Aging beer: Facts, myths, and discussion

[motobrewer]

i'm still struggling with this. it took my porter 2 months of keg aging to become tasty. it was drinkable after 3 weeks in the keg, but wasn't close to great until after 2 months.

i make starters, but have no stir plate. is it really just about more yeast?

 

[Malticulous]

But, Yuri, I bottle condition my beer! Well, my friend, you have to wait an extra 2-3 weeks. There's no getting around that. Yeast work slowly when under pressure in an alcoholic environment. Patience is still a virtue..

I just started kegging. I still bottle half of all my batches. The bottles are better long before the kegs.

I'm an excellent bottler. I can carb mid gravity beers in three days. To do that in a keg may require shaking back up the sediment. C02 from bottle conditioning comes from within the beer. In a keg it comes forced in from the top. C02 will stay in suspension in a bottle under pressure. It will take time or agitation to go into suspension in a keg. Lower temperatures help in the kegs but is not as effective as bottle conditioning can be (agitation is the only way to beat it.).

A bottle is much smaller. Sediment will settle on the bottom faster. Cooler kegging temps assistant sedimentation but a keg is so much bigger that when compared with my fast bottle carb times the storage temp is irrelevant.

My kegs have took three times as long as my bottles to get as good. I need to become an expert kegger.

My Hefe was (almost) an exception and the above explains why.

 

[wheelerc6]

Will beer only age when carbonated?

I ask this because I made a 10 gallon batch a couple of weeks ago of an amber. After fermentation I kegged 5 gallons and forced carbed. The other 5 gallons I dry hopped. After a week in the keg the first 5 gallons tasted green but after another week the caramel notes really started to come through on the pallet and nose. I figured the dry hopped beer would show these caramel notes as soon as it was carbed but I had to let it sit at least 2 weeks after carbonation to get the caramel notes on it.

 

[aphex732]

I'm drinking a 30 day old brew now, and I don't think it's going to get better. It started at 1.068 and tastes very much like Maudite.

I LOVE Maudite (La Fin Du Monde is another great one) - got a recipe?

 

[Malticulous]

It and a few better ones are in another thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/new-obsession-la-maudite-unibroue-7831/?highlight=Maudite

 

[Desert_Sky]

Fact

most brewery owners start bitching if the beer isnt packaged at 15 days

Fact

10 day beer isn't uncommon

 

[Stuntman]

FACT: I've only met a few beers I didn't like.

Read entire thread, Great job Yuri. I am not going to rib you about the Budweiser comment around post 145, as I have tried a Pabst Blue Ribbon last night and really enjoyed the dang thing. My new son in law has turned me on to so many great beers, he always has Pabst in the fridge (reminds him of his college days). I rib him all of the time, because he is not afraid of spending 5 bucks on a good beer (Hobgoblin or the like). I am going to try another one tonight to test my taste buds when I get home after work.

Thread is great, I was looking for a cheap way to control fermentation temps, to test if it is worth the effort. I see that everyone here agrees it IS important. I have never done it in my 6 years of HBing (still learning). Thank you for that one. I will always use a secondary, just the way I am set up. I am like the post around 90 or so, I use the "Keep Everything Full Method." People always have me bring the beer, everyone else has the briskets and side dishes....I am asked to please bring Home Brew...Now I have learned that when someone wants my brew for a party I can turn one in a few weeks, Thanks for that one! Lastly Thanks for bringing to my attention, my stupidity...Have a stir plate, didn't plan my brew session, sprinkled 4 month old Notingham, 20 hours later sprinkled Nother Notinham.... Should have used the dang Stir Plate!

 

[dragonlor20]

FACT: I've only met a few beers I didn't like.

Read entire thread, Great job Yuri. I am not going to rib you about the Budweiser comment around post 145, as I have tried a Pabst Blue Ribbon last night and really enjoyed the dang thing. My new son in law has turned me on to so many great beers, he always has Pabst in the fridge (reminds him of his college days). I rib him all of the time, because he is not afraid of spending 5 bucks on a good beer (Hobgoblin or the like). I am going to try another one tonight to test my taste buds when I get home after work.

