Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier

[cheesebach]

That's kinda what I'm thinking.
Which is not bad - I may be able to run really short lines like 3 ft.

I’ve wondered the same about my Perlick flow control faucets. I’ve been running 11’ of bevseal ultra barrier with those faucets, usually at 12psi and 40F for the past year and pours on the slow side even wide open. Imagine I could probably cut at least 3 feet off without causing any issues, but it was such a b#%ch to get on the shank in my tower that I haven’t wanted to mess with it.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I’ve wondered the same about my Perlick flow control faucets. I’ve been running 11’ of bevseal ultra barrier with those faucets, usually at 12psi and 40F for the past year and pours on the slow side even wide open. Imagine I could probably cut at least 3 feet off without causing any issues, but it was such a b#%ch to get on the shank in my tower that I haven’t wanted to mess with it.

WHy not cut it from the Ball Lock end?

 

[MikeCo]

I received my 4mm EVABarrier tubing, Duotight shanks and fittings. My first issue was that the shank bodies were just a little big (about .005 inch) to fit into the tower holes. So I decided to connect a 6.5 foot length of tubing to one of the existing shanks just to see how it works, and enlarge the holes at a later time. I was able to stretch the tubing over the 1/4 barb without much trouble by immersing it and the shank barb in boiling water for a few seconds, putting the end of a needle nose pliers in the tubing to flare it slightly, and then pushing it on the barb.

I attached the Duotight flare fitting to a ball lock connector and pushed the other end of the tubing in until I felt it stop. When I attached the connector to the keg it immediately started leaking foam. I had only pushed pushed the tubing half way into the fitting. After pushing harder to get it fully connected, the leak stopped.

So all was connected and working, but now I find the pour is much faster and foamier than the 10 feet of 3/16 PVC line I had been using, which doesn't make sense based on others' results and the calculated values. I double checked the tubing to make sure I didn't accidentally get the 5mm size. I run at 15 psi, 38F.

This weekend I hope to drill out the tower holes with a step bit, install the Duotight shanks, and run new line to the other keg and faucet to see how that compares. If it also runs fast at 6.5 feet, I'm likely to go to 10 foot lengths and scrap the two 6.5 foot lengths I already cut. It should be a quick easy process with all the fittings installed.

 

[h22lude]

Did you let all the new connections and tubing drop to serving temp?

 

[MikeCo]

Did you let all the new connections and tubing drop to serving temp?

Yes, I thought it might be from the beer and keg warming as I worked on it with the kegerator door open at times, but the pour was the same 24 hours later. That keg is close to empty, which may have some effect. But it just seemed like the beer came out faster than it did with the other line.

 

[Robert65]

Pour is just a bit slower than the calculator suggested.... I suppose there are lots of variables not taken into account like QD and faucet types.... BTW if I get to it this weekend I'm going to replace an Intertap with a Perlick. Curious to see how that affects it.

So I did put a Perlick in place of an Intertap, and the pour is a hair faster. Not foamier, maybe even smoother, just about exactly where I want it and where the calculations put it. So this seems to indicate that different faucets provide sufficiently different restriction to affect the whole equation, which isn't surprising. I figured the little Perlick ball in an otherwise open space would provide less restriction than the long shuttle mechanism, but wasn't sure it would be as significant as it seems to be. So quite probably, @Cavpilot2000, the extra bits in your FC QDs are a factor.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I figured the little Perlick ball in an otherwise open space would provide less restriction than the long shuttle mechanism, but wasn't sure it would be as significant as it seems to be. So quite probably, @Cavpilot2000, the extra bits in your FC QDs are a factor.

Quite possibly, as I am running Intertaps (non-FC with spring) too.

 

[Robert65]

Quite possibly, as I am running Intertaps (non-FC with spring) too.

In your case you'd seem to have an easy solution, which is to cut the line as short as is practical and let the FC QD do the balancing, calculations unnecessary. Pretty handy. BTW I had the spring in that Intertap too, hadn't even considered whether it came into play.

 

[MikeCo]

I enlarged the holes in my tower enough with a Dremel tool to fit the Duotight shanks in and installed them. The shanks with the fittings and tubing fit pretty easily into my tower; I was worried it would be hard to fit it all in. Now both taps are running 6.5 feet of 4mm EVABarrier. I timed my pour and it was 10 seconds for a pint with a proper amount of foam. FWIW, the Mike Soltys calculator says I only need 5.05 feet of 4mm tubing for a 10 second pour for the my parameters. I have to say I'm satisfied with the tubing, shanks and push fittings. I don't taste any plastic flavors, and changing lines will be very easy in the future.

