AM I Crazy? Or should beer be simple and enjoyable?

[Big Monk]

Fair dos. What we can be certain of, however, is that Pale Malts (the non-grassy kind), black patent malt, the hydrometer, the thermometer, and the attemperator had all been invented by the end of the eighteenth century. I personally think that equates to a lot of things we use today.

I’ll grant you that, although I’d argue the actual discovery, and study, of yeast sets off the “modern” era of brewing. Also, the study and understanding of enzymatic activity in malt would have been a big one too.

Certainly the development of the tools of the trade were a big deal.

 

[Bilsch]

Consider indirect kilning didn't come until early 19th century so everything before that was more or less a rauchbier. Smoky sours yum!

 

[RustyHorn]

Consider indirect kilning didn't come until early 19th century so everything before that was more or less a rauchbier. Smoky sours yum!

Actually, that was developed in the 17th century. It wasn't popular until the early 19th century, but it had already been developed. It slowly replaced brown malt because of the invention of Black Patent Malt and the higher efficiency of Pale Ale Malt. The hydrometer played a big part in that discovery.

 

[Bilsch]

I think you might be conflating the invention of pale malt, which was still directly heated with the combustion gasses but using coke instead of wood or peat, with true indirect heating where none of the smoke from burning comes into contact with the malt and this no flavors of the fuel. Coke is cleaner then wood but certainly not flavorless.

 

[mongoose33]

Again, someone said that beer 50 years ago would have been rubbish as they didn't know what they were doing, so I pointed out the start of modern beer 300 years ago to show that 50 years ago, beer would have been great.

I think your theory has flaws because good beer can be tasted. You wouldn't brew a crap beer, not like the taste, then say that it does taste nice because they made beer 300 years ago which probably tasted nice. On the contrary, you're probably more likely brewing crap beer if you think that they couldn't brew good beer back then as that would make you look more pathetic, considering all the advances in knowledge and technology in that time!

The point I was trying to make, gently, is one of cognitive dissonance. Look up "ugly baby" syndrome, and apply it to beer. "This beer is great, because it's mine!"

Here's how this works:

1. 300 years ago they brewed beer. But they didn't know much about the process, didn't understand yeast, had no way to control fermentation temps, sanitation was very iffy, may or may not have had decent hops....

2. But they made great beer!

3. So, since they made great beer, that stuff they didn't know about or do doesn't matter much.

4. I don't have a very refined process; neither did my ancestors, and they brewed great beer.

5. My beer, ergo, is also great, since I brew like them!

 

[z-bob]

Let's say hypothetically that beer should be simple and enjoyable. That doesn't mean your not crazy
HTH

 

[mongoose33]

Let's say hypothetically that beer should be simple and enjoyable. That doesn't mean your not crazy
HTH

No, he's crazy--look at the thread he spawned!

 

[flseadog]

I homebrew because I love beer. I believe beer should be simple, and enjoyable. Did our ancestors who drank beer worry about "mouthfeel" or "notes of citrus and flowers"? NO! They wanted beer that tasted good and made them feel good. I'm not a Cicerone, or an aspiring microbrewery owner. I make beer that I like and want to drink. I'm not an engineer, or a chemist. Is there anyone else out there who wants to keep this hobby simple and enjoyable?

I actually try to make my equipment and process as simple as possible. I use a stainless pot on my electric range. I cool by adding ice directly to the wort. I wrap my glass carboy in a towel to block out light, and ferment entirely in the carboy till I bottle or keg. I get very good results and brew a variety of beers that I enjoy. I have gotten great reviews from friends an d family that I share my homebrew with. I love drinking a good brew that I made myself.

 

[Blazinlow86]

The point I was trying to make, gently, is one of cognitive dissonance. Look up "ugly baby" syndrome, and apply it to beer. "This beer is great, because it's mine!"

Here's how this works:

1. 300 years ago they brewed beer. But they didn't know much about the process, didn't understand yeast, had no way to control fermentation temps, sanitation was very iffy, may or may not have had decent hops....

