Accuflex Ultra 235 vs Kegland EVA barrier

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lump42

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Does anyone have any comparison between Accuflex ultra 235 and Kegland EVA barrier lines? The description of these are pretty similar. If I recall, the sizing might be different. I'm looking to finally build out my keeper and move away from my picnic taps.
 

day_trippr

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This is the very first time I've ever seen this line mentioned on HBT.

It sounds good, but I get bothered by proprietary plastics that have no readily available data to support various claims (looking at you, EJ Beverage). Otherwise, one thing I noticed is the ID: at 5/32" ID the optimal line length for ~11 psi pressure (in the 4' range) might actually be too short to make it from keg to shank! I wonder if the manufacturer has larger bore lines...

Cheers!
 
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lump42

lump42

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That's a good point about proprietary plastics..hmm

EVA barrier has two sizes, 4mm (5/32") and 5mm (13/64"). Larger diameter might be used for longer runs.
 

Keith81

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The EVA line is what comes with the Kegland kegerators from MoreBeer. Mine came with about 5.5' per line of the 4 mm for the beer line and the 5 mm for gas lines. I get good pours with 12 psi @ 38 F. If there is oxygen permeation through the line I can't tell, a keg usually lasts about 6-8 weeks for me. I do not recommend the 4 mm lines if you have to fit them on a barb though. Took me about an hour of cursing per barb to fit it over the 1/4" barbs on the shanks due to the smaller ID and thick walls. The 5 mm was much easier to work with.
 

IslandLizard

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I do not recommend the 4 mm lines if you have to fit them on a barb though. Took me about an hour of cursing per barb to fit it over the 1/4" barbs on the shanks due to the smaller ID and thick walls. The 5 mm was much easier to work with.
Isn't that line, like the Bev-Seal Ultra 235, meant to be used with John Guest push-fit adapters? The Bev-Seal 235 line is 0.2" (5.08 mm) ID, 5/16" OD. It's almost impossible to stretch that over 1/4" barb, partially due to the PET (inner) liner that really doesn't want to stretch. I'm surprised you could stretch 4mm ID line over a 1/4" (6.25 mm) barb...

What is the OD on the 5 mm ID EVA line?
 

Keith81

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The OD is 8 mm for both the 4 mm and 5 mm ID. The shanks have a 90 barb on that kegerator also at the time I hadn't heard about John Guest fittings and MoreBeer hadn't started carrying the Duotight fittings yet so I also ended up using 1/4" MFL fittings on the keg end also, it was a real pain. I definitely recommend the push on fittings whenever possible.
 

IslandLizard

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The OD is 8 mm for both the 4 mm and 5 mm ID. The shanks have a 90 barb on that kegerator also at the time I hadn't heard about John Guest fittings and MoreBeer hadn't started carrying the Duotight fittings yet so I also ended up using 1/4" MFL fittings on the keg end also, it was a real pain. I definitely recommend the push on fittings whenever possible.
Sorry I missed the essential kegerator/tower setup before. There is no direct connector/adapter for those type of lines to 90° barbed shanks, that would really help. If it were me I'd experiment with a really short piece of (vinyl) hose, just enough that clamps well over the barb and fits inside a push-fit adapter. Then continue with 235 line from there on.

I have five 19' 235 lines in my upright keezer and sometime ago was looking at using narrower lines to reduce line length to half or less. But pouring time will then go up at the same time, so there is that. Tygon seemed like a good alternative, not sure how it fares with beer though. Plus the line needs to fit inside the push-fits and stay there.
 

day_trippr

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Duotight. And @IslandLizard appears correct, there's no 90° solution for the shank end of the line.
What is the minimum bend radius for this tubing?

Cheers!
 

Keith81

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I no longer have mine coiled but when I did the coil fit within the rubber handles of my corny kegs, about 7" diameter. You may be able to go a little smaller if necessary.
 
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lump42

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Duotight. And @IslandLizard appears correct, there's no 90° solution for the shank end of the line.
What is the minimum bend radius for this tubing?

