Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier

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whovous said:
Are all of the following statements true?
1. The EVA is more flexible than the BevSeal.
2. The 4mm EVA allows a shorter line than the BevSeal.
3. The EVA and the BevSeal are both compatible with the same John Guest and/or DuoTight fittings.

I am waiting to receive the Intertap DuoTight shanks from Williams and it looks like it might make sense to switch to the EVA at the same time. And this before I ever managed to get the BevSeal installed.
Click to expand...

1 and 2, yes.

3, can't say if they use the exact same fittings, that would depend on if the OD is the same, and I don't know the size of the BevSeal. But same general type of fittings.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
So I just put the 4mm in my tower last night (standard Intertap elbow barbs). I know the description of the 4mm tubing says it won't fit on a 1/4" barb, but it will. That said, it was a LOT of work.

Here's how I did it and the best tool I found:
  • Use hot water, but not boiling - boiling water really over-softened the tubing and it got mangled in the process of putting it on. It worked a lot better once the water cooled (maybe 160 degrees F).
  • Dip about an inch of the tube in the water and the barb as well (the hot barb will go in better than a cold one, which will instantly cool the tubing).
  • Pull the tubing out of the water and immediately use a nail set tool to spread the opening of the tubing. Push the tool in as far as you can go. Mine went in about 3/4" before hitting a ridge on the tool shaft. The nail set is key. I was using needle-nosed pliers and several other options, but the nail set was perfect because it fit in the opening and had a smooth, progressive taper to bigger than the 1/4" barb.
  • Let the tubing cool with the nail set still in it (sets the shape).
  • Pull the nail set out and immediately insert the hot barb, working the tube over it.
After some trial and error and wasted tubing, I found that worked pretty well. I wish the Duotight tower shank had come out like 2 weeks ago, but oh well. I will probably upgrade at some point, but now I am set up using my stock tower barbs and 4mm tubing, so there's no reason to change right now.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this! I gives me another option. I am really tempted to get the Duotight shanks, though.
 
lump42 said:
They have an adapter that fits onto standard shanks.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DuoTight-8mm-To-Sankey-Thread-P4684.aspx
Click to expand...

My shanks look like this. I don't think that will fit.
upload_2019-9-25_15-16-19.png
 

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I ordered 4mm (5/32") EVABarrier tubing, Duotight fittings and shanks from Williams. Does anyone know the roughness value to use in the Mike Soltys calculator for determining line lengths?
 
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MikeCo said:
I ordered 4mm (5/32") EVABarrier tubing, Duotights fittings and shanks from Williams. Does anyone know the roughness value to use in the Mike Soltys calculator for determining line lengths?
Click to expand...
I think leave it at the default value works pretty well.

Last night I set mine up and the Soltys calulator said 3.56 feet. I cut to 4 feet and I got quite a slow pour. Since I have FLow control ball locks on and can restrict flow a little, I think tonight I am going to cut 4-6 inches off and see how my flow is then.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
I think leave it at the default value works pretty well.

Last night I set mine up and the Soltys calulator said 3.56 feet. I cut to 4 feet and I got quite a slow pour. Since I have FLow control ball locks on and can restrict flow a little, I think tonight I am going to cut 4-6 inches off and see how my flow is then.
Click to expand...
3.56 at what pressure?
 
I've been using 5ft of the 4mm EVA at 11psi and love it.

John Guest and DuoTight are interchangeable. Any push connection will work as long as you get the right OD sizing. I use the ones from Fresh Water Systems.

Shank adapter
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-bspp-5-16-x-5-8-bspp

90° from shank to tubing
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-stem-elbow-connector-5-16-stem-x-5-16-tube

Tubing to disconnect
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-flare-5-16-x-1-4-flare
 
As a general rule of thumb, I want my lines to be more restrictive than I can get away with. In a high volume bar or brewery, you don't want your staff spending cumulative seconds per pour because time is money. If a pint in your own man cave takes an extra 4 seconds, you'll survive it. Longer lines will be a little slower at lower carb levels and serving pressures but unless you want to swap lines for Belgians and Wheat beers that may be served at 16psi, it's better to keep all your lines capable of slightly higher serving pressures.