Thread is great, I was looking for a cheap way to control fermentation temps, to test if it is worth the effort. I see that everyone here agrees it IS important. I have never done it in my 6 years of HBing (still learning). Thank you for that one. I will always use a secondary, just the way I am set up. I am like the post around 90 or so, I use the "Keep Everything Full Method." People always have me bring the beer, everyone else has the briskets and side dishes....I am asked to please bring Home Brew...Now I have learned that when someone wants my brew for a party I can turn one in a few weeks, Thanks for that one! Lastly Thanks for bringing to my attention, my stupidity...Have a stir plate, didn't plan my brew session, sprinkled 4 month old Notingham, 20 hours later sprinkled Nother Notinham.... Should have used the dang Stir Plate!

Check that Nottingham against some of the "New Nottingham" threads around here. We have been struggling with a 72 hour start time on Nottingham lately. It is something to do with them changing the date printing method on their packaging, causing air to penetrate the package and kill off a significant portion of the yeast. Check it out, and make sure you have enough head room at 72 hours...

 

[DocBrown]

I thought I'd toss in there that one of the guys in our homebrew club brought a brown ale to our Tuesday night meeting a couple months ago that he had brewed the previous Sunday. Not Sunday a week and half before, Sunday 2 days prior! It was a simple brown ale recipe pitched directly on the yeast cake of another brown ale, so fermentation took off immediately. He pulled a sample from his fermenter and force-carbed it Tuesday evening before the meeting. If he hadn't told us its age we never would have guessed! It was certainly young and probably was much better about two weeks later, but it was a perfectly good homebrewed beer that was only two days old.

 

[bkov]

"Budweiser goes from grain to bottle in 28 days"

i was watching a special on budwieser today on tv and they said that it sits in the fermentor tanks with the beechwood for 30days.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I think the main reason to get into home brewing is to eliminate the addition of chemicals and preservatives in the beer making process and to craft a really natural beer. I have to ask where and how does the chemical and preservatives measure into this thread? I don't disagree with what's been said, but commercial beers are notorious for using chemicals to brew their beers and increase profit margins.

Screwy Brewer

 

[freudhawk]

Read it all!!!

Great topic and I agree. Since I have been pitching high amounts of yeast, watching ferm temps, etc, my beers have been very clean tasting. Now that I am figuring out water chemistry they are getting even better!

 

[fredthecat]

i definitely try to above all keep it simple, i see alot of recipes online with crazy long lists of different kinds of malts in tiny amounts

personally though even if its possible to brew a beer in a short amount of time, i have no problem with waiting, i always try to let mine sit as long as possible

 

[Hannable1975]

( small bump )

I have learned so much from this thread - read the whole thing TWICE !

Really - it's threads like this that make HBT so valuable to me - thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge folks.

And for what I hae learned - pitch rate pitch rate pitch rate !

 

[Mermaid]

I am in complete agreement with you, as I have been enjoying my clone of Rogue's "Dead Guy" that I brewed at the beginning of September. This is the batch I put in a Tap-a-Draft bottle and force carbed.

However... this is where you lost me:

Cold crash. When the yeast have completed their tasks (including "cleaning up" the twangy taste of "green beer"), bulk chill the beer to below 40°F. Assuming you've done everything correctly to this point, the beer should drop clear very quickly.

Force carbonate. Chill the beer to less than 40°F (it's already there if you cold crashed), set the CO2 at 30 psi, and start shaking the keg. Every 2-3 minutes, carefully bleed the pressure and pour a sample. It should only take two or three iterations before you have perfectly carbonated beer.

Bulk chil requires a separate fridge or stable, cold outdoor temps (or maybe a cave). Apartment dwellers such as myself with no garage, no shed, and no spare fridge have to make do with what we've got.

Force carb requires either a small scale setup such as a tap-a-draft or party pig, or a keg/mini-fridge setup.

A keg system is more or less out of reach, again, for us lowly apartment dwellers without a lot of space (let alone electrical outlets) to go that route.

Again, I do agree with you on most of your points. The Dead Guy clone (a partial mash) was a joy to brew, had a blast working with captured Pacman yeast, it took almost 2 weeks to finish fermenting, another 2 weeks in the secondary (waiting for the T-A-D to arrive), force carbed and was drinking it last weekend.

My dubbel is a problem child, but will certainly grow up to be a good beer someday once it's sat for a while.

Good post tho, I really do wish I had the space for a real keg setup and a separate beer fridge.