 

[day_trippr]

Thanks for that report, I've been following the data as it comes in wrt this line and I'd say 6.5' is at the longer end of the range with the 4mm line. What pressure are you running?

6.5' is about the minimum for my 6 keg keezer and a ten second pour is actually my target, so that's somewhat reassuring. I've been keeping an eye on users' experiences hoping I don't have to go to the 5mm ID (which is actually larger then 3/16")...

Cheers!

 

[MikeCo]

Thanks for that report, I've been following the data as it comes in wrt this line and I'd say 6.5' is at the longer end of the range with the 4mm line. What pressure are you running?

6.5' is about the minimum for my 6 keg keezer and a ten second pour is actually my target, so that's somewhat reassuring. I've been keeping an eye on users' experiences hoping I don't have to go to the 5mm ID (which is actually larger then 3/16")...

Cheers!

I'm running 14 psi.

 

[day_trippr]

Ah...Ok, that's a few psi higher than I run for most ales.
Good to know, thanks.

Cheers!

 

[Rikk]

Does anyone have an official document on what temperature these can withstand during a BLC cleaning?

 

[Robert65]

Does anyone have an official document on what temperature these can withstand during a BLC cleaning?

Not directly, but: According to Kegland it is rated for 100 psi at 50°C, which would imply that it is also rated for at least 50°C. Which (= 122°F) is a shade hotter than I run my BLC.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I picked up some of the EVA and planning to test it on the gas side in the near future.

The plastic mfl connectors that would attach to my distributor manifolds has me a little paranoid about potential leaks. Doesn't seem like it would be as durable over time as the stainless steel mfl ones I am currently using on normal gas tubing

I usually shut the home brewery down for a few months in winter since I brew outside. As soon as I kick my last keg I'm going to hook these up and test em at 20 PSI for a few weeks and see how they do

 

[Robert65]

I haven't seen any evidence of leaks in those connectors. My test being I can stick my head down in the keezer and all I get a whiff of is air. I actually have had leaks detectable by that method with conventional flare fittings on my old lines, so I'd say they're at least on an equal footing.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I haven't seen any evidence of leaks in those connectors. My test being I can stick my head down in the keezer and all I get a whiff of is air. I actually have had leaks detectable by that method with conventional flare fittings on my old lines, so I'd say they're at least on an equal footing.

The EVA tubing I received from Williams Brewing has a very strong plastic manufacturing smell to it.

Did you have the same experience with your tubing?

On the liquid side I'm not so concerned because I always clean my lines with alkaline brewery cleaner and saniclean rinse.

However on the gas side I typically don't do anything to clean.

Are you hooking these up to gas without cleaning them first?

Perhaps I just need to let my tubing air out for a few days and the smell will go away

 

[Robert65]

The EVA tubing I received from Williams Brewing has a very strong plastic manufacturing smell to it.

Did you have the same experience with your tubing?

On the liquid side I'm not so concerned because I always clean my lines with alkaline brewery cleaner and saniclean rinse.

However on the gas side I typically don't do anything to clean.

Are you hooking these up to gas without cleaning them first?

Perhaps I just need to let my tubing air out for a few days and the smell will go away

I recall there was a smell that concerned me when I first opened the plastic bag. But it dissipated quickly. Could have been from packaging and not even the tubing itself for all I know. I didn't clean the gas lines, but I did do a regular cleaning of the liquid lines before hooking up a keg. I'd say air it out and you're good.

 

[Rikk]

Not directly, but: According to Kegland it is rated for 100 psi at 50°C, which would imply that it is also rated for at least 50°C. Which (= 122°F) is a shade hotter than I run my BLC.

Thanks.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I received rolls of both 4mm ID and 5mm ID EVA line this afternoon and while there was a modest "plastic" smell upon opening one of the packages I just gave it another sniff test 8 hours later and I'm not picking up anything. I then opened the other package and it's a repeat of the first.

All that said, I'll note I've never picked up the "vinyl" character from solid PVC beer lines that some are sensitive to, so ymmv.

Otherwise...the bend radius on this stuff is fantastic! It's nothing like the Bev Seal Ultra 235 tubing - this is like 2"!