Since I have 39ft lengths to hack up, my initial test on my kegger was 39/5 = 7.9ft. At 40F and 12psi (my typical median carb level), I got a pint to pour in 16 seconds with a two finger head. Every shorter increment cut the pour time by about 1 second. (increment being 39/6, 39/7, 39/8 etc). The shortest I think I'd go is 4ft, 4inches. It's about a 12 second pour but I don't it would handle a Trippel at 15psi.

So yes you can rely on calculators to find the theoretical minimum lengths but there is a lot of leeway on how much longer you can go without any major detriment. If your situation absolutely required a run longer than 8ft, I'd go up to the 5mm ID tubing and run 12-14 feet of it.

Since this size tubing is new to my product offering, I'm still considering standardizing on a shorter piece.
 
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Cavpilot2000 said:
I think leave it at the default value works pretty well.

Last night I set mine up and the Soltys calulator said 3.56 feet. I cut to 4 feet and I got quite a slow pour. Since I have FLow control ball locks on and can restrict flow a little, I think tonight I am going to cut 4-6 inches off and see how my flow is then.
Click to expand...
@Cavpilot2000, you've got the exact numbers I got. I also cut to 4 ft. Look forward to hearing how a few inches shorter works.
 
Robert65 said:
@Cavpilot2000, you've got the exact numbers I got. I also cut to 4 ft. Look forward to hearing how a few inches shorter works.
Click to expand...
With the floating dip tube, there is always going to be a variable with the height differential, but changing that on the formula results in minimal result, so I'm not going to worry about it.
 
Wow this stuff is easy to use. Bought a roll of the tube and a bunch of push fittings from Bobby yesterday. Dang stuff hit my doorstep today and I hooked up a keg and gas line. 12 psi 40F got a perfect pour with 7’. I bumped the PSI to 14 and still no issues. Unbelievable how easy to work with these push fittings.
 
eric19312 said:
Wow this stuff is easy to use. Bought a roll of the tube and a bunch of push fittings from Bobby yesterday. Dang stuff hit my doorstep today and I hooked up a keg and gas line. 12 psi 40F got a perfect pour with 7’. I bumped the PSI to 14 and still no issues. Unbelievable how easy to work with these push fittings.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That's at least one independent confirmation that the world won't end while waiting for a pour through 7 feet.

With that said, I just standardized on 5.5' increments.
 
Bobby_M said:
Thanks. That's at least one independent confirmation that the world won't end while waiting for a pour through 7 feet.

With that said, I just standardized on 5.5' increments.
Click to expand...

I was getting about 3.5' from calculations. I started at 5' and was going to cut shorter from there. I found 5' to be perfect for 11psi at 38°F. I was getting just about 9 seconds per pour. So I just kept it
 
I'm not sure why - maybe it is because I am using flow control ball lock QDs (wide open though), but I am at 40 degrees and cranked up to 14 PSI, 3', 8" of tubing and slow as hell pours - like 15 seconds.
 
Pour is just a bit slower than the calculator suggested. Haven't actually timed it other than by Mississippi's. But I like the pour. I suppose there are lots of variables not taken into account like QD and faucet types, and possibly even elevation -- not just keg to tap, but sea level to taproom -- that will give us slightly different results. (I never got the balance this close with the old stuff, it just never performed well.) BTW if I get to it this weekend I'm going to replace an Intertap with a Perlick. Curious to see how that affects it.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
That's kinda what I'm thinking.
Which is not bad - I may be able to run really short lines like 3 ft.
Click to expand...

I’ve wondered the same about my Perlick flow control faucets. I’ve been running 11’ of bevseal ultra barrier with those faucets, usually at 12psi and 40F for the past year and pours on the slow side even wide open. Imagine I could probably cut at least 3 feet off without causing any issues, but it was such a b#%ch to get on the shank in my tower that I haven’t wanted to mess with it.
 
cheesebach said:
I’ve wondered the same about my Perlick flow control faucets. I’ve been running 11’ of bevseal ultra barrier with those faucets, usually at 12psi and 40F for the past year and pours on the slow side even wide open. Imagine I could probably cut at least 3 feet off without causing any issues, but it was such a b#%ch to get on the shank in my tower that I haven’t wanted to mess with it.
Click to expand...
WHy not cut it from the Ball Lock end?
 
