Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier

[MikeCo]

It appears that the doutight tower shanks are now available at Williams. So now there's a john guest/ doutight option for towers.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Intertap-DuoTight-Tower-Shank-P4815.aspx

Yes, I'm very interested in these for my tower. I wish they just sold the tail pieces also. Trying to decide whether to buy these and use 4mm tubing or just get 5mm tubing and stretch it over the 1/4 inch barbs I currently have. I like the idea of push fittings only, but I don't want to spend $30 on new shanks the two I have are perfectly good.

I just noticed Williams has 10% off Duotight that ends today - tempting.

 

[brew703]

I currently use BevSeal Ultra and thinking about switching to the EVA Barrier tubing. Is the EVA Barrier less stiff then the Accuflex Ultra and easier to work with? I like the idea of only needing to use 5-6 feet of tubing vs 12-15 of the Bev Seal.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

Interesting thread. I replaced my standard vinyl lines with Bevseal Ultra about two months ago. I could have sworn that I looked into both of these options, and decided that Bevseal Ultra was the better based on what I read here. But now it seems like EVA is the better option. It does sound nice only needing a few feet of tubing, but it's too late to switch at this point.

Overall I'm happy with the quality of the Ultra. My beer tastes noticeably better than it did with the old tubing. There's a little bit of foam/sputtering when I first open the tap, even with a fan in the keezer, but at least it's drinkable once the foam dies down. With the old line, the first few ounces were oxidized so there was just too much waste. I put hooks around the collar of my keezer and I wrap the Ultra line around that, but it's definitely not the easiest line to work with.

With both of these options though, it's strange that most homebrew shops just sell the crappy beer line. It's basically the same price for a significantly better option, but most people don't know about it.

 

[Ki-ri-n]

Well now I don't feel so bad. I just did the same thing, switched to BS ULTRA under the same contentions.
The ultra does make a tight space tighter.
However, at 16', my faucets don't stay closed (with star san). Guess I need to shorten them?

Interesting thread. I replaced my standard vinyl lines with Bevseal Ultra about two months ago. I could have sworn that I looked into both of these options, and decided that Bevseal Ultra was the better based on what I read here. But now it seems like EVA is the better option. It does sound nice only needing a few feet of tubing, but it's too late to switch at this point.

Overall I'm happy with the quality of the Ultra. My beer tastes noticeably better than it did with the old tubing. There's a little bit of foam/sputtering when I first open the tap, even with a fan in the keezer, but at least it's drinkable once the foam dies down. With the old line, the first few ounces were oxidized so there was just too much waste. I put hooks around the collar of my keezer and I wrap the Ultra line around that, but it's definitely not the easiest line to work with.

With both of these options though, it's strange that most homebrew shops just sell the crappy beer line. It's basically the same price for a significantly better option, but most people don't know about it.

 

[Robert65]

With both of these options though, it's strange that most homebrew shops just sell the crappy beer line. It's basically the same price for a significantly better option, but most people don't know about it.

Actually the EVA barrier tubing is less than half the price per foot my LHBS charges for the crappy PVC stuff. But yeah, not many people know about it. I was enthusiastically telling my LHBS owner about my switch to EVA and Duotight, and he was looking at me like I was speaking ancient Sumerian or something. He also, like so many homebrewers, doesn't seem to grasp that keeping oxygen out of your beer is a good thing, so there's that to overcome before demand goes up.

 

[lump42]

Yes, I'm very interested in these for my tower. I wish they just sold the tail pieces also. Trying to decide whether to buy these and use 4mm tubing or just get 5mm tubing and stretch it over the 1/4 inch barbs I currently have. I like the idea of push fittings only, but I don't want to spend $30 on new shanks the two I have are perfectly good.

I just noticed Williams has 10% off Duotight that ends today - tempting.

They have an adapter that fits onto standard shanks.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DuoTight-8mm-To-Sankey-Thread-P4684.aspx

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Yes, I'm very interested in these for my tower. I wish they just sold the tail pieces also. Trying to decide whether to buy these and use 4mm tubing or just get 5mm tubing and stretch it over the 1/4 inch barbs I currently have. I like the idea of push fittings only, but I don't want to spend $30 on new shanks the two I have are perfectly good.

I just noticed Williams has 10% off Duotight that ends today - tempting.

So I just put the 4mm in my tower last night (standard Intertap elbow barbs). I know the description of the 4mm tubing says it won't fit on a 1/4" barb, but it will. That said, it was a LOT of work.

