Aging beer: Facts, myths, and discussion

[edie]

thanks for the feedback.

when i look @ recipes i want to look for "extract based w/speciality grains." i don't feel that we're ready for all grain, which i believe gets into the whole mashing thing.

CORRECT?

 

[neovox]

Yup. You should be ok with any extract recipe. The process is the same as a kit.

 

[mjc8870]

I am looking to brew december 3 Mini Mash Holiday Chocolate Stout from AHS. Do you think it will be ready for christmas, if we do 10 day fermentation at 66 degree's and 5 day cold crash at 40 degrees in kegerator, and then couple days to carb.

I have been reading thread and thinking I will be ok. I got late start and want to enjoy for Christmas.

 

[EricT]

I am looking to brew december 3 Mini Mash Holiday Chocolate Stout from AHS. Do you think it will be ready for christmas, if we do 10 day fermentation at 66 degree's and 5 day cold crash at 40 degrees in kegerator, and then couple days to carb.

I have been reading thread and thinking I will be ok. I got late start and want to enjoy for Christmas.

I did an all grain Jamil's Sweet stout on Halloween. It has been bottle conditioning for just over 2 weeks and taste wonderful, so I would say its possible since you are kegging it. Although I would skip the 5 day cold crash and give it 4 of those days in primary.

 

[Bswinter2]

I have to agree with the OP. With exception of my Imperial beers and IPA's, I am generally drinking them 14 to 16 days after the brew.

 

[wildbeers]

great discussion

Hypothetically lets say i have an ale in the primary which i usually age for 14 days and then transfer to the secondary for another 7 days. If my fermentation ends after a week and I've hit my FG is there any advantage to letting it age on the yeast cake and trub in the primary for an extra week as i usually would, or should I just rack to secondary early clearing away a lot of the crud age in secondary for the remaining 14? Is the only purpose of primary fermentation aging to get the gravity down to my desired number?

 

[EricT]

great discussion

Lets say i have an ale in the primary which i usually age for 14 days. If my fermentation stops after a week and I've hit my FG is there any advantage to letting it age on the yeast cake and trub in the primary for an extra week or should I rack it to secondary and let it age there instead?

This one has been discussed alot. Really its up to you. Many brewers including myself don't secondary. Since I'm fairly lazy by nature, I prefer to just let it sit until I'm ready to bottle/keg instead of going through the hassle of cleaning another fermentation vessel just to rack it off a few weeks later.

 

[wildbeers]

This one has been discussed alot. Really its up to you. Many brewers including myself don't secondary. Since I'm fairly lazy by nature, I prefer to just let it sit until I'm ready to bottle/keg instead of going through the hassle of cleaning another fermentation vessel just to rack it off a few weeks later.

Ya I hear what you're saying but for instance right now I have a DIPA in the primary. I planned on 14 days in primary racked to 14 days in secondary Dry hopped, racked to 3 days for another dry hop session hoping all this work pays off with one hoppy smelling mother effer. After 8 days the FG was hit though, should i just move onto my next step or is there something to getting more yeast flavor balanced in the final beer by leaving it in the primary for my full 14?

 

[user 19629]

Ya I hear what you're saying but for instance right now I have a DIPA in the primary. I planned on 14 days in primary racked to 14 days in secondary Dry hopped, racked to 3 days for another dry hop session hoping all this work pays off with one hoppy smelling mother effer. After 8 days the FG was hit though, should i just move onto my next step or is there something to getting more yeast flavor balanced in the final beer by leaving it in the primary for my full 14?

Taste the beer.
If you taste off flavors diacetyl etc. then leave on the yeast afew more days and maybe warm it up a bit, if not move it on down the line.

 

[fredthecat]

This one has been discussed alot. Really its up to you. Many brewers including myself don't secondary. Since I'm fairly lazy by nature, I prefer to just let it sit until I'm ready to bottle/keg instead of going through the hassle of cleaning another fermentation vessel just to rack it off a few weeks later.

i know a lot of the more experienced brewers here dont like to secondary. i do it because i want to get a clearish beer (style dependent). im guessing you want the same though, dont you have a hard time keeping out sediment when bottling? or is there a trick?