Cheers!
Just looking at the fittings on Williams and noticed a 8mm to 6.5mm adapter. In the product description, it mentions the adapter will work with future products like a kegland tower shank and their pluto gun. Might be an option even if people have the Ultra 235.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Duotight-65mm-to-8mm-Reducer-P4756.aspx

Edit: Found the tower shank on their website. It's just not available in the states yet. https://www.kegland.com.au/intertap-duotight-compatible-ss-short-shank.html
 

Keith81

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I just looked at the current barbed tower shank on MoreBeer and someone asked if they were Duotight compatible. The response was no but the Duotight compatible shanks will be in stock soon. The question is dated July 25, 2019 so hopefully "soon" actually means soon.
 

h22lude

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Duotight. And @IslandLizard appears correct, there's no 90° solution for the shank end of the line.
What is the minimum bend radius for this tubing?

Cheers!
I know this thread is a month old. Was searching for EVABarrier and saw this post. I have the Bevseal tubing and like it besides the stiffness and length needed. I just bought EVABarrier for my new keezer. Will be using it this weekend.

Anyway, to make a 90° bend from the shank you would use the shank push connect with this 90° elbow
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-bspp-5-16-x-5-8-bspp
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-stem-elbow-connector-5-16-stem-x-5-16-tube
 

MikeCo

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I know this thread is a month old. Was searching for EVABarrier and saw this post. I have the Bevseal tubing and like it besides the stiffness and length needed. I just bought EVABarrier for my new keezer. Will be using it this weekend.

Anyway, to make a 90° bend from the shank you would use the shank push connect with this 90° elbow
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-female-adapter-bspp-5-16-x-5-8-bspp
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-stem-elbow-connector-5-16-stem-x-5-16-tube
I'm also considering EVABarrier tubing and fittings. Are you using the 4mm or 5mm ID tubing? Would like to know how it works out for you.
 

Robert65

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I just switched everything (gas and liquid) to the 4mm ID EVA barrier tubing and it's working great. Very flexible, and offers a lot of restriction, so very short runs on the beer line. A mere fraction of the length even of old fashioned 3/16 in vinyl, let alone Bev Seal.
 

Robert65

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I was using all Bevlex vinyl. I just tapped my Fest Friday night, first batch on the new lines. For scientific purposes, I just had to pour one, and it tastes as fresh as the last one Friday without dumping the first few ounces like I used to. Not a lot of experience yet, obviously. What I do know is I definitely used to get very detectable oxidation with the vinyl even over a short time, and since I've progressively moved to low oxygen brewing this was a logical step. Should be no chance of oxygen diffusing in anywhere.
 

h22lude

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I'm also considering EVABarrier tubing and fittings. Are you using the 4mm or 5mm ID tubing? Would like to know how it works out for you.
I just used the new lines yesterday. I have the 4mm. To determine line length I use length = (pressure - (height x .5) -1) / resistance. Using 11psi, I get almost 5ft of line. This was perfect. Pouring into a pint glass, I was getting between 8 and 9 seconds. I didn't have any issues with Bevseal line itself. What I didn't like was not knowing the resistance. Line length was really just a guess. I saw anywhere from 50% to 100% more than vinyl. I don't feel like experimenting with line length. I want to get a really good calculation and make very small adjustments if needed.

The EVA line is extremely easy to work with. It is really the best of both worlds. It is almost as flexible as vinyl at room temp and uses push connectors like Bevseal. It is super cheap too. I think I paid $14 for 39ft. That will just cover my 8 taps with no leftover. Can't beat that.

Bevseal is a good line but I'd recommend EVA over Bevseal.
 

Bobby_M

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I was demoing the EVA on my kegerator for a while and just jumped our bev line product over to it. The 4mm core doesn't seem like a big jump but I was able to reduce my 12ft Bevseal length down to 7ft on the EVA. Since it only comes 39ft to a roll, I decided to split that up to 7.8ft lengths to avoid waste and it's close enough to 7ft to call it good.
 

day_trippr

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Hey Bobby, did you do empirical testing wrt pour quality/flow rate to come up with the 7.something feet?
Also are you carrying the most useful PTC fittings like you do for the Ultra 235?

I have to say after doing some research on EVOH (the "barrier" material) - and being about to recondition my five year old keezer interior - I'm very interested in this EVA tubing. But that ID has me wondering if it'd work ok.

4mm = 0.1575 inches. Doesn't seem like much of a change from the typical 3/16" (.1875") ID but using Mike Solty's calculator 4mm at 12 psi with the 3 foot lift for my towered keezer results in just over 4 feet of line for a 10 second pour. 4 feet is at least a couple of feet too short to get from my further keg to its faucet, but 7 feet might work (I'll have to check it)...

Cheers!
 

