Don't forget this kind of tubing has the PET liner so any plastic you smell is likely the outer formulation that makes it supple and bendable.
Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier
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Hey @day_tripper just curious…why did you go with 5mm for the gas lines? I redid my gas and beer lines with the 4mm and seems to work fine.
Strictly for ease of use with my existing, 1/4" barbed gas system, so I can avoid replacing all those QDs and manifolds with MFL versions. 5mm has to be easier to stretch over those barbs than 4mm...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
I have both in my system, which is all based on 1/4" barbs (4mm for beer to keep the tubing runs short, and 5mm for gas, because it's easier to fit and I don't want/need the resistance on the gas side).
Definitely easier to fit the 5mm on the 1/4", but 4mm is doable if you want the extra resistance to keep runs short.
Got it. I did not have any barbs when I did mine. All flare fittings which were compatible with the John guest stuff Bobby M sells.
Most of my current plumbing was from my first keezer - which goes back 11 years ago now.
I'm not even sure there were PTC fittings back then...
Cheers!
I'm not even sure there were PTC fittings back then...
Cheers!
Carolina_Matt
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I've been using Accuflex 235 since August, and I really like the quality of the beer compared to the cheap vinyl line. It's a pain dealing with the lack of flexibility, and the 16 foot length. So I bought one of the 39 foot pieces and installed 7 feet of it on one of my taps. It fit perfectly in my existing John Guest fittings.
It's amazing how much easier it is to work with, and my initial impression is very positive. It basically takes all of the good things about the Accuflex and all of the good things about the vinyl line, and puts them together in one inexpensive solution.
I'll give it a week or so to make sure this is the line length I want, and then I'll cut it up and install it on my other taps.
It's amazing how much easier it is to work with, and my initial impression is very positive. It basically takes all of the good things about the Accuflex and all of the good things about the vinyl line, and puts them together in one inexpensive solution.
I'll give it a week or so to make sure this is the line length I want, and then I'll cut it up and install it on my other taps.
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm sold and find no reason to look to any other solution. This stuff (EVA Barrier) is the stuff!
Rikk
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So far I’m very happy with Kegland EVA. It’s too soon to tell what repeated cleaning cycles will do the in interior but I love the flexibility. I have been using one Accuflex line since spring (6 months) and I like the that it imparts no flavor but it’s stiff as a board and having to use twice the length as Kegland EVA I may change that out sooner than later.
Agreed, this stuff should be on everyone's wish list.
I changed out all of my beer and gas lines - and I mean ALL of them - to the EVAbarrier tubing. That's a 6 tap keezer with low and high pressure external CO2 primaries plus a beer gas feed from another cylinder, through a 6 way manifold, all of the internal and external lines switched and all but the manifold outputs fitted with PTC connectors; and three full size fridges each with 4-way CO2 manifolds being fed by three primary regs on two cylinders.
In the end I used up all of the 39' of 4mm for the beer lines in the keezer, and two full rolls of the 5mm for all of the gas lines across all four units. And installed a poopyload of PTC fittings from John Guest, Duotight and DMfit.
Totally worth it. The first pour has no stale taint to it at all, and the beer line lengths are much more manageable. I'm running 6' on five faucets including my nitro faucet, and 9' for my high-carbed Saison (there's your 39 feet
) so only a turn or so looped atop the kegs after the flow meters. Also, the thinner OD (vs the 7/16" Bevlex 200) leaves more room in my air-cooled tower column for return air which can't hurt.
Now I just need to find someone who needs a crap load of 1/4" swivels and worm clamps. I must have around 100 of each...
Cheers!
I changed out all of my beer and gas lines - and I mean ALL of them - to the EVAbarrier tubing. That's a 6 tap keezer with low and high pressure external CO2 primaries plus a beer gas feed from another cylinder, through a 6 way manifold, all of the internal and external lines switched and all but the manifold outputs fitted with PTC connectors; and three full size fridges each with 4-way CO2 manifolds being fed by three primary regs on two cylinders.
In the end I used up all of the 39' of 4mm for the beer lines in the keezer, and two full rolls of the 5mm for all of the gas lines across all four units. And installed a poopyload of PTC fittings from John Guest, Duotight and DMfit.