2. But they made great beer!

3. So, since they made great beer, that stuff they didn't know about or do doesn't matter much.

4. I don't have a very refined process; neither did my ancestors, and they brewed great beer.

5. My beer, ergo, is also great, since I brew like them!

I agree. making "beer" is easy. Cavemen did it and the yeast does all the work. Making 5/10 beer is fairly easy, but the closer you get to a 10/10 beer the harder it gets. Cheers

 

[Still Brewn]

Well, heck, "our ancestors" from just 50 years ago likely didn't care about any of that either.
Beer was functional and likely wholly unexciting. Not something I care to emulate...

Cheers!

Strange matchup...you'd think you had rigged the obvious winner, but I bet you wouldn't even recognize "300 BC Beer" as "beer"...

Cheers!

"Beer also figures prominently in Egyptian literature and sayings. For example in this inscription dated to around 2200 BC... "The mouth of a perfectly contented man is filled with beer." The following is from the Instructions of Ani: [your mother] sent you to school when you were ready to be taught writing, and she waited for you daily at home with bread and beer. "
Quoted from:
www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/beer.html
Egyptians were brewing beer 8400 years ago
8000 years ago is first known written recipe for beer, Babylonia
6000 years ago barley beer is brewed in Sumeria
About 1800 B.C. a tablet contains a Hymn to Ninkasi, the Sumerian goddess of beer; "Ninkasi, you are the one who pours out the filtered beer of the collector vat. It is like the onrush of the Tigris and Euphrates."
Egyptians had 2 goddesses for beer


I'm sure that the beer made by the Egyptians 4000 years ago was tasty... You don't serve crap to a living "god" without consequences. Barley and uncooked malt was used in some beers at the time so as far as recognising it as beer you have today probably not it was most likely closer to barley wine or a wheat wine with all the cloudiness of a wheat beer. Additionally You don't have beers still being served 500 years later if they are not something to behold. Unfortunately th US went through a time where those that think they are better than everyone and they should run others lives won out and we went through prohibition. This essentially killed many of the oldest beers that were once common in the us but there are still examples of 200+ year old beers around if you look.

 

[rmyurick]

I agree that it should be enjoyable! Yes, it should taste good, but if you are going to make beer, the obvious questions are "why does it taste good?" and "what would make it better?" at that point, you are into analysis!

 

[LarryAppleton]

The best simplest Truebeer recipe: old cupcakes, dry wall, and a cat, all mashed with sewage water, and aged in a barrel of old deck lumber..... (did I leave something out?)

From what I can recall, my grandfather would make beer out of anything. And IN anything. And he enjoyed it right up till the day he died. He was even drinking some when he died. My point is: Maybe Mell and Fred and the others are just showing us that we're trying too hard. RDWHAHB has been the motto. Yet we worry, are not relaxed, and dump every homebrew that has a hint of grass in it. My grandfather made beer from grass and never once did he mention a grassy note.

 

[rmyurick]

From what I can recall, my grandfather would make beer out of anything. And IN anything. And he enjoyed it right up till the day he died. He was even drinking some when he died. My point is: Maybe Mell and Fred and the others are just showing us that we're trying too hard. RDWHAHB has been the motto. Yet we worry, are not relaxed, and dump every homebrew that has a hint of grass in it. My grandfather made beer from grass and never once did he mention a grassy note.

My hat is off to anyone who can make (drinkable) beer from grass! My mom's Uncle used to make wine, but it tasted like Thunderbird. He probably enjoyed it; not sure anyone else did.

 

[bleme]

My hat is off to anyone who can make (drinkable) beer from grass! My mom's Uncle used to make wine, but it tasted like Thunderbird. He probably enjoyed it; not sure anyone else did.

http://www.ediblewildfood.com/stinging-nettle-beer.aspx

Also...

AM I Crazy? Or should beer be simple and enjoyable?

