$50 Dedicated HERMS

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poptarts said:
running on 120, that 240v is going to be a equivlient to a 250w element, also known as pointless. So defiantly the first 120 one over the other one.
Click to expand...

Your not understanding at all, I was never talking about running any of these elements at any other voltage than what they are designed for,
the first link is a 120v rated element rated at 1000w output....

The second link is a 240v rated element also rated at 1000w output...

They are the same size and length... the are just wired differently internally to produce the same heat with different voltages. So someone limited to 120v would want to select the first choice and someone running 240v would choose the second.... in the earlier comments it was implied that an effective rims tube couldnt be made with 120v vs 220 and I was simply stating that it doesnt matter if you have 120v or 220... just select the appropriate element prior to building... the only reson people run the larger 220v elements at 120v is because they provide too much heat for a rims application and they provide very low watt density this way and the 120v standard hot water heater elements are generally too short with little surface area in contact for too short a time...... with small long cartridge heaters this is not an issue.
I run my 1000w element at the full 240v and can assure you there is NO scorching at all... The longer the element the lower the watt density, you can find these 1000w elements in lengths up to a few ft long.... this makes them actually a better choice than what most people are using...
just like comparing a longer herms coil to a short one.
 
augiedoggy said:
Your not understanding at all, the first link is a 120v rated element rated at 1000w output....
The second link is a 240v rated element also rated at 1000w output... They are the same size and length... the are just wired differently internally to produce the same heat with different voltages.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he knows that. I think the problem is, he's assuming that you're going to run the 240v heater on 120v, which is what I also assumed initially. You didn't make that very clear.
 
bja said:
I'm sure he knows that. I think the problem is, he's assuming that you're going to run the 240v heater on 120v, which is what I also assumed initially. You didn't make that very clear.
Click to expand...

I was editing when you typed that...
I stated I built a small cheap rims tube that works well ...he later asked if it runs on 120v or 220v I stated 220 but you could find 120v elements with the same output and watt density...

I believe I was being pretty clear on page 19 but I understand the what the misunderstanding is now...
 
PopTarts

I really appreciate this thread.
I built one similar to yours

I had a pump
I had a 3 gallon pot - from my old extract days
I had a Johnson Comptroller, left over from a keezer build
I repurposed my Copper Wort chiller - 25 ft of 1/2 inch

All I had to buy was the new QD for the wort chiller & a Hot Plate !

It has taken me a couple of brews to figure out how to keep the right temp in my Mash tun, but it works real good

Thanks ! (This is actually a picture of me moving water into the MT , not recirculating )

photo.jpg
 
steveoatley said:
PopTarts

I really appreciate this thread.
I built one similar to yours

I had a pump
I had a 3 gallon pot - from my old extract days
I had a Johnson Comptroller, left over from a keezer build
I repurposed my Copper Wort chiller - 25 ft of 1/2 inch

All I had to buy was the new QD for the wort chiller & a Hot Plate !

It has taken me a couple of brews to figure out how to keep the right temp im my Mash tun, but it works real good

Thanks !
Click to expand...

Nice glad to hear.
 
I've been using this system to keep my mash temps the same over the hour long mash. Plus the benefit of having clearer wort helps as well. Suits my needs to have a better mash and a higher quality wort.
 
So would an STC1000 be able to switch a 1300W hot plate? Not that it is needed for this, but thinking I could heat my water for the mash on it as well prior to calling it into service for HERMS.

Also, just a thought - I go SS for all my kettles that contact wort but in this case since it isn't in contact, so would an aluminum kettle transfer the heat to the water (and the coil) quicker?

This is the hot plate I was looking at http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I14C7I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You could probably get away with it, but it wouldn't be without risk. 1300watts pulls a little over 10 amps- the STC is rated for 10amps. If you preheated your HERMS water, the STC would go on and off much more rapidly, so you'd probably be ok, but there is still the risk of pulling too much and having serious problems.

I would NOT use it to preheat your water- going from tap temp up to mash temps would mean the STC would be ON for way too long- almost definitely overheating the internal wiring and ruining your STC, as well as putting yourself in danger for fires.