I received my 4mm EVABarrier tubing, Duotight shanks and fittings. My first issue was that the shank bodies were just a little big (about .005 inch) to fit into the tower holes. So I decided to connect a 6.5 foot length of tubing to one of the existing shanks just to see how it works, and enlarge the holes at a later time. I was able to stretch the tubing over the 1/4 barb without much trouble by immersing it and the shank barb in boiling water for a few seconds, putting the end of a needle nose pliers in the tubing to flare it slightly, and then pushing it on the barb.

I attached the Duotight flare fitting to a ball lock connector and pushed the other end of the tubing in until I felt it stop. When I attached the connector to the keg it immediately started leaking foam. I had only pushed pushed the tubing half way into the fitting. After pushing harder to get it fully connected, the leak stopped.

So all was connected and working, but now I find the pour is much faster and foamier than the 10 feet of 3/16 PVC line I had been using, which doesn't make sense based on others' results and the calculated values. I double checked the tubing to make sure I didn't accidentally get the 5mm size. I run at 15 psi, 38F.

This weekend I hope to drill out the tower holes with a step bit, install the Duotight shanks, and run new line to the other keg and faucet to see how that compares. If it also runs fast at 6.5 feet, I'm likely to go to 10 foot lengths and scrap the two 6.5 foot lengths I already cut. It should be a quick easy process with all the fittings installed.
 
h22lude said:
Did you let all the new connections and tubing drop to serving temp?
Click to expand...
Yes, I thought it might be from the beer and keg warming as I worked on it with the kegerator door open at times, but the pour was the same 24 hours later. That keg is close to empty, which may have some effect. But it just seemed like the beer came out faster than it did with the other line.
 
Robert65 said:
Pour is just a bit slower than the calculator suggested.... I suppose there are lots of variables not taken into account like QD and faucet types.... BTW if I get to it this weekend I'm going to replace an Intertap with a Perlick. Curious to see how that affects it.
Click to expand...

So I did put a Perlick in place of an Intertap, and the pour is a hair faster. Not foamier, maybe even smoother, just about exactly where I want it and where the calculations put it. So this seems to indicate that different faucets provide sufficiently different restriction to affect the whole equation, which isn't surprising. I figured the little Perlick ball in an otherwise open space would provide less restriction than the long shuttle mechanism, but wasn't sure it would be as significant as it seems to be. So quite probably, @Cavpilot2000, the extra bits in your FC QDs are a factor.
 
Robert65 said:
I figured the little Perlick ball in an otherwise open space would provide less restriction than the long shuttle mechanism, but wasn't sure it would be as significant as it seems to be. So quite probably, @Cavpilot2000, the extra bits in your FC QDs are a factor.
Click to expand...
Quite possibly, as I am running Intertaps (non-FC with spring) too.
 
Cavpilot2000 said:
Quite possibly, as I am running Intertaps (non-FC with spring) too.
Click to expand...
In your case you'd seem to have an easy solution, which is to cut the line as short as is practical and let the FC QD do the balancing, calculations unnecessary. Pretty handy. BTW I had the spring in that Intertap too, hadn't even considered whether it came into play.
 
I enlarged the holes in my tower enough with a Dremel tool to fit the Duotight shanks in and installed them. The shanks with the fittings and tubing fit pretty easily into my tower; I was worried it would be hard to fit it all in. Now both taps are running 6.5 feet of 4mm EVABarrier. I timed my pour and it was 10 seconds for a pint with a proper amount of foam. FWIW, the Mike Soltys calculator says I only need 5.05 feet of 4mm tubing for a 10 second pour for the my parameters. I have to say I'm satisfied with the tubing, shanks and push fittings. I don't taste any plastic flavors, and changing lines will be very easy in the future.
 