These are two separate questions. The 2nd has been beat to death. Maybe we should explore the first one?

 

[Soulshine2]

I think oxygenating wort is too much of a hassle and the lodo bros are telling me I need to de-oxygenate my strike water and mash in a condom? Hah!

hey you can cut down on infections that way...

 

[lump42]

From what I can recall, my grandfather would make beer out of anything. And IN anything. And he enjoyed it right up till the day he died. He was even drinking some when he died. My point is: Maybe Mell and Fred and the others are just showing us that we're trying too hard. RDWHAHB has been the motto. Yet we worry, are not relaxed, and dump every homebrew that has a hint of grass in it. My grandfather made beer from grass and never once did he mention a grassy note.

Props to the generations past that made delicious brews without the science. I'm going to venture to guess that he didn't consider sewage water a quality ingredient or call out others for 'still using hops' in their brews.

 

[Jayjay1976]

This reminds me of the statement: fast cheap or good, pick two.

With the advent of kveik yeast, it would seem that fast, cheap, and good is finally on the menu...

 

[bracconiere]

With the advent of kveik yeast, it would seem that fast, cheap, and good is finally on the menu...

i was thinking about saying something about, how i've been infinitely repitching yeast. And warm fermenting for over a decade now, and until someone came around and called it 'kveik'....i always got crap for it!

 

[LittleRiver]

...
Egyptians were brewing beer 8400 years ago
8000 years ago is first known written recipe for beer, Babylonia
6000 years ago barley beer is brewed in Sumeria...

There is evidence that beer was being produced at Göbekli Tepe about 11,000 years ago, as described in this article.

 

[Bilsch]

With the advent of kveik yeast, it would seem that fast, cheap, and good is finally on the menu...

In that case I better make a quick beer drinking trip to Germany before the Bavarians switch yeast.

 

[Jayjay1976]

In that case I better make a quick beer drinking trip to Germany before the Bavarians switch yeast.

The Bavarians nailed good, fast, and cheap beer decades ago. Thats why they have an anemic craft beer scene. When I lived there, ~15€ for a case of 20 half-liter bottles was the going rate for world-class German beers like huber, weihenstephan, hacker-pschorr, HB, etc..

 

[Bilsch]

The Bavarians nailed good, fast, and cheap beer decades ago. Thats why they have an anemic craft beer scene. When I lived there, ~15€ for a case of 20 half-liter bottles was the going rate for world-class German beers like huber, weihenstephan, hacker-pschorr, HB, etc..

Totally agree with everything you said except maybe the fast part. But definitely cheap comparatively as you can pick up a 20x.5l case of Weihenstephaner for €16,80 at the brewery store.
Oh how I wish my town had an anemic craft beer scene!

 

[Lefou]

This "anemic craft beer scene", which in my opinion, is a lack of German-style brewing, is one of the big reasons I went to brewing my own beer. I won't drink IPA/IIPA beers or sours that tend to have an imbalance of hops to malt or an exorbitant price to go with the marketing hype.
It isn't overly difficult to produce a simple balanced beer at home that avoids aging or negative oxidation effects if it's produced well, consumed quickly, and refrigerated properly.

 

[Still Brewn]

There is evidence that beer was being produced at Göbekli Tepe about 11,000 years ago, as described in this article.

Interesting article, brings us right back to the age old question of beer first or bread first. My opinion is beer for the simple fact that it takes more technology to make bread. Probably cooked grains first then beer then bread. The invention of beer is far less complicated than archeologist are making it out to be. It is as simple as leaving the lid off the the grain bin in the rain. The storage of grains is not perfect and anyone that has ever worked in a silo, feed lot or anywhere else that deals with grains and seeds know how easy it is to sprout them and how much ends up on the ground or otherwise wasted. It doesn't take much to see the simple steps from seed to a brew of sorts just by cleaning up spilled, wet or sprouted grains around a grain storage bin.