If you were dead-set on using the STC with 1300watts, I would DEFINITELY do as someone above stated, and wire up an AC-AC Solid State Relay- this would put the burden of the amperage on a much better piece of equipment.
 
grrickar said:
So would an STC1000 be able to switch a 1300W hot plate? Not that it is needed for this, but thinking I could heat my water for the mash on it as well prior to calling it into service for HERMS.

Also, just a thought - I go SS for all my kettles that contact wort but in this case since it isn't in contact, so would an aluminum kettle transfer the heat to the water (and the coil) quicker?

This is the hot plate I was looking at http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I14C7I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Click to expand...

Nope - thats 11 amps - STC's are only good for 10 amps.

You could have the STC switch a SSR that could switch a hot plate though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yea get an AC-AC SSR they are like 10$ on ebay for a 40A one, well worth it if you are going to get near the limit of the stc.
 
I wasn't planning to use the STC in the loop to preheat the mash tun water, just use the plate on high to get there, mash in, then use some remaining water in the HERMS kettle. At that point I'd call the STC into service to maintain the temp for the recirculation. I was suspecting that 1300w would be pushing it. :(
 
Genuine said:
View attachment 205629

Here's the American wheat I brewed with this system. I had the clearest wort I've ever seen. Hit all my numbers and it was nice keeping a mash temp for an entire hour. Can't wait to brew again in a couple weekends!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
Click to expand...

Hey where did you get the glass? Is it a stone or DFH one, or is it plain? I've been searching for a plain one foreverr
 
I made a copper coil from 10' of 1/2" tubing, and I bought a 20 qt SS kettle cheap.

I have tubing and camlocks and a pump. My 10 gallon mash tun is an Igloo Cooler. It holds temp decent, but I was thinking of the economy HERMS setup, and I think there are two ways about it - interested in thoughts of which would be better:

I have a hot plate to heat the 20 qt vessel, and an STC to control the temp.

Option 1: Put the coil in the 20 qt vessel and heat the water, temp controlled by STC, and pipe the wort from the mash tun thru the coil, then back in top of the mash tun.

Benefits: I am essentially vorlaufting for the duration

Cons: risk of grain bed compaction? losses to wort transfer

Option 2: Put the coil in the mash tun, circulate temp controlled hot water from the HLT thru the coil and back into the HLT

Benefits: Possibly better heat transfer? Tubing is cleaner, as is inside of coil, no transfer losses of wort since it isn't going anywhere

Cons: Outside of coil will need more cleaning. Still have to vorlauft

Interested to hear who has tried which method and what the results were...
 
Option 2 is dumb, option 1 is the only real option. Compaction of grain bed is not a real concern and loss of wort in the coil can be prevented by pumping sparge water through the coil during the sparge.
 
I don't think option #2 is dumb.

I believe another benefit to #2 is that it will likely result in a more precise control of the mash tun as a whole, since it will essentially maintain the entire mash volumes temperature rather than a small portion of it at a time. My opinion is strictly based on assumption, however.

It may require a little more effort in clean-up. My suggestion is to try them both and report back before settling for a permanent installation.
 
This thread inspired me, although I'm a stainless, camlock guy, in cheap about everything else. I found an 18' 3/8" stainless coil on ebay for $38 shipped and built this with that coil and camlock fittings. The stupid fittings cost $30.

I had a short thermowell which I put in a stainless tee for the sensor. I'm not sure if the temp rating / food safeness if that probe.

But I just built it and tested tonight and I must say, I'm very pleased. Thanks poptarts for thinking of this...

I tested pumping at some different rates to see how things would work with a mash going. At times, there was a 2 degree drop, but it recovered in 6 minutes.

I started with 120 degree water in the mash tun and the HERMS kettle and was able to raise it to 130 in about 20 minutes.

I am using about 1.75 gallons in the HERMS kettle and circulated 3.75 gallons. I can't wait until I get a weekend to brew and try it for real.