Thanks for that report, I've been following the data as it comes in wrt this line and I'd say 6.5' is at the longer end of the range with the 4mm line. What pressure are you running?

6.5' is about the minimum for my 6 keg keezer and a ten second pour is actually my target, so that's somewhat reassuring. I've been keeping an eye on users' experiences hoping I don't have to go to the 5mm ID (which is actually larger then 3/16")...

Cheers!
 
day_trippr said:
Thanks for that report, I've been following the data as it comes in wrt this line and I'd say 6.5' is at the longer end of the range with the 4mm line. What pressure are you running?

6.5' is about the minimum for my 6 keg keezer and a ten second pour is actually my target, so that's somewhat reassuring. I've been keeping an eye on users' experiences hoping I don't have to go to the 5mm ID (which is actually larger then 3/16")...

Cheers!
Click to expand...
I'm running 14 psi.
 
Does anyone have an official document on what temperature these can withstand during a BLC cleaning?
 
Rikk said:
Does anyone have an official document on what temperature these can withstand during a BLC cleaning?
Click to expand...
Not directly, but: According to Kegland it is rated for 100 psi at 50°C, which would imply that it is also rated for at least 50°C. Which (= 122°F) is a shade hotter than I run my BLC.
 
I picked up some of the EVA and planning to test it on the gas side in the near future.

The plastic mfl connectors that would attach to my distributor manifolds has me a little paranoid about potential leaks. Doesn't seem like it would be as durable over time as the stainless steel mfl ones I am currently using on normal gas tubing

I usually shut the home brewery down for a few months in winter since I brew outside. As soon as I kick my last keg I'm going to hook these up and test em at 20 PSI for a few weeks and see how they do
 
I haven't seen any evidence of leaks in those connectors. My test being I can stick my head down in the keezer and all I get a whiff of is air. I actually have had leaks detectable by that method with conventional flare fittings on my old lines, so I'd say they're at least on an equal footing.
 
Robert65 said:
I haven't seen any evidence of leaks in those connectors. My test being I can stick my head down in the keezer and all I get a whiff of is air. I actually have had leaks detectable by that method with conventional flare fittings on my old lines, so I'd say they're at least on an equal footing.
Click to expand...

The EVA tubing I received from Williams Brewing has a very strong plastic manufacturing smell to it.

Did you have the same experience with your tubing?

On the liquid side I'm not so concerned because I always clean my lines with alkaline brewery cleaner and saniclean rinse.

However on the gas side I typically don't do anything to clean.

Are you hooking these up to gas without cleaning them first?

Perhaps I just need to let my tubing air out for a few days and the smell will go away
 
Unicorn_Platypus said:
The EVA tubing I received from Williams Brewing has a very strong plastic manufacturing smell to it.

Did you have the same experience with your tubing?

On the liquid side I'm not so concerned because I always clean my lines with alkaline brewery cleaner and saniclean rinse.

However on the gas side I typically don't do anything to clean.

Are you hooking these up to gas without cleaning them first?

Perhaps I just need to let my tubing air out for a few days and the smell will go away
Click to expand...
I recall there was a smell that concerned me when I first opened the plastic bag. But it dissipated quickly. Could have been from packaging and not even the tubing itself for all I know. I didn't clean the gas lines, but I did do a regular cleaning of the liquid lines before hooking up a keg. I'd say air it out and you're good.
 
Robert65 said:
Not directly, but: According to Kegland it is rated for 100 psi at 50°C, which would imply that it is also rated for at least 50°C. Which (= 122°F) is a shade hotter than I run my BLC.
Click to expand...

Thanks.
 
fwiw, I received rolls of both 4mm ID and 5mm ID EVA line this afternoon and while there was a modest "plastic" smell upon opening one of the packages I just gave it another sniff test 8 hours later and I'm not picking up anything. I then opened the other package and it's a repeat of the first.

All that said, I'll note I've never picked up the "vinyl" character from solid PVC beer lines that some are sensitive to, so ymmv.

Otherwise...the bend radius on this stuff is fantastic! It's nothing like the Bev Seal Ultra 235 tubing - this is like 2"!

Cheers!
 

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