 

[otownpyle]

Epic Post! Thanks brother!

 

[bernerbrau]

I concur. I just bought 2 freezers with temp controllers (for fermenting and kegging) and my first brew with that system went grain-to-glass in 16 days. Fermenting near 60 really helped minimize off flavors.

Did not use a starter or aerate, though. I will re-brew the same recipe using a starter when this one kicks, and see how it compares.

 

[edie]

we are using kits, brewers best only so far. using the dry yeast packets that are included in the kit. the directions, as i'm sure you know, 1wk primary 1wk secondary, bottle, 2 weeks you're done. we have been leaving in the primary for 2wks and secondary for 1wk and then with our last batch we kegged, set the pressure at 12psi, into the keezer @ 37* and have been tasting everynight. day 3 not much carbination as of yet, that's fine though, expecting it to be good by the 6-7th day, cross you fingers.

my question(s) - 1) do you recommend sticking with the yeast pckts included in the kits? if you do recommend using a different yeast what would that be?
2) the guys at our LHBS have pretty much said a kit is hard to screw up IF you follow the directions and taking a hydro reading isn't really necessary. agree? 3) further down the line we were thinking about possbily making additions to a "basic" sort of beer kit and adding a different flavor. neither of us are crazy about fruit beers, although we did taste a cherry ale in telluride this year and both loved it. what we did find that we had several pints of was a rye. would love to try and go that route. any ideas?

my reason for posting here is that being new to the art of brewing i'm never really sure if the things i'm reading are going to pertain to "kit" brewing.

have been trying to and have been gathering good information by reading the stickys. thanks for all the information.

 

[neuron555]

Kits are fine to get you started. Just make sure the ingredients, especially the yeast isn't too old. If you are getting from a place that has good stock turnover you're probably OK. Once you get the feel for it, it's pretty easy to put together your own "kit". Lots of good recipes here and other places on line. You should also pick up a couple good books like Palmer's How to Brew and Zainasheff & Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. They'll give you pointers and have recipes that Can be done with extract or all grain.

 

[neovox]

our last batch we kegged, set the pressure at 12psi, into the keezer @ 37* and have been tasting everynight. day 3 not much carbination as of yet, that's fine though, expecting it to be good by the 6-7th day, cross you fingers.

You're going to need at least a week at 12psi, which is fine. However, if you prefer to hurry it along a bit, you can set it to 30psi for 2-3 days, then purge it back down to about 10 to dispense. For more info search for Force Carbing the board. But there's nothing wrong with the way you're doing it. It just takes a little more time.

1) do you recommend sticking with the yeast pckts included in the kits? if you do recommend using a different yeast what would that be?

For starters the yeast packets in the kits will work just fine, just check the date stamp to make sure the yeast is fresh. Many folks here use liquid yeast, either Wyeast or White Labs. There's a very large variety of strains to choose from. What you choose will depend on what type of beer you're brewing. Dry or liquid, either is fine. You may develop a preference as you gain more experience. If you want to try it you can always buy a liquid yeast for your next kit and save the dry pack for later.

2) the guys at our LHBS have pretty much said a kit is hard to screw up IF you follow the directions and taking a hydro reading isn't really necessary. agree?

Yes and no. True, the kits are pretty difficult to screw up and you can get away without taking a hydro reading, but it's good practice to take those readings, and will be critical as you advance to more difficult brews.

3) further down the line we were thinking about possbily making additions to a "basic" sort of beer kit and adding a different flavor. neither of us are crazy about fruit beers, although we did taste a cherry ale in telluride this year and both loved it. what we did find that we had several pints of was a rye. would love to try and go that route. any ideas?

There are tons of recipes both on this board and on the internet. There are also several very good recipe books available -- Clone Brews, Brewing Classic Styles, or Brew Your Own Magazine. There are recipes for all styles, including those that use fruit or other flavors like vanilla or ginger. I suggest digging through some recipes, then just start brewing. Good luck!

 

[edie]

thanks for the feedback.

when i look @ recipes i want to look for "extract based w/speciality grains." i don't feel that we're ready for all grain, which i believe gets into the whole mashing thing.

CORRECT?

 

[neovox]

Yup. You should be ok with any extract recipe. The process is the same as a kit.

