Aging beer: Facts, myths, and discussion

[AlfonzKeisha96]

Great post Yuri, this will be a well discussion...wish i had a bit more input.I will discuss next time.

 

[irit8in]

So what is the effectiveness of well taken care of liquid wyeAst. Is there a way to enhance the start up of the liquid after popping the bag inside?

 

[BrewinBromanite]

I guess it depends on how old, and how well-taken care of it is.

No better way I can think of than to make up a good starter. You can add some yeast nutrient to the starter as well.


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[masaba]

The recommendation of waiting 2 to 3 weeks for bottles to condition doesn't seem like a hard and fast rule either. I am on my second batch (yes, I know that I am a newbie), but both of my batches have carbonated and tasted delicious after a week in the bottle. This was even after cold crashing the second one.

 

[kedash]

From lots of experience, they will taste even better six (6) weeks after bottling.

 

[ericrichards420]

When I started out I couldn't wait either. force carbonated the keg and started drinking right away. I know now to just set the psi to about 12 - 15 and leave it alone for a couple of weeks. The beer will certainly taste better.

 

[brewbama]

When I started out I couldn't wait either. force carbonated the keg and started drinking right away. I know now to just set the psi to about 12 - 15 and leave it alone for a couple of weeks. The beer will certainly taste better.

I had to learn that over time as well. The key is to built the pipeline so you're drinking while you're waiting.


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[mhermetz]

I've been having problems lately with acetaldehyde in my finished beers. Aging doesn't seem to change anything so I've attributed this to under pitching and then removing from the fermentor too early.

The thing that gets me with Yuri's original post is that he says he doesn't Aerate but rather pitches 15g of dry yeast. It makes sense to me because I think my off flavours are coming from underpitching and under aerating causing my yeasties to stress out.
If I just pitch enough yeast then who cares if I have good yeast growth right? Am I missing something here?

 

[helibrewer]

I've been having problems lately with acetaldehyde in my finished beers. Aging doesn't seem to change anything so I've attributed this to under pitching and then removing from the fermentor too early.

The thing that gets me with Yuri's original post is that he says he doesn't Aerate but rather pitches 15g of dry yeast. It makes sense to me because I think my off flavours are coming from underpitching and under aerating causing my yeasties to stress out.
If I just pitch enough yeast then who cares if I have good yeast growth right? Am I missing something here?

Aerating or oxygenating is used because the yeast need to produce sterols which become part of their cell walls. These sterols create a special channel in the cell wall that helps the yeast survive as the alcohol level in the wort increase.

Aerating and oxygenation really don't have a lot to do with yeast growth directly but do effect the yeast populations health as fermentation progresses. This is why even breweries that pitch directly from their harvested yeast still use air or O2.

 

[Simps]

Aerating or oxygenating is used because the yeast need to produce sterols which become part of their cell walls. These sterols create a special channel in the cell wall that helps the yeast survive as the alcohol level in the wort increase.

Aerating and oxygenation really don't have a lot to do with yeast growth directly but do effect the yeast populations health as fermentation progresses. This is why even breweries that pitch directly from their harvested yeast still use air or O2.

Hey helibrewer, do you have a source for this? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to read the article or book you pulled it from.

 

[helibrewer]

Hey helibrewer, do you have a source for this? I'm not doubting you, I'd just like to read the article or book you pulled it from.

I'll try to track something down, it's something Dr. Bamforth covered during a course at Davis.

EDIT: This article covers it pretty well:Ergosterol in fermentation, the specific sterol that yeast use is Ergosterol.

As an aside, Antifungal creams work by destroying this component in fungi.

 

[mhermetz]

Aerating or oxygenating is used because the yeast need to produce sterols which become part of their cell walls. These sterols create a special channel in the cell wall that helps the yeast survive as the alcohol level in the wort increase.

Aerating and oxygenation really don't have a lot to do with yeast growth directly but do effect the yeast populations health as fermentation progresses. This is why even breweries that pitch directly from their harvested yeast still use air or O2.

Okay...So how does Yuri get away with not aerating? I can only assume from your comment that as the alcohol level goes up the need for aeration goes up even if he does pitch extra yeast.

 

[progmac]

Okay...So how does Yuri get away with not aerating? I can only assume from your comment that as the alcohol level goes up the need for aeration goes up even if he does pitch extra yeast.

FWIW, Danstar scientists have said that aeration or O2 isn't needed when using their dry yeasts, properly rehydrated. Something about their dry yeast having sufficient sterols without additional aeration. Their scientists have also said that higher gravity worts benefit from a boost of O2 24 hours into the fermentation.

On the practical side, I have been coming around more and more to dry yeast and I have found that when rehydrated and attemperated that the results have been very good, so good that unless the style really calls for something not available dry, I rarely play around with starters and smack packs or vials anymore. I do have an O2 setup that I use in some situations. This is a big change for me, when I first started brewing I was using dry yeast via the sprinkle method and noticed a big improvement when I went to the liquid yeast, starters and all that. Now I've come back around.

 

[helibrewer]

FWIW, Danstar scientists have said that aeration or O2 isn't needed when using their dry yeasts, properly rehydrated. Something about their dry yeast having sufficient sterols without additional aeration. Their scientists have also said that higher gravity worts benefit from a boost of O2 24 hours into the fermentation.