Robert65

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@day_trippr,

They also make a 5mm ID EVA barrier tubing with the same 8mm OD to use the same fittings. I haven't plugged that into the calculator, but maybe that (also seemingly small) difference is enough to get you the length you need? For items Bobby might not have, the full line of tubing and Duotight fittings are being sold in the US by William's. The latest addition is a push fit tower shank. (MoreBeer has a fairly extensive selection too I believe.)

Cheers!
 

day_trippr

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Thanks for the 5mm ID heads up - would you believe that 1 millimeter brings my configuration to 12 feet? :D
So that'd be eminently doable, but if Bobby likes his pours with 7.8 feet of 4mm I'd lean that direction if I can make that fit with my flow meters and such.

What's the bend radius for this stuff - and is there a 90° PTC solution to the back of a t-tower shank for this tubing? It takes a shank fitting plus a 90° insert in the Ultra 235 world using JG fittings, are there similar parts for the Duotight?

Cheers!
 

day_trippr

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I don't want to replace my six faucet shanks. I'd be looking for a 5/8" BSP fitting to thread onto the standard 7/8"-14 shank threads (sounds whack but that's how that rolls) then get from there to the tubing OD.

But that tight bend radius would obviate the need for the 90° fitting - my t-box has enough space to make that work - so that's another win over Ultra 235 for my configuration...

Cheers!
 

Robert65

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I don't want to replace my six faucet shanks. I'd be looking for a 5/8" BSP fitting to thread onto the standard 7/8"-14 shank threads (sounds whack but that's how that rolls) then get from there to the tubing OD.

But that tight bend radius would obviate the need for the 90° fitting - my t-box has enough space to make that work - so that's another win over Ultra 235 for my configuration...

Cheers!
Well then there's this if you are just replacing the tail piece and nut on a standard shank:

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DuoTight-8mm-To-Sankey-Thread-P4684.aspx

And here is a quick demo of how tight a 90° you could get with it, don't know how much room you have in that tower.
20190924_205656.jpg
 

Robert65

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Notice the hook in that pic next to the CO2 bottle. Used to have lots of coiled up vinyl tubing hung on it. No such mess in the keezer with EVA!
 

day_trippr

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Yeah, there you go - that's the shank end fitting I'd be looking for given the bend radius.
Is that a JG or a Duotight?

Then there are the flow meter ends, which are 3/8" BSP. And finally the 1/4" MFL threads on the QDs. I have found Duotight fittings for the latter, but so far not the 3/8" BSP female...

Cheers!
 

Robert65

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That's Duotight. I've gotten all my "newfangled" stuff from William's. Haven't had to look elsewhere for what I needed so I don't really know what else might be available.

Prost!
 

MikeCo

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It appears that the doutight tower shanks are now available at Williams. So now there's a john guest/ doutight option for towers.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Intertap-DuoTight-Tower-Shank-P4815.aspx
Yes, I'm very interested in these for my tower. I wish they just sold the tail pieces also. Trying to decide whether to buy these and use 4mm tubing or just get 5mm tubing and stretch it over the 1/4 inch barbs I currently have. I like the idea of push fittings only, but I don't want to spend $30 on new shanks the two I have are perfectly good.

I just noticed Williams has 10% off Duotight that ends today - tempting.
 

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I currently use BevSeal Ultra and thinking about switching to the EVA Barrier tubing. Is the EVA Barrier less stiff then the Accuflex Ultra and easier to work with? I like the idea of only needing to use 5-6 feet of tubing vs 12-15 of the Bev Seal.
 

Carolina_Matt

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Interesting thread. I replaced my standard vinyl lines with Bevseal Ultra about two months ago. I could have sworn that I looked into both of these options, and decided that Bevseal Ultra was the better based on what I read here. But now it seems like EVA is the better option. It does sound nice only needing a few feet of tubing, but it's too late to switch at this point.

Overall I'm happy with the quality of the Ultra. My beer tastes noticeably better than it did with the old tubing. There's a little bit of foam/sputtering when I first open the tap, even with a fan in the keezer, but at least it's drinkable once the foam dies down. With the old line, the first few ounces were oxidized so there was just too much waste. I put hooks around the collar of my keezer and I wrap the Ultra line around that, but it's definitely not the easiest line to work with.

With both of these options though, it's strange that most homebrew shops just sell the crappy beer line. It's basically the same price for a significantly better option, but most people don't know about it.
 