 

[Mermaid]

i know a lot of the more experienced brewers here dont like to secondary. i do it because i want to get a clearish beer (style dependent). im guessing you want the same though, dont you have a hard time keeping out sediment when bottling? or is there a trick?

You could try cold crashing, then use gelatin right in the primary, back to the cold, then bottle.

With the tripel I brewed on New Years Eve, I was going to use gelatin but I've just been lazy. It's still in the primary, sitting in the beer closet (which is at about 50-55F). I always use a separate bucket for bottling.

So, cold crash, then rack to the bottling bucket, then bottle. Or, use gelatin in the primary, after cold crashing, let it sit for a bit longer in the cold, then rack to bottling bucket (then bottle).

 

[EricT]

i know a lot of the more experienced brewers here dont like to secondary. i do it because i want to get a clearish beer (style dependent). im guessing you want the same though, dont you have a hard time keeping out sediment when bottling? or is there a trick?

I do get a a very small amount when I rack it to a bottling bucket but if you nadd your priming sugar and let it set for a good 30 minutes most of that will be at the bottom. However I usually keg so it baically gets a cold crash and I just dont drink that first pull from the keg

 

[Tuggy]

I've had a lot of good luck with the Nottingham yeast with fast turn around times. It's done fermenting in 4 days or less. You can let it sit longer or move to secondary if you'd like. My typical schedule with Notty is brew on friday, transfer to secondary on weds. and cold crash for 3 days. Move back to room temp on sat. and bottle monday night. I usually let it sit in the bottle for 2 weeks before cold conditioning, but I've noticed that I have a nice carbonated beer in a week. I've had similar experiences with Safeale 05, but it's not as consistantly quick to work, but still fast.

With out a doubt the last beer I cracked open from the batch was the best, but the first one was still tasty too.. Luckily I have a nice pipeline going now and I have much more patience to let my beer sit longer.

 

[AmicusCervesa]

What is this crap?
“Hallelujah, brother! More beer now!”
Please. Why are any of us in a rush to get a beer on the table? If I want a beer right now that tastes like or better than the average beer, I can go buy one.
And keep my recipe simple? No spices or additives? Great, so now I’ve made a beer that tastes like a marginally better copy of Anchor Steam. Two weeks is too long to wait for something like that.
Pardon me for thinking outside the box but I like my HB to taste like pretty much no other beer around. So what if my stout took 3 months to perfect, instead of 3 weeks? It tasted like chocolate and chicory and love!
Put it this way. I'm married. If I want to dream about getting “down and dirty” with a lady, I ain't gonna waste my time thinking about my wife who is in the other room, doing the same (or marginally better copy) of what we always do. I want to get down with some crazy chick with no restraint and no compunction to do the things wifey won’t.
Odd as it is, that’s why I brew. And that’s why I don’t mind waiting.
So rush through your pedestrian brews. They may be the best mainstream IPAs and porters out there. But don’t tell me this microwave philosophy is the new gospel.

 

[togabear]

What is this crap?
“Hallelujah, brother! More beer now!”
Please. Why are any of us in a rush to get a beer on the table? If I want a beer right now that tastes like or better than the average beer, I can go buy one.
And keep my recipe simple? No spices or additives? Great, so now I’ve made a beer that tastes like a marginally better copy of Anchor Steam. Two weeks is too long to wait for something like that.
Pardon me for thinking outside the box but I like my HB to taste like pretty much no other beer around. So what if my stout took 3 months to perfect, instead of 3 weeks? It tasted like chocolate and chicory and love!
Put it this way. I'm married. If I want to dream about getting “down and dirty” with a lady, I ain't gonna waste my time thinking about my wife who is in the other room, doing the same (or marginally better copy) of what we always do. I want to get down with some crazy chick with no restraint and no compunction to do the things wifey won’t.
Odd as it is, that’s why I brew. And that’s why I don’t mind waiting.
So rush through your pedestrian brews. They may be the best mainstream IPAs and porters out there. But don’t tell me this microwave philosophy is the new gospel.