On the practical side, I have been coming around more and more to dry yeast and I have found that when rehydrated and attemperated that the results have been very good, so good that unless the style really calls for something not available dry, I rarely play around with starters and smack packs or vials anymore. I do have an O2 setup that I use in some situations. This is a big change for me, when I first started brewing I was using dry yeast via the sprinkle method and noticed a big improvement when I went to the liquid yeast, starters and all that. Now I've come back around.

^^^ This. I also make wine and dry yeast is about all that is used. The dry yeast does have a sterol reserve, that combined with the fact that it is very easy to pitch the proper amount makes starters not necessary. There is a case on the wine side for oxygenation and it does seem to help reduce stuck fermentations in some wines....wine must is about devoid of nutrients for yeast which is an entirely different issue.

 

[Horseshoot]

13 days ago, I brewed 10 gallons of a Kentucky Common Beer. I'm calling it "Louisville Slugger", in honor of both, a wonderful company that produced baseball bats, and of a show horse SWMBO owned and showed well.
Being a KY native, the style interested me. I read all I could find, about the style, and slowly developed my own recipe, borrowing from others who had also done research. Noting that the style was typically served fresh, I rushed it from grain to glass. However, I used solid techniques... Appropriate yeast pitching rates, and solid fermentation temp control. I pulled my first glass today. It is good. Grain to glass in 13 days is a first for me.
I only have 5 gallons on tap. The other 5 gallons is still maturing. It will be interesting to see how the additional time maturing will change this brew.

 

[Horseshoot]

Edit: I meant to mention that I used dry yeast (US-05), properly hydrated at a rate of 1 packet per 5 gallons.

 

[chrism101]

I have always brewed grain to keg in 7-10 days

 

[landonrone]

These are recent brews of mine and I'm aging them at least to Christmas. Or at least that's the plan at the moment. The Sack Sweat in secondary is surprisingly delicious already, but could use some time to mellow. I posted this separately, but I think think is a better place for it. Am I making a mistake? The general consensus seems to be against the idea of aging...View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1427666578.964936.jpg

 

[Gary_Oak]

Sack sweat haha I like the way you think I have one called Butt-hole Stout because that's were I got the recipe from

 

[j1n]

These are recent brews of mine and I'm aging them at least to Christmas. Or at least that's the plan at the moment. The Sack Sweat in secondary is surprisingly delicious already, but could use some time to mellow. I posted this separately, but I think think is a better place for it. Am I making a mistake? The general consensus seems to be against the idea of aging...View attachment 267476

Your beers are big in ABV so its fine to age it IMO. I think the only beers that benefit from aging is big beers and sours.




I like how this old thread pops up about fresh beer and so many people gave me crap for telling that guy to dump a 2.5 yr old IPA which he didn't even secondary or do anything to ensure its going to be good for that long. Prob didn't even top off the airlock and didn't even add fresh yeast when bottling. just freakin LOL

 

[Gary_Oak]

People will try to disagree with you just for giggles I found that out using beer advocate the people on there are without a doubt the stupidest people I've ever met

 

[slym2none]

I like how this old thread pops up about fresh beer and so many people gave me crap for telling that guy to dump a 2.5 yr old IPA which he didn't even secondary or do anything to ensure its going to be good for that long. Prob didn't even top off the airlock and didn't even add fresh yeast when bottling. just freakin LOL

Do you ride the subway all day?

 

[j1n]

Do you ride the subway all day?

You fink your funny mate? avin a giggle? i swear on me mum ill fkin wreck you mate.

 

[slym2none]

You fink your funny mate? avin a giggle? i swear on me mum ill fkin wreck you mate.

Are you 13 years old?

 

[j1n]

Are you 13 years old?

lol i was jk dude. you have no sense of humor i guess?

i didnt get your subway comment either...

you old or something?

 

[slym2none]

You didn't get my joke - can I say that you have no sense of humour as well?

 

[j1n]

You didn't get my joke - can I say that you have no sense of humour as well?

lol you must be Canadian with that spelling of humor.

i guess we are on different wave lengths.

this post gave me a chuckle though.

 

[slym2none]

I am a citizen of Earth.

 

[torilen]

I am extremely new to brewing - only about a month and half or so. You'll see me asking LOTS of questions about simple stuff on here.

That said, I've got my second batch of ginger beer brewing...will probably pull it and stick it in the fridge either today or tomorrow. It's been brewing since Sunday evening. The first batch only brewed for about 6 or 7 days, as well. I don't know the difference, really, in all the different flavors and tastes between the different alcohols produced. I don't have a hydrometer yet, so I don't know the exact ABV.

Here is what I do know. The first batch tasted AMAZING, and 16 oz of it got me feeling quite good. This second batch, I believe, will taste even better, because I more closely controlled the amount of ginger, so it doesn't burn as you drink it.

But honestly...this recipe I am using...from boil to drinking in 7 or 8 days...no problems at all.

Other stuff, yes, I can certainly see the need for aging. I have a coffee wine brewing right now, as well. Should be done today or tomorrow, as well (it's only 3 cups worth...quick ferment, I guess). I think that will need to age for a week or two to let the flavors mingle well.

That's my two cents.

- Matthew

 

[RevKev]

I'm sure someone has hit on this but gelatin as a fining agent is absolutely amazing, however the recommended tsp per 5 gallon is not helpful to hard yeasts like US-04 (my IPA did clear but took 5 days).

The more you use the harder it will be to clean but it's worth it. I use a pure sanke system and I can manage