Aging beer: Facts, myths, and discussion

[wheelerc6]

Years ago when I started brewing all I had available was the small Wyeast smack packs (now called the 'Propagator'). I would make a 1 pint starter and that worked fine for every 'typical' ale I did (fine regarding attenuation...not necessarily fine regarding off-flavors). In any case, I thought I was pitching plenty and certainly had no idea it was a fraction of what it should be.

I still need to get the timing down. I was used to having my small 1 pint starters at high krausen when I pitched...but if I pitch the 'correct' amount then that's a 1-1.5 qt. starter in 5 gallons and I hate adding that much 'bad beer' to my fermenter. So I guess I need to start the starters earlier so they can finish and flocc and then I can decant the liquid and only pitch the slurry. Even my cold-pitched lagers krausen within 12-18 hours with just a 1 qt. starter (from an Activator or vial) but per the pitching rate calcs that's like 1/4-1/3 of what it should be.

I drink so little that fast turnaround is the least of my worries. I'm now starting to brew more lagers and funky Belgians just because they take more time (at least this way I can brew without creating a big logjam at the keezer).

I am a little confused by this post. Everything I have read states that a starter is the growing of yeast not the making of beer. The only way to keep the yeast growing is to keep giving it food and oxygen. If the starter goes into krausen than you are making beer not yeast.

Great post Yuri. Just finished reading the entire thread. I too have started skipping moving my beer to secondary. Primary for 2-3 weeks, cold crash than to keg for 7 days. I like to make beers around 1.06 so I am not sure I will be able to get away with not aging for at least 2 weeks. Is it best to age in the keg without carbonation or can I carb than bring back to room temp to age for a short period of time...than back to serving temp?

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I am a little confused by this post. Everything I have read states that a starter is the growing of yeast not the making of beer. The only way to keep the yeast growing is to keep giving it food and oxygen. If the starter goes into krausen than you are making beer not yeast.

You are right that the goal of a starter is to grow yeast and not to make beer. But when we make a starter the yeast grow by making beer. Yeast reproduce well into the fermentation process. When at high krausen the yeast are reproducing as they make beer, we're still growing yeast. I've never had a starter not krausen, even with a stirplate. Hope that clears up what I was saying. That post was a while back and I don't remember the context. Needless to say, I do things quite a bit differently now.

 

[mhermetz]

Don't think I've ever aged a beer longer than a month and that was unintentional.
I was simply busy and it sat in my kegerator for an extra 2 weeks.

The only beer I absolutly let sit for a month is my Irish Red. It's the only beer I can tell a huge difference in taste by aging.

Other then, that my Pilsners, pale ales and Helles all go from grain to glass in under 3 weeks. They taste great, are clear and keep my friends coming back for more.

 

[ReverendTap]

Thanks for the informative thread. I'm still a pretty green brewer and there's a lot of really good information here.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, while reading this I've been drinking one of the last remaining bottles of my spiced Belgian black ale, which is now about two years in the bottle and just keeps on getting better, after starting out a little harsh and unbalanced. But, even I don't want to wait that long most of the time.

 

[imperial]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I thought I'd throw in my $0.02. I brew mainly high gravity beers (1.090 - 1.120). Lately, I've been fermenting in a primary for a week, secondary for a week, and then bottling. The time in the bottle varies for the beer, but I've had one that was ready to go in two weeks.

I'm not sure this is the best method for high grav. I'm planning on comparing this beer to beer that I let sit in a secondary for a month or two.

 

[muddlehead]

quite reader for a longgg time and this post has lots of useful info for everyone

i already practice most of this but i have one question that wasnt answered, i age my high gravity beers at room temp in kegs after racking from primary with cold crash, i know room temp aging speeds up the process but i also know that temperature changes and swings arent good at any point of the process, so the question, i just started an IPA, 1.07 at about 50 ibu, i plan on dry hopping then cold crashing and kegging, i know this beer will have to age before i will like it, do i cold crash then keg then warm it back up to age, or do i cold crash then keg and put it in the kegerator to age and just wait longer?

 

[bol]

I spent some time talking to the brewmaster at my favorite local microbrewery.

They can go from grain to glass in 10 days. Their beer is some of the best I have ever had, ales are meant to be enjoyed fresh.

He says they don't believe you can over pitch your yeast. While they have read about it occurring nobody they have ever spoken to has actually ever experienced it. By pitching yeast into half of their wort and adding the second half the next day he says they get complete fermentation in 48 hours. They give the beer a couple days to clear, cold crash, and keg. It's fantastic.