Ha! I get what you are saying, and its really funny and true. I take that approach on half my beers, and the other half are experiments or quaffing beer. There is something satisfying about going to your own tap and pouring yourself a great beer and have it change on a regular basis before you can get tired of it. Kind of like the frat boy approach to sexual development. Maybe its not the best beer, but its still good and I made it, which is the ultimately satisfying part. Of course, it may not be as glamorous as getting "down and dirty" with some nameless hot girl, but it sure gets the job done and its better than your hand, which is kinda similar to commercial beer. It can be good, but not as satisfying as the real thing.

My own opinion is I throw a lot of parties, and I try to be generous as possible with my beer. But I'm not going to waste my best one someone who can't tell the difference from a Guinness and an imperial stout-its just dark beer to them. Usually they don't like drinking beer that's a week old, but 2 weeks, as long as its the right recipe, its good to them.

My goal is to be good enough that I don't need to buy beer except when looking for ideas. And part of being good enough is turning beers around quick enough to meet my demand. Which is about a keg every 2 weeks.

 

[AmicusCervesa]

togabear: i see what youre saying and it makes good sense. i had a guy beg for a good beer and then half drink it at a party and then i find it later sitting on the counter, where it had been for an hour. Bastard. But I'm with you. i never had that fear because i layer my brewing. one week i do something that will take a month to age, the next i do something that will take 2 months, then 4-6 months. by that time,the cycle starts over and the first beer is ready . 1 year later and i have a drawer full of different beers that have all had their time and have aged to perfection. mmm beer

 

[LarryTate]

I use kegs, not bottles. So here's an aging question:

Let's say that I have a recipe that calls for 6 weeks of aging. Usually I leave a beer in primary for 4 weeks, then rack to a keg. At this point I have three choices:

1. Chill keg in my kegerator.
2. Chill keg in my kegerator and begin carbonation.
3. Leave keg at room temperature for one week, then do #2

Questions: Which choice will produce a better beer? Is there a benefit from aging the beer cold vs. room temp (besides clarity). Am I likely to get more mellowing if I leave it at room temp? Is there a problem with aging while under carbonation? Or will that have no effect? Opinions?

 

[rexbanner]

I use kegs, not bottles. So here's an aging question:

Let's say that I have a recipe that calls for 6 weeks of aging. Usually I leave a beer in primary for 4 weeks, then rack to a keg. At this point I have three choices:

1. Chill keg in my kegerator.
2. Chill keg in my kegerator and begin carbonation.
3. Leave keg at room temperature for one week, then do #2

Questions: Which choice will produce a better beer? Is there a benefit from aging the beer cold vs. room temp (besides clarity). Am I likely to get more mellowing if I leave it at room temp? Is there a problem with aging while under carbonation? Or will that have no effect? Opinions?

IMO beer is best aged at room temperature. However, since it's already in the keg, you could just start carbing it up. I like secondary because it gives the beer more time to mature, and for additional yeast to drop out.

 

[3Card]

As far as pitching rates go, I just wish that the available information (other than the info on forums such as this) would be reliable for a new brewer. Part of the reason that the first few batches are inferior are indeed related to poor sanitation, poor temp control, etc. But I venture to say that a LOT of those initial shortcomings are due to prepackaged kits with awful directions.... The kits come with inadequate yeast, as well as poor reflection of the amount of yeast needed. I hate to think abt how many have followed this advice, made awful initial brews, and then gave up. Even the mrmalty calculator suggests far different pitch volumes than the instructions on packets marketed by the yeast companies themselves, which leads to a LOT of confusion for someone who is new and has no idea what to expect. One would think that the companies supplying the kits would do better to provide better ingredients as well as instructions in order to retain customers...

 

[EricT]

As far as pitching rates go, I just wish that the available information (other than the info on forums such as this) would be reliable for a new brewer. Part of the reason that the first few batches are inferior are indeed related to poor sanitation, poor temp control, etc. But I venture to say that a LOT of those initial shortcomings are due to prepackaged kits with awful directions.... The kits come with inadequate yeast, as well as poor reflection of the amount of yeast needed. I hate to think abt how many have followed this advice, made awful initial brews, and then gave up. Even the mrmalty calculator suggests far different pitch volumes than the instructions on packets marketed by the yeast companies themselves, which leads to a LOT of confusion for someone who is new and has no idea what to expect. One would think that the companies supplying the kits would do better to provide better ingredients as well as instructions in order to retain customers...