Totally worth it. The first pour has no stale taint to it at all, and the beer line lengths are much more manageable. I'm running 6' on five faucets including my nitro faucet, and 9' for my high-carbed Saison (there's your 39 feet
) so only a turn or so looped atop the kegs after the flow meters. Also, the thinner OD (vs the 7/16" Bevlex 200) leaves more room in my air-cooled tower column for return air which can't hurt.Now I just need to find someone who needs a crap load of 1/4" swivels and worm clamps. I must have around 100 of each...
Cheers!
OP
OP
lump42
The Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob
Have you noticed any difference bewteen the John Guest, Doutight, and DMfit fittings?Agreed, this stuff should be on everyone's wish list.
I changed out all of my beer and gas lines - and I mean ALL of them - to the EVAbarrier tubing. That's a 6 tap keezer with low and high pressure external CO2 primaries plus a beer gas feed from another cylinder, through a 6 way manifold, all of the internal and external lines switched and all but the manifold outputs fitted with PTC connectors; and three full size fridges each with 4-way CO2 manifolds being fed by three primary regs on two cylinders.
In the end I used up all of the 39' of 4mm for the beer lines in the keezer, and two full rolls of the 5mm for all of the gas lines across all four units. And installed a poopyload of PTC fittings from John Guest, Duotight and DMfit.
Totally worth it. The first pour has no stale taint to it at all, and the beer line lengths are much more manageable. I'm running 6' on five faucets including my nitro faucet, and 9' for my high-carbed Saison (there's your 39 feet
Now I just need to find someone who needs a crap load of 1/4" swivels and worm clamps. I must have around 100 of each...
Cheers!
Rikk
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I must have over-tightened the John Guest fitting attached to my quick disconnect because it leaked. A saw a hairline crack when I removed. I replaced with Duotight. This is on my portable “Festival” unit and I won’t take it out until spring and my regular kegerator everything is just weeks old, so no long term info on my end.
To my eye (and this is not scientific by any means) it seems like Duotight fittings are slightly softer plastic than John Guest.
To my eye (and this is not scientific by any means) it seems like Duotight fittings are slightly softer plastic than John Guest.
Aside from metric vs imperial sizing differences (eg: the hex sections of Duotight are metric while the DMfit and JG are imperial) I can't say I noted any functional differences between the three...
Cheers!
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Because nobody wants taint in their beer!
this 4mm EVA stuff...using it on 1/4 barbs, is a hose clamp needed or it the fit tight enough to hold on it's own? I'm currently using otiker clamps on my 3/16 bevlex lines but not even sure those are really needed at typical serving pressures.
Having fit the 4mm tubing over 1/4" barbed shutoffs on my 6-way manifold it did seem one could get away sans clamps (though I put them on anyway - over a short piece of heat shrink tubing. All other beer and gas connections use PTC fittings.
fwiw, I was also able to stretch the 5mm tubing over a 3/8" barbed shutoff on my beer gas regulator. That required using a swaging tool and heat source to gradually stretch the tubing so the liner didn't get caught on the barb edge and tear back, but I got 'er done
Also, this demonstrates the bend radius of the 4mm line...
Cheers!
fwiw, I was also able to stretch the 5mm tubing over a 3/8" barbed shutoff on my beer gas regulator. That required using a swaging tool and heat source to gradually stretch the tubing so the liner didn't get caught on the barb edge and tear back, but I got 'er done
Also, this demonstrates the bend radius of the 4mm line...
Cheers!
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Glad I found this thread. I've moved from 4 to 6 taps. I'm currently using the Ultra Silver barrier lines I got about 3-4 years ago with my old setup. I have also upgraded to stainless shanks since upgrading my tower. That said...
I have the shanks with non- removable 3/16" nipple ends. I've thought about taking one or two and grind off the nipples so I could run one of the John Guest fitting on it. Would that be possible?
Another thing, could you use the larger 5mm line as the beer line? Seems slightly larger than 3/16 ID line, so I wonder if there would be leaking issues if that were used. That and having to use longer lengths.