 

[remilard]

qi just started an IPA, 1.07 at about 50 ibu, i plan on dry hopping then cold crashing and kegging, i know this beer will have to age before i will like it,

You ever had a Pliny The Elder? Thats a pretty good IPA and quite a bit bigger than your. It is 3 weeks grain to glass. Just starts getting worse the minute it is separated from the dry hops.

 

[NorCalAngler]

By pitching yeast into half of their wort and adding the second half the next day he says they get complete fermentation in 48 hours.

I like this idea a lot. I have a 1 gallon carboy and I'm thinking I could fill 3/4 of the gallon with wort and pitch the yeast and fill my primary with the rest of the wort. I would let the yeast reproduce for a day and then pitch the gallon jug the next day. Thoughts?

 

[wheelerc6]

I like this idea a lot. I have a 1 gallon carboy and I'm thinking I could fill 3/4 of the gallon with wort and pitch the yeast and fill my primary with the rest of the wort. I would let the yeast reproduce for a day and then pitch the gallon jug the next day. Thoughts?

The problem I have with this is the 1/2 of wort that the yeast is not pitched in is a prime target for bad bacteria to grow. The quicker I can get my yeast into my wort the better.

 

[motobrewer]

i'm still struggling with this. it took my porter 2 months of keg aging to become tasty. it was drinkable after 3 weeks in the keg, but wasn't close to great until after 2 months.

i make starters, but have no stir plate. is it really just about more yeast?

 

[Malticulous]

But, Yuri, I bottle condition my beer! Well, my friend, you have to wait an extra 2-3 weeks. There's no getting around that. Yeast work slowly when under pressure in an alcoholic environment. Patience is still a virtue..

I just started kegging. I still bottle half of all my batches. The bottles are better long before the kegs.

I'm an excellent bottler. I can carb mid gravity beers in three days. To do that in a keg may require shaking back up the sediment. C02 from bottle conditioning comes from within the beer. In a keg it comes forced in from the top. C02 will stay in suspension in a bottle under pressure. It will take time or agitation to go into suspension in a keg. Lower temperatures help in the kegs but is not as effective as bottle conditioning can be (agitation is the only way to beat it.).

A bottle is much smaller. Sediment will settle on the bottom faster. Cooler kegging temps assistant sedimentation but a keg is so much bigger that when compared with my fast bottle carb times the storage temp is irrelevant.

My kegs have took three times as long as my bottles to get as good. I need to become an expert kegger.

My Hefe was (almost) an exception and the above explains why.

 

[wheelerc6]

Will beer only age when carbonated?

I ask this because I made a 10 gallon batch a couple of weeks ago of an amber. After fermentation I kegged 5 gallons and forced carbed. The other 5 gallons I dry hopped. After a week in the keg the first 5 gallons tasted green but after another week the caramel notes really started to come through on the pallet and nose. I figured the dry hopped beer would show these caramel notes as soon as it was carbed but I had to let it sit at least 2 weeks after carbonation to get the caramel notes on it.

 

[aphex732]

I'm drinking a 30 day old brew now, and I don't think it's going to get better. It started at 1.068 and tastes very much like Maudite.

I LOVE Maudite (La Fin Du Monde is another great one) - got a recipe?

 

[Malticulous]

It and a few better ones are in another thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/new-obsession-la-maudite-unibroue-7831/?highlight=Maudite

 

[Desert_Sky]

Fact

most brewery owners start bitching if the beer isnt packaged at 15 days

Fact

10 day beer isn't uncommon

 

[Stuntman]

FACT: I've only met a few beers I didn't like.

Read entire thread, Great job Yuri. I am not going to rib you about the Budweiser comment around post 145, as I have tried a Pabst Blue Ribbon last night and really enjoyed the dang thing. My new son in law has turned me on to so many great beers, he always has Pabst in the fridge (reminds him of his college days). I rib him all of the time, because he is not afraid of spending 5 bucks on a good beer (Hobgoblin or the like). I am going to try another one tonight to test my taste buds when I get home after work.

Thread is great, I was looking for a cheap way to control fermentation temps, to test if it is worth the effort. I see that everyone here agrees it IS important. I have never done it in my 6 years of HBing (still learning). Thank you for that one. I will always use a secondary, just the way I am set up. I am like the post around 90 or so, I use the "Keep Everything Full Method." People always have me bring the beer, everyone else has the briskets and side dishes....I am asked to please bring Home Brew...Now I have learned that when someone wants my brew for a party I can turn one in a few weeks, Thanks for that one! Lastly Thanks for bringing to my attention, my stupidity...Have a stir plate, didn't plan my brew session, sprinkled 4 month old Notingham, 20 hours later sprinkled Nother Notinham.... Should have used the dang Stir Plate!