I agree with what your saying but I think the beer kits intent is for a beginner to make beer. Which if you follow the directions you will. By the time its done and you have waited the required time IAW the instructions that came with said kit. You cant wait to taste your new creation and when you do, you say Wow! I made that and it taste pretty good, I made beer! So of course like any budding home brewer who just found success, you go to the next kit or a forum like this one and try a recipe as well as a plethora of information about home brewing "good" beer and realize your first beer probably wasn't the best. You discover ways to improve your process, but its too late, you're already hooked on home brew and the job of that first home brew kit is done.

 

[3Card]

I agree. But how difficult is it to tell a new brewer that you need 200B cells (according to mrmalty) to make a 1.060 brew? Wyeast says you only need one packet for that same batch... A lot of kits give you even less, not to mention that the 200B rate assumes young, healthy, viable yeast in the best of circumstances. The whole thing is confusing when starting out. I made ok beer, but it took 6 or 7 batches to realize I was way underpitching by following what I thought was sound advice. Why the big discrepancy? Starters are easy to do, or at the very least, buying an extra packet of yeast and letting a new brewer make BETTER beer if not great beer from the start would keep many more coming back. And I have seen a BIG difference after those first batches by changing nothing more than the pitch rate.

 

[EricT]

So you're saying you think the kits should at least give the new brewer the proper amount of yeast to start with, thereby allowing the new brewer to make better beer? If so I agree. Otherwise trying to explain to a new brewer how to make a yeast starter to get the proper amount of yeast would possibly turn someone off.

 

[3Card]

Exactly. Not to mention getting a new brewer used to just how much yeast is needed to work appropriately. It still escapes me why the difference exists between the wyeast recommendation of 1 pack (100B cells in an ideal packet), and the mrmalty calculator. Wyeast says 1 packet is sufficient for a 1060 ale, whereas mrmalty estimates more than twice that number of yeast cells is needed....

 

[planker101]

Alright, I read the entire thread and liked it, however, the question that caused me to read the thread wasn't answered. (or I missed it) Either way, here goes

First off, I keg my beer.

I am going to be brewing an October fest and a Russian imperial stout soon and will be aging both of them in kegs.

Is it better to carbonate them THEN age them, or age them and then carbonate them?

 

[EricT]

Alright, I read the entire thread and liked it, however, the question that caused me to read the thread wasn't answered. (or I missed it) Either way, here goes

First off, I keg my beer.

I am going to be brewing an October fest and a Russian imperial stout soon and will be aging both of them in kegs.

Is it better to carbonate them THEN age them, or age them and then carbonate them?[/QUOTE

Some people bottle then age, other age then bottle. Either way is fine, I believe the bottle aging method is a bit newer so don't be surprsed if you get some folks against it

 

[Dilligans]

I make beer all the time with a fast turn around... I can have it in a keg ready to drink in 8 days... but thats only for my belgian wit.. since its cloudy who cares about againg... drink up. Every thing else I make takes time.

 

[Dilligans]

I agree with that statement.. sometimes I just mix a bunch of **** together... Some times I say just go with it.. I usually dont have a brew that is that bad... worst case scenro I get drunk.

 

[Monstar]

Love this post.

 

[motobrewer]

Alright, I read the entire thread and liked it, however, the question that caused me to read the thread wasn't answered. (or I missed it) Either way, here goes

First off, I keg my beer.

I am going to be brewing an October fest and a Russian imperial stout soon and will be aging both of them in kegs.

Is it better to carbonate them THEN age them, or age them and then carbonate them?

i just bottled a RIS that I primaried for 1.5 months and secondaried for 7 months. it's pretty good.

 

[midfielder5]

I am going to be brewing an October fest and a Russian imperial stout soon and will be aging both of them in kegs.
Is it better to carbonate them THEN age them, or age them and then carbonate them?

I would (at the very least) add a few shots of CO2 and then release the valve a bit after shutting off the CO2. This way you purge the keg's head space of oxygen. I don't have a better answer to your question about aging beer in a keg.