 

[mjc8870]

I am looking to brew december 3 Mini Mash Holiday Chocolate Stout from AHS. Do you think it will be ready for christmas, if we do 10 day fermentation at 66 degree's and 5 day cold crash at 40 degrees in kegerator, and then couple days to carb.

I have been reading thread and thinking I will be ok. I got late start and want to enjoy for Christmas.

 

[EricT]

I am looking to brew december 3 Mini Mash Holiday Chocolate Stout from AHS. Do you think it will be ready for christmas, if we do 10 day fermentation at 66 degree's and 5 day cold crash at 40 degrees in kegerator, and then couple days to carb.

I have been reading thread and thinking I will be ok. I got late start and want to enjoy for Christmas.

I did an all grain Jamil's Sweet stout on Halloween. It has been bottle conditioning for just over 2 weeks and taste wonderful, so I would say its possible since you are kegging it. Although I would skip the 5 day cold crash and give it 4 of those days in primary.

 

[Bswinter2]

I have to agree with the OP. With exception of my Imperial beers and IPA's, I am generally drinking them 14 to 16 days after the brew.

 

[wildbeers]

great discussion

Hypothetically lets say i have an ale in the primary which i usually age for 14 days and then transfer to the secondary for another 7 days. If my fermentation ends after a week and I've hit my FG is there any advantage to letting it age on the yeast cake and trub in the primary for an extra week as i usually would, or should I just rack to secondary early clearing away a lot of the crud age in secondary for the remaining 14? Is the only purpose of primary fermentation aging to get the gravity down to my desired number?

 

[EricT]

great discussion

Lets say i have an ale in the primary which i usually age for 14 days. If my fermentation stops after a week and I've hit my FG is there any advantage to letting it age on the yeast cake and trub in the primary for an extra week or should I rack it to secondary and let it age there instead?

This one has been discussed alot. Really its up to you. Many brewers including myself don't secondary. Since I'm fairly lazy by nature, I prefer to just let it sit until I'm ready to bottle/keg instead of going through the hassle of cleaning another fermentation vessel just to rack it off a few weeks later.

 

[wildbeers]

This one has been discussed alot. Really its up to you. Many brewers including myself don't secondary. Since I'm fairly lazy by nature, I prefer to just let it sit until I'm ready to bottle/keg instead of going through the hassle of cleaning another fermentation vessel just to rack it off a few weeks later.

Ya I hear what you're saying but for instance right now I have a DIPA in the primary. I planned on 14 days in primary racked to 14 days in secondary Dry hopped, racked to 3 days for another dry hop session hoping all this work pays off with one hoppy smelling mother effer. After 8 days the FG was hit though, should i just move onto my next step or is there something to getting more yeast flavor balanced in the final beer by leaving it in the primary for my full 14?

 

[dzlater]

Ya I hear what you're saying but for instance right now I have a DIPA in the primary. I planned on 14 days in primary racked to 14 days in secondary Dry hopped, racked to 3 days for another dry hop session hoping all this work pays off with one hoppy smelling mother effer. After 8 days the FG was hit though, should i just move onto my next step or is there something to getting more yeast flavor balanced in the final beer by leaving it in the primary for my full 14?

Taste the beer.
If you taste off flavors diacetyl etc. then leave on the yeast afew more days and maybe warm it up a bit, if not move it on down the line.

 

[fredthecat]

This one has been discussed alot. Really its up to you. Many brewers including myself don't secondary. Since I'm fairly lazy by nature, I prefer to just let it sit until I'm ready to bottle/keg instead of going through the hassle of cleaning another fermentation vessel just to rack it off a few weeks later.

i know a lot of the more experienced brewers here dont like to secondary. i do it because i want to get a clearish beer (style dependent). im guessing you want the same though, dont you have a hard time keeping out sediment when bottling? or is there a trick?

 

[Mermaid]

i know a lot of the more experienced brewers here dont like to secondary. i do it because i want to get a clearish beer (style dependent). im guessing you want the same though, dont you have a hard time keeping out sediment when bottling? or is there a trick?

You could try cold crashing, then use gelatin right in the primary, back to the cold, then bottle.

With the tripel I brewed on New Years Eve, I was going to use gelatin but I've just been lazy. It's still in the primary, sitting in the beer closet (which is at about 50-55F). I always use a separate bucket for bottling.