Here's how I did it and the best tool I found:

• Use hot water, but not boiling - boiling water really over-softened the tubing and it got mangled in the process of putting it on. It worked a lot better once the water cooled (maybe 160 degrees F).
• Dip about an inch of the tube in the water and the barb as well (the hot barb will go in better than a cold one, which will instantly cool the tubing).
• Pull the tubing out of the water and immediately use a nail set tool to spread the opening of the tubing. Push the tool in as far as you can go. Mine went in about 3/4" before hitting a ridge on the tool shaft. The nail set is key. I was using needle-nosed pliers and several other options, but the nail set was perfect because it fit in the opening and had a smooth, progressive taper to bigger than the 1/4" barb.
• Let the tubing cool with the nail set still in it (sets the shape).
• Pull the nail set out and immediately insert the hot barb, working the tube over it.

After some trial and error and wasted tubing, I found that worked pretty well. I wish the Duotight tower shank had come out like 2 weeks ago, but oh well. I will probably upgrade at some point, but now I am set up using my stock tower barbs and 4mm tubing, so there's no reason to change right now.

 

[eric19312]

Thanks for this thread. My kegerator is almost empty and good time to cleanup and get rid of all that PVC. Doing gas and liquid lines.

 

[whovous]

Are all of the following statements true?
1. The EVA is more flexible than the BevSeal.
2. The 4mm EVA allows a shorter line than the BevSeal.
3. The EVA and the BevSeal are both compatible with the same John Guest and/or DuoTight fittings.

I am waiting to receive the Intertap DuoTight shanks from Williams and it looks like it might make sense to switch to the EVA at the same time. And this before I ever managed to get the BevSeal installed.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'm building my keezer with the smaller diameter eva barrier, will report back with my impressions.

 

[Robert65]

Are all of the following statements true?
1. The EVA is more flexible than the BevSeal.
2. The 4mm EVA allows a shorter line than the BevSeal.
3. The EVA and the BevSeal are both compatible with the same John Guest and/or DuoTight fittings.

I am waiting to receive the Intertap DuoTight shanks from Williams and it looks like it might make sense to switch to the EVA at the same time. And this before I ever managed to get the BevSeal installed.

1 and 2, yes.

3, can't say if they use the exact same fittings, that would depend on if the OD is the same, and I don't know the size of the BevSeal. But same general type of fittings.

 

[MikeCo]

So I just put the 4mm in my tower last night (standard Intertap elbow barbs). I know the description of the 4mm tubing says it won't fit on a 1/4" barb, but it will. That said, it was a LOT of work.

Here's how I did it and the best tool I found:

• Use hot water, but not boiling - boiling water really over-softened the tubing and it got mangled in the process of putting it on. It worked a lot better once the water cooled (maybe 160 degrees F).
• Dip about an inch of the tube in the water and the barb as well (the hot barb will go in better than a cold one, which will instantly cool the tubing).
• Pull the tubing out of the water and immediately use a nail set tool to spread the opening of the tubing. Push the tool in as far as you can go. Mine went in about 3/4" before hitting a ridge on the tool shaft. The nail set is key. I was using needle-nosed pliers and several other options, but the nail set was perfect because it fit in the opening and had a smooth, progressive taper to bigger than the 1/4" barb.
• Let the tubing cool with the nail set still in it (sets the shape).
• Pull the nail set out and immediately insert the hot barb, working the tube over it.

After some trial and error and wasted tubing, I found that worked pretty well. I wish the Duotight tower shank had come out like 2 weeks ago, but oh well. I will probably upgrade at some point, but now I am set up using my stock tower barbs and 4mm tubing, so there's no reason to change right now.

Thanks for this! I gives me another option. I am really tempted to get the Duotight shanks, though.

 

[MikeCo]

They have an adapter that fits onto standard shanks.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DuoTight-8mm-To-Sankey-Thread-P4684.aspx

My shanks look like this. I don't think that will fit.

 

[MikeCo]

I ordered 4mm (5/32") EVABarrier tubing, Duotight fittings and shanks from Williams. Does anyone know the roughness value to use in the Mike Soltys calculator for determining line lengths?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I ordered 4mm (5/32") EVABarrier tubing, Duotights fittings and shanks from Williams. Does anyone know the roughness value to use in the Mike Soltys calculator for determining line lengths?

I think leave it at the default value works pretty well.

Last night I set mine up and the Soltys calulator said 3.56 feet. I cut to 4 feet and I got quite a slow pour. Since I have FLow control ball locks on and can restrict flow a little, I think tonight I am going to cut 4-6 inches off and see how my flow is then.

 

[whovous]

I think leave it at the default value works pretty well.

Last night I set mine up and the Soltys calulator said 3.56 feet. I cut to 4 feet and I got quite a slow pour. Since I have FLow control ball locks on and can restrict flow a little, I think tonight I am going to cut 4-6 inches off and see how my flow is then.

3.56 at what pressure?

 

[h22lude]

I've been using 5ft of the 4mm EVA at 11psi and love it.

John Guest and DuoTight are interchangeable. Any push connection will work as long as you get the right OD sizing. I use the ones from Fresh Water Systems.