Ki-ri-n

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Well now I don't feel so bad. I just did the same thing, switched to BS ULTRA under the same contentions.
The ultra does make a tight space tighter.
However, at 16', my faucets don't stay closed (with star san). Guess I need to shorten them?
Interesting thread. I replaced my standard vinyl lines with Bevseal Ultra about two months ago. I could have sworn that I looked into both of these options, and decided that Bevseal Ultra was the better based on what I read here. But now it seems like EVA is the better option. It does sound nice only needing a few feet of tubing, but it's too late to switch at this point.

Overall I'm happy with the quality of the Ultra. My beer tastes noticeably better than it did with the old tubing. There's a little bit of foam/sputtering when I first open the tap, even with a fan in the keezer, but at least it's drinkable once the foam dies down. With the old line, the first few ounces were oxidized so there was just too much waste. I put hooks around the collar of my keezer and I wrap the Ultra line around that, but it's definitely not the easiest line to work with.

With both of these options though, it's strange that most homebrew shops just sell the crappy beer line. It's basically the same price for a significantly better option, but most people don't know about it.
 

Robert65

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With both of these options though, it's strange that most homebrew shops just sell the crappy beer line. It's basically the same price for a significantly better option, but most people don't know about it.
Actually the EVA barrier tubing is less than half the price per foot my LHBS charges for the crappy PVC stuff. But yeah, not many people know about it. I was enthusiastically telling my LHBS owner about my switch to EVA and Duotight, and he was looking at me like I was speaking ancient Sumerian or something. He also, like so many homebrewers, doesn't seem to grasp that keeping oxygen out of your beer is a good thing, so there's that to overcome before demand goes up.
 
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lump42

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Yes, I'm very interested in these for my tower. I wish they just sold the tail pieces also. Trying to decide whether to buy these and use 4mm tubing or just get 5mm tubing and stretch it over the 1/4 inch barbs I currently have. I like the idea of push fittings only, but I don't want to spend $30 on new shanks the two I have are perfectly good.

I just noticed Williams has 10% off Duotight that ends today - tempting.
They have an adapter that fits onto standard shanks.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/DuoTight-8mm-To-Sankey-Thread-P4684.aspx
 

Cavpilot2000

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Yes, I'm very interested in these for my tower. I wish they just sold the tail pieces also. Trying to decide whether to buy these and use 4mm tubing or just get 5mm tubing and stretch it over the 1/4 inch barbs I currently have. I like the idea of push fittings only, but I don't want to spend $30 on new shanks the two I have are perfectly good.

I just noticed Williams has 10% off Duotight that ends today - tempting.
So I just put the 4mm in my tower last night (standard Intertap elbow barbs). I know the description of the 4mm tubing says it won't fit on a 1/4" barb, but it will. That said, it was a LOT of work.

Here's how I did it and the best tool I found:
  • Use hot water, but not boiling - boiling water really over-softened the tubing and it got mangled in the process of putting it on. It worked a lot better once the water cooled (maybe 160 degrees F).
  • Dip about an inch of the tube in the water and the barb as well (the hot barb will go in better than a cold one, which will instantly cool the tubing).
  • Pull the tubing out of the water and immediately use a nail set tool to spread the opening of the tubing. Push the tool in as far as you can go. Mine went in about 3/4" before hitting a ridge on the tool shaft. The nail set is key. I was using needle-nosed pliers and several other options, but the nail set was perfect because it fit in the opening and had a smooth, progressive taper to bigger than the 1/4" barb.
  • Let the tubing cool with the nail set still in it (sets the shape).
  • Pull the nail set out and immediately insert the hot barb, working the tube over it.
After some trial and error and wasted tubing, I found that worked pretty well. I wish the Duotight tower shank had come out like 2 weeks ago, but oh well. I will probably upgrade at some point, but now I am set up using my stock tower barbs and 4mm tubing, so there's no reason to change right now.
 

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Thanks for this thread. My kegerator is almost empty and good time to cleanup and get rid of all that PVC. Doing gas and liquid lines.
 

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Are all of the following statements true?
1. The EVA is more flexible than the BevSeal.
2. The 4mm EVA allows a shorter line than the BevSeal.
3. The EVA and the BevSeal are both compatible with the same John Guest and/or DuoTight fittings.

I am waiting to receive the Intertap DuoTight shanks from Williams and it looks like it might make sense to switch to the EVA at the same time. And this before I ever managed to get the BevSeal installed.
 
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