 

[rmyurick]

http://www.ediblewildfood.com/stinging-nettle-beer.aspx

Also...

These are two separate questions. The 2nd has been beat to death. Maybe we should explore the first one?

Haha, I think it was meant to be "rhetorical" [emoji16]

 

[LarryAppleton]

Props to the generations past that made delicious brews without the science. I'm going to venture to guess that he didn't consider sewage water a quality ingredient or call out others for 'still using hops' in their brews.

I read the sewage thread (been just lurking for a while) and if ismellweird contaminated his pot with sewage, he apparently managed to still make good beer after sanitizing the pot. Despite a dozen responses saying he should toss the pot and buy a new one. Again, maybe it's just easier to make beer than we're making it out to be. Or, maybe we all have violently different ideas of what quality is. Like... do we all see the same color when we look at a blue crayon. How would we ever know. My friends drink my beer and they all say it's good. I know most of it isn't because I'm a beginner and I just know it's not great. Sometimes I want to shake them into their senses. It's hard to know when friends are lying to you.

 

[day_trippr]

I think it's hilarious that anyone gleaned anything useful from ismellweird.
The guy was a flat out troll machine

Cheers!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I brew BIAB with a giant pot on a chair in my kitchen....simple as you can get. I enjoy the process but enjoy the simplicity just as much.

 

[LarryAppleton]

I think it's hilarious that anyone gleaned anything useful from ismellweird.
The guy was a flat out troll machine

Cheers!

Maybe not from him directly but some of those threads do teach some lessons if you can see through the choas!

 

[tat2Pompadore]

Reading through everyone’s thoughts on this, I agree with both sides of the coin.

I am an engineer and I am always trying to streamline my process. I prefer traditional style beers. I try to make really good beers to the style. I don’t foresee myself making a milkshake IPA. But I’ll work hard to make a good 80 schilling.

All in all, I hope to have fun with it. Just like everyone else.

 

[lump42]

My friends drink my beer and they all say it's good. I know most of it isn't because I'm a beginner and I just know it's not great. Sometimes I want to shake them into their senses. It's hard to know when friends are lying to you.

You're right it doesn't have to be difficult which is why it's been made for 10,000 years. Also, don't be hard on yourself, just because your new at this doesn't mean your beer isn't good.

 

[Kee]

My friends drink my beer and they all say it's good. I know most of it isn't because I'm a beginner and I just know it's not great. Sometimes I want to shake them into their senses.

I like friends that are easy to impress. That way I know what to do with the batches that don't turn out the way I intended.

 

[Still Brewn]

I have to agree, making good beer is not difficult even for a beginner. My first brew was a Belgian Tripel, I had no idea what I was doing and had never thought about home brewing before. The entire setup was a Christmas gift from the wife. At first the beer was in my opinion a horrible, horrible thing but as it aged in the refrigerator it got better.

I use to decorate my house with tons of computer controlled lights and we would have a party thanksgiving night and invite all the neighborhood to sit in the front yard in front of the fireplace and drink beer. Thanksgiving of 07 Everybody finished the beer we had bought and so I broke out the keg that had been sitting in the fridge for 11 months. I hadn't tasted it since spring and was embarrassed by it so I didn't tell anyone that I had made it and didn't even try it. Then to my surprise everyone started raving about it and asking where I got it. At first I just avoided the question then curiosity got the best of me so i had to try it. That beer ended up as one of the best beers I have ever had, I still have people asking for it to this day. That and the Christmas lights. That beer, after a lot of patience, is what got me hooked on this hobby. Or as the wife says "created a monster". My suggestion to any newbie out there, start simple and have patience. Do a number of recipes that are tried and true and finish in a short amount of time. I got lucky, if I had dumped my first beer after tasting it like I had planned I wouldn't still be in this hobby 12 years later. I owe it all to my wife and working 60 miles from home. I have never made another Belgian Tripel or any recipe a second time but I think it's time.