So, cold crash, then rack to the bottling bucket, then bottle. Or, use gelatin in the primary, after cold crashing, let it sit for a bit longer in the cold, then rack to bottling bucket (then bottle).

 

[EricT]

i know a lot of the more experienced brewers here dont like to secondary. i do it because i want to get a clearish beer (style dependent). im guessing you want the same though, dont you have a hard time keeping out sediment when bottling? or is there a trick?

I do get a a very small amount when I rack it to a bottling bucket but if you nadd your priming sugar and let it set for a good 30 minutes most of that will be at the bottom. However I usually keg so it baically gets a cold crash and I just dont drink that first pull from the keg

 

[Tuggy]

I've had a lot of good luck with the Nottingham yeast with fast turn around times. It's done fermenting in 4 days or less. You can let it sit longer or move to secondary if you'd like. My typical schedule with Notty is brew on friday, transfer to secondary on weds. and cold crash for 3 days. Move back to room temp on sat. and bottle monday night. I usually let it sit in the bottle for 2 weeks before cold conditioning, but I've noticed that I have a nice carbonated beer in a week. I've had similar experiences with Safeale 05, but it's not as consistantly quick to work, but still fast.

With out a doubt the last beer I cracked open from the batch was the best, but the first one was still tasty too.. Luckily I have a nice pipeline going now and I have much more patience to let my beer sit longer.

 

[AmicusCervesa]

What is this crap?
“Hallelujah, brother! More beer now!”
Please. Why are any of us in a rush to get a beer on the table? If I want a beer right now that tastes like or better than the average beer, I can go buy one.
And keep my recipe simple? No spices or additives? Great, so now I’ve made a beer that tastes like a marginally better copy of Anchor Steam. Two weeks is too long to wait for something like that.
Pardon me for thinking outside the box but I like my HB to taste like pretty much no other beer around. So what if my stout took 3 months to perfect, instead of 3 weeks? It tasted like chocolate and chicory and love!
Put it this way. I'm married. If I want to dream about getting “down and dirty” with a lady, I ain't gonna waste my time thinking about my wife who is in the other room, doing the same (or marginally better copy) of what we always do. I want to get down with some crazy chick with no restraint and no compunction to do the things wifey won’t.
Odd as it is, that’s why I brew. And that’s why I don’t mind waiting.
So rush through your pedestrian brews. They may be the best mainstream IPAs and porters out there. But don’t tell me this microwave philosophy is the new gospel.

 

[togabear]

What is this crap?
“Hallelujah, brother! More beer now!”
Please. Why are any of us in a rush to get a beer on the table? If I want a beer right now that tastes like or better than the average beer, I can go buy one.
And keep my recipe simple? No spices or additives? Great, so now I’ve made a beer that tastes like a marginally better copy of Anchor Steam. Two weeks is too long to wait for something like that.
Pardon me for thinking outside the box but I like my HB to taste like pretty much no other beer around. So what if my stout took 3 months to perfect, instead of 3 weeks? It tasted like chocolate and chicory and love!
Put it this way. I'm married. If I want to dream about getting “down and dirty” with a lady, I ain't gonna waste my time thinking about my wife who is in the other room, doing the same (or marginally better copy) of what we always do. I want to get down with some crazy chick with no restraint and no compunction to do the things wifey won’t.
Odd as it is, that’s why I brew. And that’s why I don’t mind waiting.
So rush through your pedestrian brews. They may be the best mainstream IPAs and porters out there. But don’t tell me this microwave philosophy is the new gospel.

Ha! I get what you are saying, and its really funny and true. I take that approach on half my beers, and the other half are experiments or quaffing beer. There is something satisfying about going to your own tap and pouring yourself a great beer and have it change on a regular basis before you can get tired of it. Kind of like the frat boy approach to sexual development. Maybe its not the best beer, but its still good and I made it, which is the ultimately satisfying part. Of course, it may not be as glamorous as getting "down and dirty" with some nameless hot girl, but it sure gets the job done and its better than your hand, which is kinda similar to commercial beer. It can be good, but not as satisfying as the real thing.

My own opinion is I throw a lot of parties, and I try to be generous as possible with my beer. But I'm not going to waste my best one someone who can't tell the difference from a Guinness and an imperial stout-its just dark beer to them. Usually they don't like drinking beer that's a week old, but 2 weeks, as long as its the right recipe, its good to them.

