

[day_trippr]

I was curious about IPA hop combos so I went through my current recipes and dragged out the hops used.
Never used the dreaded Amarillo-Citra-Simcoe combo though I have that one surrounded

Cheers!

 

[tracer bullet]

It really is interesting to see what people think of these hops...

Amarillo - I like it OK, I recognize its flavor, I'll buy a 6 pack of beer with it but won't brew 5 gallons with it.
Simcoe - I like it I'd say pretty well, but feel like I've had it so much that I've started to avoid it a little. But not avoid too much, I made an IPA this year with a bunch in it.
Citra - I don't care for it and stopped using it. It's not a bad hop I just never really liked it much and have also gotten tired of tasting it in everything.

I looked back and haven't ever combo'd it. Yeah it might hit a bunch of bad notes. Always hard to predict.

I'm a cascade + Centennial fan. I don't seem to ever get tired of it.

 

[Miraculix]

It really is interesting to see what people think of these hops...

Amarillo - I like it OK, I recognize its flavor, I'll buy a 6 pack of beer with it but won't brew 5 gallons with it.
Simcoe - I like it I'd say pretty well, but feel like I've had it so much that I've started to avoid it a little. But not avoid too much, I made an IPA this year with a bunch in it.
Citra - I don't care for it and stopped using it. It's not a bad hop I just never really liked it much and have also gotten tired of tasting it in everything.

I looked back and haven't ever combo'd it. Yeah it might hit a bunch of bad notes. Always hard to predict.

I'm a cascade + Centennial fan. I don't seem to ever get tired of it.

I really really like every single hop you mentioned here .

 

[L8_Additions]

That's a big bunch of hops, good combination, and all C's.
I see you're new here... How does your hop list fit in this thread? There's no mention of Simcoe or Amarillo...
Or are you purposefully omitting those?

Just suggesting a tried and true combination for the OP! (and others)

 

[CascadesBrewer]

This thread almost makes me want to brew a Amarillo + Citra + Simcoe batch! I could see that combo being solid of the new-old-school American hops. But, I have a ton of Amarillo and Centennial that I need to put to use (probably 2.5 lbs of each, plus another 1.5 lbs of Warrior).

In my experience over the years, Amarillo can be quite variable. I picked up some 1 lb bags of Amarillo and Centennial from a local brewer that was closing, then the next month my homebrew club got some 11 lb bags of Amarillo, Centennial and Warrior from a brewery that was clearing out last year's stock.

My return to the drawing board is going to pick up with the more pine focused hops. I think I'm going Apollo, Chinook and Cascade.

Sounds like a good combo. I have really likes some batches of an IPA with Columbus on the hot side, with Centennial and Chinook in the late boil and dry hop. Some batches have been better than others, and I am not sure how much is me or the quality of the hops I used.

 

[Bobby_M]

The more I think about it, and research, I think one of the problems is that my whirlpool/hopstand was too cold. I'm not saying I wouldn't have gotten overripe peach at all, but I think the cold stand extracted more fruit and less pine/citrus.

 

[Squelch]

I believe I've brewed enough hazy NEIPA to be comfortable with my grain bills and two-hop combos, and I have a few medals to back that up. I've never really brewed a classic non-hazy IPA that knocked my socks off. I started down the road of making that a project. I figured one good place to start was Meanbrews. If you're not familiar, it's an analysis of many medal winning recipes and it's an attempt to engineer the perfect recipe. The hop combo as stated in the title is what came out of it.

Holy crap, I hate it. I've used each of those hops in other beers in various other combinations and they were fine but that trio specifically makes a sickingly sweet, overripe peach and apricot bomb. Amarillo and Citra already bring the apricot, but something about the catty, dankness of Simcoe makes it go all wrong.

Has anyone tried this combo and found the same thing? Maybe you like it? What other combos have you tried that seemed like they should work but absolutely did not?

My return to the drawing board is going to pick up with the more pine focused hops. I think I'm going Apollo, Chinook and Cascade.

keep in mind simcoe has signifigant terrior and varies year to year. Recent years of simcoe has lost its punch imho. Feel free to play with the hops, however, this recipe did do well with the judges and got a medal in Australia's version of NHC.

 

[Bobby_M]

keep in mind simcoe has signifigant terrior and varies year to year. Recent years of simcoe has lost its punch imho. Feel free to play with the hops, however, this recipe did do well with the judges and got a medal in Australia's version of NHC.

Certainly no shade being thrown on the recipe or data that drove it. I almost put it into a local competition to show how it was likely a judge favorite despite my distaste for the combo but I had 5 other better options and there was an entry cap.

 

[L8_Additions]

I've got a west coast IPA coming up with

Hops (340 g)​

30 g (28 IBU) — Citra 12% — Boil — 30 min

10 g (8 IBU) — Centennial 10% — Boil — 30 min

60 g (8 IBU) — Centennial 10% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F

60 g (10 IBU) — Citra 12% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand

30 g (2 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F

60 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — day 5

60 g — Citra 12% — Dry Hop — day 5

30 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — day 5

This one is my wife's new favorite! She's definitely my toughest critic.
A lot of that classic IPA hop character without the caramelly sweet flavors.
Recipe:
American IPA all grain, 6 gallons into fermenter
6.7% / 15 °P

Malts (16 lb)​

11 lb (68.8%) — Rahr Pale Malt, 2-Row — Grain — 1.9 °L
5 lb (31.3%) — Briess Bonlander Vienna Malt — Grain — 3.5 °L

Hops (340 g)​

30 g (28 IBU) — Citra 12% — Boil — 30 min
10 g (8 IBU) — Centennial 10% — Boil — 30 min
60 g (8 IBU) — Centennial 10% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F
60 g (10 IBU) — Citra 12% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F
30 g (2 IBU) — Cascade 5.5% — Aroma — 20 min hopstand @ 175 °F
60 g — Centennial 10% — Dry Hop — day 5
60 g — Citra 12% — Dry Hop — day 5
30 g — Cascade 5.5% — Dry Hop — day 5
8 grams gypsum
4 grams CaSO4

Yeast​

200 billion cells — Fermentis W-34/70 Saflager Lager 83%

Fermentation​

ferment — 65 °F — 7 days
clarify — 34 °F — 2 days
carbonate / condition — 45 °F — 7 days

 

[Deadalus]

I've got a NEIPA I brew with Simcoe, Centennial, Citra, and Pacifica. The Simcoe and Centennials are 10 minute additions, whirlpool all four in about even amounts at 165F for 20 minutes, then first dry hop all four equally and second dry hop slightly heavier on the Simcoe and Citra and lighter on the Pacifica. Definitely citrusy, haven't brewed it in 2 years until recently and that batch is almost done. I switched the Centennials in after first using Cascades as I wanted less grapefruit flavor.