$50 Dedicated HERMS

[cantrell00]

my 1/2 10' does a great job at holding temps, i would bet you could get away with just 10' of 3/8, maybe 15' if your doing like 10 gallon batches.

Will be 5-6 gallon batches... I will experiment with it & go from there.

Thanks..

 

[BigFloppy]

This thread has gotten me thinking... my system is a full blown herms.
I'm thinking I can now modify and add your basic heater system to create strike water and at the same time get the main herms running and up to temperature for recirculation with zero wort wait.
Cost to me will be minimal cause I have one of those other cheap ebay REX-C100 PID's that were touted as ssr capable which we all know they aren't BUT for this job, I'm sure it'll work fine.
now how do I add the code to my arduino hmmmmmmm

 

[cantrell00]

Got mine built. Using a 900 watt heat plate, wide open.

Raised it from ground water temp of 73-74 degrees to 90 in about 20 minutes. 5 gallons.

 

[poptarts]

nice did it make it to mash temps?

 

[cantrell00]

nice did it make it to mash temps?

I turned it off. It was late & didn't want to babysit it all night. Just wanted to make sure that the stainless hex I used was going to work... Ended up with around 20' @ 3/8".

I have no doubt that it will work well. I doubt that I will use it to heat the entirety of the mash water volume though. Probably heat it to within 2-3 degrees of target with gas & let the HERMS take care of the rest...

Probably add gas heated water to the HERMS pot also. Will depend on how well I plan things out.

I'm pretty spontaneous about when I brew though..

 

[Falcon3]

Update on mine. I got the Aroma Hot plate the OP uses and did a trial today. My hot plate does not have enough wattage to get the herms pot high enough for any ramping. At first the plate was auto shutting off at around 162 degrees. I hard wired it to be in full or off and still not enough power to get any kind of ramping. I'm going to borrow a higher wattage plate and see if that helps, although the stc1000 is limited to about 1200 watts.
Edit: I ended up going with 10' of 1/2 copper for my HEX. pump is an ebay topsflow clone.

 

[steveoatley]

Still working on getting mine "tuned" in

I am using a Johnson Controller A419 - all ready had it
And a 25ft Copper Immersion Chiller as the coil - all ready had it

I am still having a hard time hitting my number for mash
And keeping it there.....

Steve

 

[itinerantbrewer]

Still working on getting mine "tuned" in

I am using a Johnson Controller A419 - all ready had it
And a 25ft Copper Immersion Chiller as the coil - all ready had it

I am still having a hard time hitting my number for mash
And keeping it there.....

Steve

SteveO--how much water are you using in your herms/hotplate pot? I think the OP was using just a couple inches. I think less water would allow more hotplate power to go into the recirculating wort.

Is your MT insulated?

I brew on a small (4.5 gal pre-boil) e-system and my experiences thus far make be believe that if insulated, and if the hose and copper runs (outside the hot water) aren't too long, this thing can surely hold 150 for an hour. Not so sure on a ramp up within a reasonable amount of time.

[edit]oops now see that yes, its insulated

Thanks to all for reporting out their experiences thus far

 

[poptarts]

SteveO--how much water are you using in your herms/hotplate pot? I think the OP was using just a couple inches. I think less water would allow more hotplate power to go into the recirculating wort.

Is your MT insulated?

I brew on a small (4.5 gal pre-boil) e-system and my experiences thus far make be believe that if insulated, and if the hose and copper runs (outside the hot water) aren't too long, this thing can surely hold 150 for an hour. Not so sure on a ramp up within a reasonable amount of time.

Thanks to all for reporting out their experiences thus far

I have used it with the pot full so 2 gallons in the herm pot and it was alot slower. normally I just use a quart or so, just enough to cover the coil and that seems to have the burner cycle less. I have had no issues holding temps in the 160s for hours with this setup. I do mash in a cooler and my hoses are 4' lengths if that helps. I am using an stc though so maybe its your jhonson controller. make sure your burner is on high.

 

[steveoatley]

SteveO--how much water are you using in your herms/hotplate pot? I think the OP was using just a couple inches. I think less water would allow more hotplate power to go into the recirculating wort.

Is your MT insulated?

I brew on a small (4.5 gal pre-boil) e-system and my experiences thus far make be believe that if insulated, and if the hose and copper runs (outside the hot water) aren't too long, this thing can surely hold 150 for an hour. Not so sure on a ramp up within a reasonable amount of time.

[edit]oops now see that yes, its insulated

Thanks to all for reporting out their experiences thus far

+++++++++++++++++++
I am using 3 gallons of water - The HERMS coil is my Copper Chiller
so it takes 3 gallons of water to get it submerged, in that middle pot.