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

Don't forget this kind of tubing has the PET liner so any plastic you smell is likely the outer formulation that makes it supple and bendable.

 

[eric19312]

fwiw, I received rolls of both 4mm ID and 5mm ID EVA line this afternoon and while there was a modest "plastic" smell upon opening one of the packages I just gave it another sniff test 8 hours later and I'm not picking up anything. I then opened the other package and it's a repeat of the first.

All that said, I'll note I've never picked up the "vinyl" character from solid PVC beer lines that some are sensitive to, so ymmv.

Otherwise...the bend radius on this stuff is fantastic! It's nothing like the Bev Seal Ultra 235 tubing - this is like 2"!

Cheers!

Hey @day_tripper just curious…why did you go with 5mm for the gas lines? I redid my gas and beer lines with the 4mm and seems to work fine.

 

[day_trippr]

Strictly for ease of use with my existing, 1/4" barbed gas system, so I can avoid replacing all those QDs and manifolds with MFL versions. 5mm has to be easier to stretch over those barbs than 4mm...

Cheers!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Strictly for ease of use with my existing, 1/4" barbed gas system, so I can avoid replacing all those QDs and manifolds with MFL versions. 5mm has to be easier to stretch over those barbs than 4mm...

Cheers!

I have both in my system, which is all based on 1/4" barbs (4mm for beer to keep the tubing runs short, and 5mm for gas, because it's easier to fit and I don't want/need the resistance on the gas side).
Definitely easier to fit the 5mm on the 1/4", but 4mm is doable if you want the extra resistance to keep runs short.

 

[eric19312]

I have both in my system, which is all based on 1/4" barbs (4mm for beer to keep the tubing runs short, and 5mm for gas, because it's easier to fit and I don't want/need the resistance on the gas side).
Definitely easier to fit the 5mm on the 1/4", but 4mm is doable if you want the extra resistance to keep runs short.

Got it. I did not have any barbs when I did mine. All flare fittings which were compatible with the John guest stuff Bobby M sells.

 

[day_trippr]

Most of my current plumbing was from my first keezer - which goes back 11 years ago now.
I'm not even sure there were PTC fittings back then...

Cheers!

 

[Carolina_Matt]

I've been using Accuflex 235 since August, and I really like the quality of the beer compared to the cheap vinyl line. It's a pain dealing with the lack of flexibility, and the 16 foot length. So I bought one of the 39 foot pieces and installed 7 feet of it on one of my taps. It fit perfectly in my existing John Guest fittings.

It's amazing how much easier it is to work with, and my initial impression is very positive. It basically takes all of the good things about the Accuflex and all of the good things about the vinyl line, and puts them together in one inexpensive solution.

I'll give it a week or so to make sure this is the line length I want, and then I'll cut it up and install it on my other taps.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Yeah, I'm sold and find no reason to look to any other solution. This stuff (EVA Barrier) is the stuff!

 

[Rikk]

So far I’m very happy with Kegland EVA. It’s too soon to tell what repeated cleaning cycles will do the in interior but I love the flexibility. I have been using one Accuflex line since spring (6 months) and I like the that it imparts no flavor but it’s stiff as a board and having to use twice the length as Kegland EVA I may change that out sooner than later.

 

[day_trippr]

Agreed, this stuff should be on everyone's wish list.

I changed out all of my beer and gas lines - and I mean ALL of them - to the EVAbarrier tubing. That's a 6 tap keezer with low and high pressure external CO2 primaries plus a beer gas feed from another cylinder, through a 6 way manifold, all of the internal and external lines switched and all but the manifold outputs fitted with PTC connectors; and three full size fridges each with 4-way CO2 manifolds being fed by three primary regs on two cylinders.

In the end I used up all of the 39' of 4mm for the beer lines in the keezer, and two full rolls of the 5mm for all of the gas lines across all four units. And installed a poopyload of PTC fittings from John Guest, Duotight and DMfit.

Totally worth it. The first pour has no stale taint to it at all, and the beer line lengths are much more manageable. I'm running 6' on five faucets including my nitro faucet, and 9' for my high-carbed Saison (there's your 39 feet ) so only a turn or so looped atop the kegs after the flow meters. Also, the thinner OD (vs the 7/16" Bevlex 200) leaves more room in my air-cooled tower column for return air which can't hurt.

Now I just need to find someone who needs a crap load of 1/4" swivels and worm clamps. I must have around 100 of each...

Cheers!