I have the shanks with non- removable 3/16" nipple ends. I've thought about taking one or two and grind off the nipples so I could run one of the John Guest fitting on it. Would that be possible?
Another thing, could you use the larger 5mm line as the beer line? Seems slightly larger than 3/16 ID line, so I wonder if there would be leaking issues if that were used. That and having to use longer lengths.
Soitenly!
Too cheap to replace my original chromed brass shanks I used a Dremel with the fiber cutoff disk to remove the barbs.
I did remove the shanks first but cutting the barbs off literally took just 10 minutes for all six shanks. Brass cuts like butter...
Cheers!
Too cheap to replace my original chromed brass shanks I used a Dremel with the fiber cutoff disk to remove the barbs.
I did remove the shanks first but cutting the barbs off literally took just 10 minutes for all six shanks. Brass cuts like butter...
Cheers!
Mine are stainless shanks. That might be a bit more tricky, but I may take it to work to have it done the next Saturday I volunteer. My boss home brews, so maybe I can work out something.....
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
I'm not using clamps. The 4mm is not easy to get to fit and when it does, it isn't going anywhere. YMMV.
Traditionally, 3/16" ID lines are used with 1/4" barbs. The extra ~64th of the 5mm line ID should still be within the working range of the same barbs...
Cheers!
Appreciate it. I may go this route then first.
off topic: Where did you get the insulation that's in your tower? That looks like packing foam, but can't seem to find it on Amazon.
It is indeed 1" thick closed cell packing foam scavenged over the years from shipping cartons.
I use it to insulate probes strapped to carboys as well. Great stuff and cheap AF
Cheers!
I use it to insulate probes strapped to carboys as well. Great stuff and cheap AF
Cheers!
Thank you for that info. I plan on doing the same.
I ordered some EVA barrier line (the larger diameter) and some PTC fittings for the ball lock ends. I plan on changing out all my lines if this works out. The gas side has Bevlex 204 lines. I'll probably just leave it since it's not touching the beer.
On another note.....I do pressure transfers using a ss racking cane to push beer from my Fermonsters to my kegs. How would you connect the EVA and/or the 235 to the racking cane if one wanted? I think it wouldn't matter since the beer wouldn't be sitting in the line, but if it can be done, might as well then.
I ordered some EVA barrier line (the larger diameter) and some PTC fittings for the ball lock ends. I plan on changing out all my lines if this works out. The gas side has Bevlex 204 lines. I'll probably just leave it since it's not touching the beer.
On another note.....I do pressure transfers using a ss racking cane to push beer from my Fermonsters to my kegs. How would you connect the EVA and/or the 235 to the racking cane if one wanted? I think it wouldn't matter since the beer wouldn't be sitting in the line, but if it can be done, might as well then.
Even if it's not touching the beer oxygen will still diffuse through the line and as soon as you pull the next pint you'll be pushing it into the keg where with time it will oxidize the beer. If you have enough line left (I'm assuming the gas lines will be much shorter since they don't need to be balanced) since you already did half the work it would still be worth it to replace the gas lines too.
I haven't closely followed all the recent threads on the topic... would someone be kind enough to summarize the options for oxygen-barrier lines if you already have 1/4" steel barbs in place? Hopefully an upgrade is possible without getting new shanks and ball-lock fittings. I'm definitely tired of my cheap Home Depot vinyl tubing as a serving line.
I can see that point, but then again I would think there's more pressure from the co2 inside the lines than from the oxygen (air) outside it.
Thanks!
This answer was too fast and too easy. There must be a catch!
This answer was too fast and too easy. There must be a catch!
Carolina_Matt
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Well, you'll also need fittings to go on your existing fittings. It's easy and inexpensive, but you most likely won't want to try fitting this line on your existing fittings.
I use this on my shanks:
http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843483.htm
And I use this on my ball locks:
http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843481.htm
I'm not sure which fittings would go over the gas manifold though, if you use these for both liquid and gas.
No catch. The tubing you have from Home Depot may be the worst to use. It's probably thinned walled compared to what you get from your local brew shops and I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't food grade.