The Igloo cooler is my Mash Tun - so yes it is insulated - I need to fill that lid with some spray foam insulation. I even pre heat my MT with 5 gallons of strike temp water

In this particular picture - I had the Johnson Controller probe in the HERMS water directly - and was trying to over shoot - Select 156F in order to get 152 in the MT - got close

I have since moved the Probe to the MT output, and that made the HERMS overshoot dramatically !!! 154 on the JC got me 167 in the HERMS coil pot
got me 150 in the MT ???? I was unable to raise the temp fast enough
( I know that is the problem with a Larger Volume of H2O in the HERMS pot )

So, I just moved the Probe to the MT input - the top connector.
I have not tested this yet

 

[poptarts]

my probe is on the MT input as well, seems to work best this way for me.

 

[itinerantbrewer]

my probe is on the MT input as well, seems to work best this way for me.

Yes Poptarts, I was going to say, looks like from your most recent pic, you upgraded from the nylon T. What did you go with there? Something like this (the brass t pic halfway down) http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249? I think it's what I may be doing if I go this route. Like I say, I e-brew and so have a pid that uses RTD type thermo prob. would just need this new linked rtd probe, a SS T fitting, and plumb it into the top (input side) of my MT.

very interesting and economical stuff, especially if brewing (fairly) small

 

[poptarts]

I'm still using the stock stc probe, i just siliconed it into a nipple and threaded that into a T with camlocks on both sides. The auber probe would work well for your needs i believe. I did this to make it a little easier to disconnect from my system when it wasn't in use.

 

[uncleleon]

Awesome thread!

 

[Genuine]

I'm using a small 2-3 quart sauce pot for mine and using only a couple inches of water...enough to cover the HEX coil. I can get mine up to strike temps from room temp overnight. However it does help to have the stop of the pot covered to keep the temps in and reduce evaporation.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[itinerantbrewer]

Poptarts--thanks!

Genuine--cant recall if you posted this or not but have you tried/been successful at ramping? Is your copper 1/2" x 10' also?

 

[poptarts]

my "ramp" speed is like 1 degree every 5 mins give or take some once mashed in and at mash temps with like 15lbs of grain.

 

[itinerantbrewer]

ok, good data point. is your herms pot water boiling at that point (when you are ramping) or is the passing wort pulling too much energy out?

what if you wanted to do a mashout, say from 154 to 168. guess you're saying that would take about an hour (not debating the value of a mashout, just saying what if you thought a mashout is important). what if you get 2 gallons boiling, have the hotplate on high, and then start the ramping. have you tried this, by chance? think it'd make a difference? or would the first couple degrees go quick and then back to 1/5 mins?

Thanks for humoring me

 

[poptarts]

ok, good data point. is your herms pot water boiling at that point (when you are ramping) or is the passing wort pulling too much energy out?

what if you wanted to do a mashout, say from 154 to 168. guess you're saying that would take about an hour (not debating the value of a mashout, just saying what if you thought a mashout is important). what if you get 2 gallons boiling, have the hotplate on high, and then start the ramping. have you tried this, by chance? think it'd make a difference? or would the first couple degrees go quick and then back to 1/5 mins?

Thanks for humoring me

the temp difference in the pot and the mash tun is minimal. the small pot has very little thermal mass so the coil is very efficient at removing it and putting it into the mash. I havnt tried mashing out with it because you are correct it would probably take like an hour.
The more water in the dedicated pot the slower the ramping is going to be. if you want to use this setup for ramping and mashing out i would recommend putting a 1500w hot water element in the little pot in place of the hot plate. and if you do that your going to need an ACAC SSR so you dont fry the stc making the system cost probably like $70-80

 

[itinerantbrewer]

very good, thanks

 

[Falcon3]

if you want to use this setup for ramping and mashing out i would recommend putting a 1500w hot water element in the little pot in place of the hot plate. and if you do that your going to need an ACAC SSR so you dont fry the stc making the system cost probably like $70-80

This is my next move, although I got the STC to hold temp really well- your initial concept was pretty brilliant- definitely higher efficiency and better conversion of my mash compared to standard cooler mashing-

Unfortunately, you've awoken the beast within me and now I'm addicted to wiring and programming, so a PID and SSR are in my very near future, along with a more traditional HERMS setup- let's call it a HERMS-LITE mixing the cheaper aspects of your system with the more sophistication of a traditional HERMS

 

[thekraken]

if you want to use this setup for ramping and mashing out i would recommend putting a 1500w hot water element in the little pot in place of the hot plate. and if you do that your going to need an ACAC SSR so you dont fry the stc making the system cost probably like $70-80

I had thought about the same thing too. My question to that is, would there be a problem getting a seal on the element? Given that the diameter of the listed 2 gallon walmart pot is much smaller than a usual larger brew kettle, and has a greater amount of curvature in the kettle wall, would there be difficulty pulling the element tight and forming a water tight seal?