 

[LarryAppleton]

I got lucky, if I had dumped my first beer after tasting it like I had planned I wouldn't still be in this hobby 12 years later.

I had that same experience recently. It's the reason I'm here right now. In 2014 on Super Bowl Sunday I got extremely in over my head trying to make a Westvleteren 12 clone with a friend's all-grain brewing setup. I had only brewed once or twice before. After trying the first bottle, I found it very spicy and complex and dark and boozy and just ugly. I got angry and put all the boxes away for literally 4-5 years in the darkest corner of my basement and never brewed again. Found the box and tried one recently and honestly it was a different beer. I very much enjoyed it and a few friends did too. Gave me the courage to try this all again. I figure... No matter what happens, you still end up with beer. The rest is just subjective fine-tuning. In my grandfather's day people would drink this beer and think I was a wizard. But there I was ready to dump it all because it wasn't as good as something a 100-person million dollar brewery put out. If I'm being reasonable with myself, it's all pretty easy and drinkable no matter what.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I had that same experience recently. It's the reason I'm here right now. In 2014 on Super Bowl Sunday I got extremely in over my head trying to make a Westvleteren 12 clone with a friend's all-grain brewing setup. I had only brewed once or twice before. After trying the first bottle, I found it very spicy and complex and dark and boozy and just ugly. I got angry and put all the boxes away for literally 4-5 years in the darkest corner of my basement and never brewed again. Found the box and tried one recently and honestly it was a different beer. I very much enjoyed it and a few friends did too. Gave me the courage to try this all again. I figure... No matter what happens, you still end up with beer. The rest is just subjective fine-tuning. In my grandfather's day people would drink this beer and think I was a wizard. But there I was ready to dump it all because it wasn't as good as something a 100-person million dollar brewery put out. If I'm being reasonable with myself, it's all pretty easy and drinkable no matter what.

If your happy with the beer your making your doing it correctly. Making beer like that million dollar brewery's making is very hard to do at home and requires alot more money and time than most are willing to put in. Cheers

 

[Druman07]

I homebrew because I love beer. I believe beer should be simple, and enjoyable. Did our ancestors who drank beer worry about "mouthfeel" or "notes of citrus and flowers"? NO! They wanted beer that tasted good and made them feel good. I'm not a Cicerone, or an aspiring microbrewery owner. I make beer that I like and want to drink. I'm not an engineer, or a chemist. Is there anyone else out there who wants to keep this hobby simple and enjoyable?

The beauty is you can make it as complicated or simple as you want. Your call. Currently I am in the middle.

 

[seatazzz]

It all comes down to, how simple do YOU want it to be? Buy an extract kit, follow the instructions, bang you're done in under 2 hours. Or, build your own 3 tier system with HERMS or RIMS or whatever, and have 7-8 hour brewdays. Or, go full electric with Robobrew or Grainfather, push a few buttons, and you're done in whatever time it takes because I don't know and haven't brewed with one. Any way you go, you can brew some fantastic beers. I love my system and don't want anything more. Brewing beer, to me, is more fun than drinking it. Even if I'm having a horrible brewday and swearing at myself, my equipment, pets, husband (all of which have happened during one particular brewday).

 

[hbhudy]

I brew what I like to drink, which are mainly Belgian beers and low ABV brews that do not fit into any real style

 

[LarryAppleton]

Making beer like that million dollar brewery's making is very hard to do at home and requires alot more money and time than most are willing to put in.

But then again there are million dollar breweries owned by 2 guys that started in a shed. Didn't Mell start a brewery? Even with all of his sewage issues and whatnot? Maybe it takes less time and money than we realize.

 

[Blazinlow86]

But then again there are million dollar breweries owned by 2 guys that started in a shed. Didn't Mell start a brewery? Even with all of his sewage issues and whatnot? Maybe it takes less time and money than we realize.

Not sure what you mean? My comment would be referring to the beer there brewing today in the million dollar brewery being hard to replicate at home. Alot of the best brewers started at home. Cheers