My goal is to be good enough that I don't need to buy beer except when looking for ideas. And part of being good enough is turning beers around quick enough to meet my demand. Which is about a keg every 2 weeks.

 

[AmicusCervesa]

togabear: i see what youre saying and it makes good sense. i had a guy beg for a good beer and then half drink it at a party and then i find it later sitting on the counter, where it had been for an hour. Bastard. But I'm with you. i never had that fear because i layer my brewing. one week i do something that will take a month to age, the next i do something that will take 2 months, then 4-6 months. by that time,the cycle starts over and the first beer is ready . 1 year later and i have a drawer full of different beers that have all had their time and have aged to perfection. mmm beer

 

[LarryTate]

I use kegs, not bottles. So here's an aging question:

Let's say that I have a recipe that calls for 6 weeks of aging. Usually I leave a beer in primary for 4 weeks, then rack to a keg. At this point I have three choices:

1. Chill keg in my kegerator.
2. Chill keg in my kegerator and begin carbonation.
3. Leave keg at room temperature for one week, then do #2

Questions: Which choice will produce a better beer? Is there a benefit from aging the beer cold vs. room temp (besides clarity). Am I likely to get more mellowing if I leave it at room temp? Is there a problem with aging while under carbonation? Or will that have no effect? Opinions?

 

[rexbanner]

I use kegs, not bottles. So here's an aging question:

Let's say that I have a recipe that calls for 6 weeks of aging. Usually I leave a beer in primary for 4 weeks, then rack to a keg. At this point I have three choices:

1. Chill keg in my kegerator.
2. Chill keg in my kegerator and begin carbonation.
3. Leave keg at room temperature for one week, then do #2

Questions: Which choice will produce a better beer? Is there a benefit from aging the beer cold vs. room temp (besides clarity). Am I likely to get more mellowing if I leave it at room temp? Is there a problem with aging while under carbonation? Or will that have no effect? Opinions?

IMO beer is best aged at room temperature. However, since it's already in the keg, you could just start carbing it up. I like secondary because it gives the beer more time to mature, and for additional yeast to drop out.

 

[3Card]

As far as pitching rates go, I just wish that the available information (other than the info on forums such as this) would be reliable for a new brewer. Part of the reason that the first few batches are inferior are indeed related to poor sanitation, poor temp control, etc. But I venture to say that a LOT of those initial shortcomings are due to prepackaged kits with awful directions.... The kits come with inadequate yeast, as well as poor reflection of the amount of yeast needed. I hate to think abt how many have followed this advice, made awful initial brews, and then gave up. Even the mrmalty calculator suggests far different pitch volumes than the instructions on packets marketed by the yeast companies themselves, which leads to a LOT of confusion for someone who is new and has no idea what to expect. One would think that the companies supplying the kits would do better to provide better ingredients as well as instructions in order to retain customers...

 

[EricT]

As far as pitching rates go, I just wish that the available information (other than the info on forums such as this) would be reliable for a new brewer. Part of the reason that the first few batches are inferior are indeed related to poor sanitation, poor temp control, etc. But I venture to say that a LOT of those initial shortcomings are due to prepackaged kits with awful directions.... The kits come with inadequate yeast, as well as poor reflection of the amount of yeast needed. I hate to think abt how many have followed this advice, made awful initial brews, and then gave up. Even the mrmalty calculator suggests far different pitch volumes than the instructions on packets marketed by the yeast companies themselves, which leads to a LOT of confusion for someone who is new and has no idea what to expect. One would think that the companies supplying the kits would do better to provide better ingredients as well as instructions in order to retain customers...

I agree with what your saying but I think the beer kits intent is for a beginner to make beer. Which if you follow the directions you will. By the time its done and you have waited the required time IAW the instructions that came with said kit. You cant wait to taste your new creation and when you do, you say Wow! I made that and it taste pretty good, I made beer! So of course like any budding home brewer who just found success, you go to the next kit or a forum like this one and try a recipe as well as a plethora of information about home brewing "good" beer and realize your first beer probably wasn't the best. You discover ways to improve your process, but its too late, you're already hooked on home brew and the job of that first home brew kit is done.