 

[cantrell00]

Honestly, if willing to do all of that - may as well just use a IC as the coil & use a larger pot..

 

[poptarts]

I had thought about the same thing too. My question to that is, would there be a problem getting a seal on the element? Given that the diameter of the listed 2 gallon walmart pot is much smaller than a usual larger brew kettle, and has a greater amount of curvature in the kettle wall, would there be difficulty pulling the element tight and forming a water tight seal?

the pot walls are so thin i bet it would work fine.

 

[thekraken]

Honestly, if willing to do all of that - may as well just use a IC as the coil & use a larger pot..

I think it comes back to the price tag, amazon has 1500 w elements for even cheaper than the hot plate that OP used.

 

[poptarts]

after mounting gasket and nut, and ACACSSR though your looking at 20$ more

 

[Riot]

You can use a 1500W element straight of an stc right? I think it has 15 amp relays, and a 1500 should only draw 12.5 by the numbers. I am very tempted to do this with a 4 gallon pot running with 3 in it, hoping I can actually step mash without (large) infusions. Any thoughts?

 

[cantrell00]

You can use a 1500W element straight of an stc right? I think it has 15 amp relays, and a 1500 should only draw 12.5 by the numbers. I am very tempted to do this with a 4 gallon pot running with 3 in it, hoping I can actually step mash without (large) infusions. Any thoughts?

Based on what I have read, recirculating the heating water is important to ramping quickly. Minimization of stratification is key.

 

[poptarts]

You can use a 1500W element straight of an stc right? I think it has 15 amp relays, and a 1500 should only draw 12.5 by the numbers. I am very tempted to do this with a 4 gallon pot running with 3 in it, hoping I can actually step mash without (large) infusions. Any thoughts?

Ive read 10 but you could try I guess, i would invest in a 10$ ssr personally.

Based on what I have read, recirculating the heating water is important to ramping quickly. Minimization of stratification is key.

Recirculating is helpfull when the herms coil is in a lot of water, with this setup where there is only a quart it makes pretty much 0 difference.

 

[cantrell00]

I was referring to running a 4 gal pot w/ 3 gal in it.

 

[poptarts]

I was referring to running a 4 gal pot w/ 3 gal in it.

So i see lol, you are correct sir.

 

[cantrell00]

Heh... No biggie...

 

[TipsySaint]

So basically this little gadget is great at maintaining temps but doing big steps is tough... is that correct? So a 170 mash out is basically not possible....

 

[cantrell00]

So basically this little gadget is great at maintaining temps but doing big steps is tough... is that correct? So a 170 mash out is basically not possible....

Possible on smaller batches..

 

[TipsySaint]

how small?

 

[poptarts]

I do 5 gallon batches, used on large brews with 20lbs + of grain. you can defiantly get to 170 and hold there no issues, it will just take awhile.
its slow to increase temp though so mashing at 150 and expecting it to give you a mahouts at 170 in any short amount of time not going to happen.
I use it to preheat my sparge and strike water overnight, hit and hold my mash temps exactly. and sous vide, anything out of that and you are going to want to get a SSR, PID and a 1500w+ element.

 

[TipsySaint]

Because I have a cooler I generally do infusion mashing and then I batch sparge with 170 to do mashout....

This is an AWESOME build and i'm going to consider it, or i might just go with a bigger setup...

I use gas so maintaining the temp in my mashtun will be tough...this seems simpler if i go with this and then just do my additions of 170 like I do now....

 

[poptarts]

Because I have a cooler I generally do infusion mashing and then I batch sparge with 170 to do mashout....

This is an AWESOME build and i'm going to consider it, or i might just go with a bigger setup...

I use gas so maintaining the temp in my mashtun will be tough...this seems simpler if i go with this and then just do my additions of 170 like I do now....

this is exactly what I do.

 

[cantrell00]

I needed a quicker stepping so pulled the plug on a full blown HERMS.

I have a 2 gal pot + lid with a 3/8" stainless HERMS coil with camlock connectors if anyone is interested...

PM me..

 

[poptarts]

I cant see how this setup with the same heat source could be much if any faster. what are your temp ramping times?