 

[dragonlor20]

FACT: I've only met a few beers I didn't like.

Read entire thread, Great job Yuri. I am not going to rib you about the Budweiser comment around post 145, as I have tried a Pabst Blue Ribbon last night and really enjoyed the dang thing. My new son in law has turned me on to so many great beers, he always has Pabst in the fridge (reminds him of his college days). I rib him all of the time, because he is not afraid of spending 5 bucks on a good beer (Hobgoblin or the like). I am going to try another one tonight to test my taste buds when I get home after work.

Thread is great, I was looking for a cheap way to control fermentation temps, to test if it is worth the effort. I see that everyone here agrees it IS important. I have never done it in my 6 years of HBing (still learning). Thank you for that one. I will always use a secondary, just the way I am set up. I am like the post around 90 or so, I use the "Keep Everything Full Method." People always have me bring the beer, everyone else has the briskets and side dishes....I am asked to please bring Home Brew...Now I have learned that when someone wants my brew for a party I can turn one in a few weeks, Thanks for that one! Lastly Thanks for bringing to my attention, my stupidity...Have a stir plate, didn't plan my brew session, sprinkled 4 month old Notingham, 20 hours later sprinkled Nother Notinham.... Should have used the dang Stir Plate!

Check that Nottingham against some of the "New Nottingham" threads around here. We have been struggling with a 72 hour start time on Nottingham lately. It is something to do with them changing the date printing method on their packaging, causing air to penetrate the package and kill off a significant portion of the yeast. Check it out, and make sure you have enough head room at 72 hours...

 

[DocBrown]

I thought I'd toss in there that one of the guys in our homebrew club brought a brown ale to our Tuesday night meeting a couple months ago that he had brewed the previous Sunday. Not Sunday a week and half before, Sunday 2 days prior! It was a simple brown ale recipe pitched directly on the yeast cake of another brown ale, so fermentation took off immediately. He pulled a sample from his fermenter and force-carbed it Tuesday evening before the meeting. If he hadn't told us its age we never would have guessed! It was certainly young and probably was much better about two weeks later, but it was a perfectly good homebrewed beer that was only two days old.

 

[bkov]

"Budweiser goes from grain to bottle in 28 days"

i was watching a special on budwieser today on tv and they said that it sits in the fermentor tanks with the beechwood for 30days.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I think the main reason to get into home brewing is to eliminate the addition of chemicals and preservatives in the beer making process and to craft a really natural beer. I have to ask where and how does the chemical and preservatives measure into this thread? I don't disagree with what's been said, but commercial beers are notorious for using chemicals to brew their beers and increase profit margins.

Screwy Brewer

 

[freudhawk]

Read it all!!!

Great topic and I agree. Since I have been pitching high amounts of yeast, watching ferm temps, etc, my beers have been very clean tasting. Now that I am figuring out water chemistry they are getting even better!

 

[fredthecat]

i definitely try to above all keep it simple, i see alot of recipes online with crazy long lists of different kinds of malts in tiny amounts

personally though even if its possible to brew a beer in a short amount of time, i have no problem with waiting, i always try to let mine sit as long as possible

 

[Hannable1975]

( small bump )

I have learned so much from this thread - read the whole thing TWICE !

Really - it's threads like this that make HBT so valuable to me - thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge folks.

And for what I hae learned - pitch rate pitch rate pitch rate !

 

[Mermaid]

I am in complete agreement with you, as I have been enjoying my clone of Rogue's "Dead Guy" that I brewed at the beginning of September. This is the batch I put in a Tap-a-Draft bottle and force carbed.

However... this is where you lost me:

Cold crash. When the yeast have completed their tasks (including "cleaning up" the twangy taste of "green beer"), bulk chill the beer to below 40°F. Assuming you've done everything correctly to this point, the beer should drop clear very quickly.

Force carbonate. Chill the beer to less than 40°F (it's already there if you cold crashed), set the CO2 at 30 psi, and start shaking the keg. Every 2-3 minutes, carefully bleed the pressure and pour a sample. It should only take two or three iterations before you have perfectly carbonated beer.

Bulk chil requires a separate fridge or stable, cold outdoor temps (or maybe a cave). Apartment dwellers such as myself with no garage, no shed, and no spare fridge have to make do with what we've got.

Force carb requires either a small scale setup such as a tap-a-draft or party pig, or a keg/mini-fridge setup.