I have the silver barrier tubing I bought a couple of years ago. I'm replacing it with one of the two brands mentioned in this thread (the EVA Barrier from Williams Brewing), along with the appropriate push to connect fittings for my ball lock disconnects. I'm still using the same ball lock connectors since I've started kegging. I did replace my shanks, but that's because my others weren't stainless steel.
EDIT: Also, if you're wanting to go to the push to connect fittings that have been mentioned in this thread you will have to replace and/or modify as mentioned by the other members (grind the nipples off the shanks, switch to MFL threaded disconnects).
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That’s a common misconception but Vale is right on this. It’s the difference between partial pressure of oxygen in your gas and oxygen in the atmosphere that pushes the oxygen through the lines. The other gasses are not really making any difference in the diffusion process.
Oh yeah, there is the catch -- replace or modify the shanks. Mine aren't 2-part, the barb can't be removed. Seems pretty straightforward with the right shanks, thanks.
Yeah, the HD tubing is garbage for sure. Embarrassed I let it stay this long.
Edit:
Got a link? I have had mixed luck ordering "stainless steel" parts so if you have shanks you can vouch for I wanna know about it!
Yeah, the HD tubing is garbage for sure. Embarrassed I let it stay this long.
Edit:
Got a link? I have had mixed luck ordering "stainless steel" parts so if you have shanks you can vouch for I wanna know about it!
fwiw, it doesn't take much to get the 4mm ID EVAbarrier over 1/4" barbs. It takes even less to get the 5mm ID line over 1/4" barbs. It takes a little effort to get the 5mm over 5/16" barbs, and a much more time and care to get the 5mm over 3/8" barbs.
Done all of that successfully. A swaging tool is handy for the 5/16" barbs and pretty much mandatory for 3/8" barbs (plus plenty of patience to do it right).
For anything with threads, though, go with the PTC connectors from John Guest, Duotight, and/or DMfit. They're the bomb!
Cheers!
Done all of that successfully. A swaging tool is handy for the 5/16" barbs and pretty much mandatory for 3/8" barbs (plus plenty of patience to do it right).
For anything with threads, though, go with the PTC connectors from John Guest, Duotight, and/or DMfit. They're the bomb!
Cheers!
Good to know. Thanks guys for the clarification. I guess I'll go ahead and swap out the gas lines as well.
Going back to your previous posts....
There's not 'really a catch' unless you're intent on going to the push to connect style of fittings for the shanks and your ball lock disconnects as well as swapping out the beer lines. So, if you're just wanting to change out the beer lines to good quality ones, it should be just a matter of swapping out the old lines and replace the new. You can still use your shanks and ball locks.
Will the new line be harder to put on compared to the old? Possible. I've not got to that point yet as I ordered my new lines a few days ago. My shanks have the attached nipples so there's that to deal with, but my ball lock disconnects have the MFL threaded ends instead of the barbed end and I ordered the PTC fittings for them.
These are the shanks I have: LINK
I like them. Good for the price. However, if you're intent on replacing everything, then I would get these shanks AND the PTC tail piece from brewhardware.com (Bobby M's shop).
LINK 1
LINK 2
Both those together are cheaper than I what paid for my shanks. If I had it to do over, it would be a no brainer, but brew lesson learned. The short? Just swapping out your beer lines should give you the biggest improvement. Hope this helps.
If you buy the EVAbarrier tubing from me, I offer to pre-flare the ends that need to go over barbs. I use a heat gun and a swaging tool. You will want to use Oetiker clamps in that case.
I finally have all of my pieces put together, but I surely wish I'd known about this option before I made about four false starts at getting all of this right on my simple system. I strongly suggest others consider the option Bobby offers.
Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
Mine came with it
.
fwiw, my tower box came with 1/2" styrofoam insulation - that didn't survive the dismantling.
Switching to 1" closed cell foam was a definite upgrade, plus it's flexible so can be removed and reinstalled if necessary where the styrofoam would just crack and crumble...
Cheers!
Switching to 1" closed cell foam was a definite upgrade, plus it's flexible so can be removed and reinstalled if necessary where the styrofoam would just crack and crumble...
Cheers!
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