View attachment 1428723082440.jpg

View attachment 1428723112511.jpg

View attachment 1428723145495.jpg

View attachment 1428723172427.jpg
 
Thanks. When I saw that coil on ebay, it sealed the deal. I couldn't pass on it... Although if I hadn't seen your HERMS here first, I wouldn't have been looking for that coil 😊
 
Just finished mine last week and used it on the weekend. Took a little getting used to but it worked great and I hit my numbers. I put the temp control and my cheap solar pump into a toolbox so it can be portable. Thanks for this thread!

20150607_112735.jpg


20150607_112752.jpg


20150607_115404.jpg
 
What a great idea! I'm definitely incorporating this into my build. I had been pretty bummed that my budget didn't allow for a herms HLT setup, but this I can definitely squeeze in since all I need to buy is the copper and hot plate. The rest I have already.
 
dstauth said:
Just finished mine last week and used it on the weekend. Took a little getting used to but it worked great and I hit my numbers. I put the temp control and my cheap solar pump into a toolbox so it can be portable. Thanks for this thread!
Click to expand...

Great looking setup! What pump are you using? Just started looking at the solar ones and can't tell if they are actually food grade or not.
 
gwcr said:
Great looking setup! What pump are you using? Just started looking at the solar ones and can't tell if they are actually food grade or not.
Click to expand...

I'm using the 24V version of the tan solar pumps. There is a huge thread on them and it seems the tan versions are considered food grade. Here is the one I bought on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-DC-12...3M-new-/251478928442?var=&hash=item3a8d4fec3a

It does a great job and if I ever need to replace it, it won't break the bank. It doesn't show any signs of dying, but I might buy a backup pump just in case.
 
KegWrangler said:
I ran a few quick calcs...

Looks like the hot plate is 800W. If the 8qt pot is full of water in the range of 160*F and the heat transfer between plate and pot is 100% you could raise the temperature of the 2 gallons in the pot ~ 2.5*F every minute.

So If you are running 150*F wort through the HERMS at 1gpm you should be able to step about 5*F per minute (assuming perfect transfer of heat from Plate to pot through HERMS, etc). Unfortunately this would be the temp gain of that 1 gallon so the mash temperature increase would be that divided by the total mash volume (1*F/min for a 5 gallon mash, 0.5*F/min @ 10gallons...etc).

If you intend to use the HERMS to maintin temp and set your HERMS temp to match then more thermal mass is better. However, as it sounds that you want to be able to step the temperature up quickly, a smaller thermal mass sounds right.

Anyway, good luck...I am interested to see how the real world results turn out as I have been prepping a similar build but with a 1500W water heater element in a 3 gallon pot (running 2/3rds full for smaller thermal mass).
Click to expand...

How do you do such calculation?
 
I'm looking to upgrade my current heat source from the hot plate to a bucket heater. Mine right now in a 50 degree garage and even colder floors, is having a bit of trouble keeping temp in a keggle mash tun. I think the bucket heater being right in the water maybe better

Here's my current set up now, haven't shared it yet:

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1449769731.602680.jpg
 
have you tried some reflectix around the mashtun? But you are correct an element directly in the liquid will be much more efficient but you will need a relay or and SSR that can handle more than 10 amps if you go like over 1000w.
 
The bucket heaters I've been finding are right at 1000w. However I've been searching to see if adding a SSR would allow me to control my 2000w HotRod with the STC-1000 but haven't found a definite answer.
 
Turkeyshot said:
How do you wire the SSR to the STC-1000? Does the relay have its own power wired to it or is it just in line after the STC-1000?
Click to expand...


You de-solder the relay from the STC and run the + & - that fed the stc relay to an ssr.

I haven't done it yet, but I think the STC 1000+ thread has some pictures of how to do it. I plan to use one to control a 1V system I'm planning.
 
mattrox said:
You de-solder the relay from the STC and run the + & - that fed the stc relay to an ssr.

I haven't done it yet, but I think the STC 1000+ thread has some pictures of how to do it. I plan to use one to control a 1V system I'm planning.
Click to expand...

there are plenty of ways to not solderer anything
 

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