A keg system is more or less out of reach, again, for us lowly apartment dwellers without a lot of space (let alone electrical outlets) to go that route.

Again, I do agree with you on most of your points. The Dead Guy clone (a partial mash) was a joy to brew, had a blast working with captured Pacman yeast, it took almost 2 weeks to finish fermenting, another 2 weeks in the secondary (waiting for the T-A-D to arrive), force carbed and was drinking it last weekend.

My dubbel is a problem child, but will certainly grow up to be a good beer someday once it's sat for a while.

Good post tho, I really do wish I had the space for a real keg setup and a separate beer fridge.

 

[otownpyle]

Epic Post! Thanks brother!

 

[bernerbrau]

I concur. I just bought 2 freezers with temp controllers (for fermenting and kegging) and my first brew with that system went grain-to-glass in 16 days. Fermenting near 60 really helped minimize off flavors.

Did not use a starter or aerate, though. I will re-brew the same recipe using a starter when this one kicks, and see how it compares.

 

[edie]

we are using kits, brewers best only so far. using the dry yeast packets that are included in the kit. the directions, as i'm sure you know, 1wk primary 1wk secondary, bottle, 2 weeks you're done. we have been leaving in the primary for 2wks and secondary for 1wk and then with our last batch we kegged, set the pressure at 12psi, into the keezer @ 37* and have been tasting everynight. day 3 not much carbination as of yet, that's fine though, expecting it to be good by the 6-7th day, cross you fingers.

my question(s) - 1) do you recommend sticking with the yeast pckts included in the kits? if you do recommend using a different yeast what would that be?
2) the guys at our LHBS have pretty much said a kit is hard to screw up IF you follow the directions and taking a hydro reading isn't really necessary. agree? 3) further down the line we were thinking about possbily making additions to a "basic" sort of beer kit and adding a different flavor. neither of us are crazy about fruit beers, although we did taste a cherry ale in telluride this year and both loved it. what we did find that we had several pints of was a rye. would love to try and go that route. any ideas?

my reason for posting here is that being new to the art of brewing i'm never really sure if the things i'm reading are going to pertain to "kit" brewing.

have been trying to and have been gathering good information by reading the stickys. thanks for all the information.

 

[neuron555]

Kits are fine to get you started. Just make sure the ingredients, especially the yeast isn't too old. If you are getting from a place that has good stock turnover you're probably OK. Once you get the feel for it, it's pretty easy to put together your own "kit". Lots of good recipes here and other places on line. You should also pick up a couple good books like Palmer's How to Brew and Zainasheff & Palmer's Brewing Classic Styles. They'll give you pointers and have recipes that Can be done with extract or all grain.

 

[neovox]

our last batch we kegged, set the pressure at 12psi, into the keezer @ 37* and have been tasting everynight. day 3 not much carbination as of yet, that's fine though, expecting it to be good by the 6-7th day, cross you fingers.

You're going to need at least a week at 12psi, which is fine. However, if you prefer to hurry it along a bit, you can set it to 30psi for 2-3 days, then purge it back down to about 10 to dispense. For more info search for Force Carbing the board. But there's nothing wrong with the way you're doing it. It just takes a little more time.

1) do you recommend sticking with the yeast pckts included in the kits? if you do recommend using a different yeast what would that be?

For starters the yeast packets in the kits will work just fine, just check the date stamp to make sure the yeast is fresh. Many folks here use liquid yeast, either Wyeast or White Labs. There's a very large variety of strains to choose from. What you choose will depend on what type of beer you're brewing. Dry or liquid, either is fine. You may develop a preference as you gain more experience. If you want to try it you can always buy a liquid yeast for your next kit and save the dry pack for later.

2) the guys at our LHBS have pretty much said a kit is hard to screw up IF you follow the directions and taking a hydro reading isn't really necessary. agree?

Yes and no. True, the kits are pretty difficult to screw up and you can get away without taking a hydro reading, but it's good practice to take those readings, and will be critical as you advance to more difficult brews.

3) further down the line we were thinking about possbily making additions to a "basic" sort of beer kit and adding a different flavor. neither of us are crazy about fruit beers, although we did taste a cherry ale in telluride this year and both loved it. what we did find that we had several pints of was a rye. would love to try and go that route. any ideas?

There are tons of recipes both on this board and on the internet. There are also several very good recipe books available -- Clone Brews, Brewing Classic Styles, or Brew Your Own Magazine. There are recipes for all styles, including those that use fruit or other flavors like vanilla or ginger. I suggest digging through some recipes, then just start brewing. Good luck!