4321 Saison Recipe Critique

[benjamin123]

How's this sound for a Saison grain bill?

5 gallon batch
90 min. step mash
BIAB

4 lbs Belgian Pils
3 lbs Wheat malt
2 lbs Munich
2 lbs Vienna
1 lb Flaked wheat
(maybe 1 lb. of sugar)

Wyeast French Saison 3711

I'm thinking of hopping with Magnum and Sorachi Ace, similar to the Brooklyn Sorachi Ace Saison.

Thanks in advance for critiques and feedback!
---B

 

[indigi]

Personally I'd choose between the Munich and Vienna, but it looks good. Definitely add the sugar, maybe even replace some of your malt with it - remember, it's supposed to be very dry and crisp.

 

[Prionburger]

Looks tasty--For me I'd also choose between Munich and Vienna, and then play with blends in the next batch, just to get an understanding for the flavor.

My experience with 3711: I brewed Jamil's Saison but with wyeast 3711 (starting ferment at 67f then ramping to 71f, noting that it's not the Dupont strain and has a more normal temperature range) and it finished at 1.004 from an OG of 1.063. The target FG was 1.008. That's nearly 8% alcohol. Flavor is very sweet and complex but finishes dry. I'm contemplating removing all sugar additions to beers fermented with 3711, and maybe a lower OG overall. I think attenuation and dryness are super easy to achieve with this yeast, if you treat it right.

In my opinion you've got a pretty safe experiment there. Good luck!

 

[tomlivings]

I made this and it was super fantastic: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/hoppy-french-saison.html
The yeast is great and lends a lot of character to the beer.

 

[Oldsock]

I made this and it was super fantastic: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/hoppy-french-saison.html
The yeast is great and lends a lot of character to the beer.

Glad it worked out well for you! I think 3711 Fresh Saison is the best way to go for the style, so much easier to work with than other strains. Next time I may try blending it with the Dupont strain to try to get a bit more peppery spice, but keep the great attenuation of 3711.

No need to add sugar in my experience, we made a big dark saison, with some crystal malt and mashed in the mid 150s and it still got down to 1.004. While it doesn't need to be pushed to 80/90, but it can take that sort of heat. I had a sample of a young commercially brewed saison with it that fermented in the low 90s, no fusels.

 

[Downhillfromhere]

I made a Saison very similar to this with 3711. I'd go with light Munich, but not both munich and vienne. Sugar might not even be necessary. I started at 1.064 and finished at 1.003! Good luck man!

 

[heywolfie1015]

I'll echo the "choose Munich or Vienna" comments. Also, if you use 3711, you're almost guaranteed great attenuation, so the sugar probably isn't needed to dry this out (as opposed to other strains, like 3724).

 

[benjamin123]

Okay,

So my plan will be to use only Vienna and drop the sugar.

Do I need to do a 90 min. boil b/c of the Belgian Pils so I don't have to worry about DMS?

How does 30ish IBUs of Magnum sound with Sorachi Ace/Centennial for aroma. I was thinking a single 60 min addition of Magnum and a late addition of Sorachi/Centennial and Sorachi/Centennial dry hopping.

My goal is to get a similar flavor profile to Brooklyn Sorachi Ace

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the help!

 

[indigi]

Definitely go for a 90 minute boil. Why cause a few weeks of worrying and maybe a bad batch because you didn't boil for an extra 30 minutes?

 

[benjamin123]

Good advice. . .

I may have to do a smaller batch or top off with water. I do BIAB (2 pot deathbrewer method) with a five and a seven gallon pot.

Do you think topping off with an extra 1/2 to 3/4 gallon of water will make much of a difference?

 

[indigi]

It would make a noticeable difference. If you have 4.25 gallons of 1.060 wort, adding .75 gallons of water would bring it down to 1.051, .5 gallons would bring it down to 1.054.

If you top off with .75 gallons of water that you boiled a pound of table sugar in, it'd only come down to 1.059, but I'd mash higher in that case because sugar would be making up about 15% of your recipe (in this hypothetical scenario).

 

[fineexampl]

I'd drop the Vienna, use the sugar or whichever adjunct you prefer. The hop choices aren't what i would have chosen, but you had an idea in mind and i can't say much that should sway you there.

I based mine loosely on the Jamil Show about Saisons. I went with 10lbs pilsner, 1lb Munich, .5lb flaked oats, and .25lb acid malt. I went with a varied blend of EKG, Hallertauer Mittlefrueh, and Saaz. I used a very very very small blend (about 1tsp total of everything) of actual spices and added them during chilling. Not 100% true to style, but heck it's my recipe. Instead of 1lb of white sugar i used piloncillo to dry the sucker out. Fermenting presently in the low 70Fs with Easy Coast Yeast's Saison Brasserie. If this turns out okay, i'll rebrew with no spice additions and the other ECY saison with the brett added.

Good luck with your brew!