Shank adapter
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-bspp-5-16-x-5-8-bspp

90° from shank to tubing
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-stem-elbow-connector-5-16-stem-x-5-16-tube

Tubing to disconnect
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-flare-5-16-x-1-4-flare

 

[Bobby_M]

As a general rule of thumb, I want my lines to be more restrictive than I can get away with. In a high volume bar or brewery, you don't want your staff spending cumulative seconds per pour because time is money. If a pint in your own man cave takes an extra 4 seconds, you'll survive it. Longer lines will be a little slower at lower carb levels and serving pressures but unless you want to swap lines for Belgians and Wheat beers that may be served at 16psi, it's better to keep all your lines capable of slightly higher serving pressures.

Since I have 39ft lengths to hack up, my initial test on my kegger was 39/5 = 7.9ft. At 40F and 12psi (my typical median carb level), I got a pint to pour in 16 seconds with a two finger head. Every shorter increment cut the pour time by about 1 second. (increment being 39/6, 39/7, 39/8 etc). The shortest I think I'd go is 4ft, 4inches. It's about a 12 second pour but I don't it would handle a Trippel at 15psi.

So yes you can rely on calculators to find the theoretical minimum lengths but there is a lot of leeway on how much longer you can go without any major detriment. If your situation absolutely required a run longer than 8ft, I'd go up to the 5mm ID tubing and run 12-14 feet of it.

Since this size tubing is new to my product offering, I'm still considering standardizing on a shorter piece.

 

[lump42]

My shanks look like this. I don't think that will fit.
View attachment 645660

No, with those, the entire shank would need to be replace, The tubing stretched over the barb, or and adapter made with vinyl tubing.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

3.56 at what pressure?

10 lb, I think (38 degrees)

 

[Robert65]

I think leave it at the default value works pretty well.

Last night I set mine up and the Soltys calulator said 3.56 feet. I cut to 4 feet and I got quite a slow pour. Since I have FLow control ball locks on and can restrict flow a little, I think tonight I am going to cut 4-6 inches off and see how my flow is then.

@Cavpilot2000, you've got the exact numbers I got. I also cut to 4 ft. Look forward to hearing how a few inches shorter works.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

@Cavpilot2000, you've got the exact numbers I got. I also cut to 4 ft. Look forward to hearing how a few inches shorter works.

With the floating dip tube, there is always going to be a variable with the height differential, but changing that on the formula results in minimal result, so I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[eric19312]

Wow this stuff is easy to use. Bought a roll of the tube and a bunch of push fittings from Bobby yesterday. Dang stuff hit my doorstep today and I hooked up a keg and gas line. 12 psi 40F got a perfect pour with 7’. I bumped the PSI to 14 and still no issues. Unbelievable how easy to work with these push fittings.

 

[Bobby_M]

Wow this stuff is easy to use. Bought a roll of the tube and a bunch of push fittings from Bobby yesterday. Dang stuff hit my doorstep today and I hooked up a keg and gas line. 12 psi 40F got a perfect pour with 7’. I bumped the PSI to 14 and still no issues. Unbelievable how easy to work with these push fittings.

Thanks. That's at least one independent confirmation that the world won't end while waiting for a pour through 7 feet.

With that said, I just standardized on 5.5' increments.

 

[Robert65]

^^^^
Better to wait for a slow pour than wait, repeatedly, for a glass of foam to settle until your pint is full!

 

[h22lude]

Thanks. That's at least one independent confirmation that the world won't end while waiting for a pour through 7 feet.

With that said, I just standardized on 5.5' increments.

I was getting about 3.5' from calculations. I started at 5' and was going to cut shorter from there. I found 5' to be perfect for 11psi at 38°F. I was getting just about 9 seconds per pour. So I just kept it

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I'm not sure why - maybe it is because I am using flow control ball lock QDs (wide open though), but I am at 40 degrees and cranked up to 14 PSI, 3', 8" of tubing and slow as hell pours - like 15 seconds.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm not sure why - maybe it is because I am using flow control ball lock QDs (wide open though), but I am at 40 degrees and cranked up to 14 PSI, 3', 8" of tubing and slow as hell pours - like 15 seconds.

Must have something to do with the flow control. Maybe some inherent restriction even wide open.

 

[Robert65]

Pour is just a bit slower than the calculator suggested. Haven't actually timed it other than by Mississippi's. But I like the pour. I suppose there are lots of variables not taken into account like QD and faucet types, and possibly even elevation -- not just keg to tap, but sea level to taproom -- that will give us slightly different results. (I never got the balance this close with the old stuff, it just never performed well.) BTW if I get to it this weekend I'm going to replace an Intertap with a Perlick. Curious to see how that affects it.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Must have something to do with the flow control. Maybe some inherent restriction even wide open.

That's kinda what I'm thinking.
Which is not bad - I may be able to run really short lines like 3 ft.