Wet Hopped Rye Saison

[Perthbrewer]

Hi everyone,

Here in the land down under is almost harvest time and I have a beautiful Hallerthau Hersbrucker hop plant almost ready to harvest.

Last year I brew a delicious American Wheat with them.

This year I am planning to brew a Rye Saison, bitter with Hallerthau Magnum anf add the bulk of the hops during the whirpool, and use WLP590 French Saison as yeast because is more delicate then the Belgian counterpart.

This is the grain bill:

Mallokup and Blue Lake Milling are local Western Australian malters.

I am not sure yet about the total IBU because I don't know how much yield one Hallerthau Hersbrucker plant will give me...

What do you guys think?

 

[G_robertus]

I'm not a big saison brewer so I can't give you any numbers. I've read anything between 20 and 40 IBU so I'd go for what you like.
I do brew with wet or non-store hops every year. Usually I bitter my beer to around where I want and ignore the IBU at 15-0/WP. I tend to do that with many beers anyway. I'm not sure how much you're going to add, but usually I take the lower end of the spectrum (and sometimes even a bit below) and divide the AAs by five. If for a particular style or beer I'm too far off target I'll decrease my first addition accordingly.

E.g.: I'm brewing a mild with fresh EKG @15 and my IBU-sensitive cousin is coming over. My aim: 20 IBU. I would add 30 grams of pellets, so I'll add 150-165 grams of fresh hops. The lower end of the spectrum is 4% AA, so I'll use .75-.8% AA per gram of wet hops. This will yield about 7 IBU so I use Admiral/Target/AnyUKHop from the shop to get to 15 IBU. If I were to add any fresh hops at five or less minutes I would probably ignore the bitterness, but that is personal. Same for higher IBU beers, I wouldn't care too much if it were 35 or 40 IBU.

Say you want to use all of your hops at once, just do this or a similar calculation on brew day to adjust your initial charge. I doubt it matters much with Hersbrucker though. Apparently humans have a hard time discriminating IBU differences less than five.

 

[Perthbrewer]

Hi mate, thank you for your reply.

I will see how much yield I will have then I will adjust the bittering charge accordingly. If I have a big yield I might to a 5 min addition too, let's see. Otherwise I ll add everything in the whirpool.

Anyone can give me feedback on the grain bill?

 

[Halfakneecap]

I brew saison every year, but i go very basic, 25% malted spelt and the rest pils. Long low mash for very low FG.

I like them like that though, very dry and all about the yeast flavour. I also like really bitter. 50 IBU for 1.045 etc

Really up to you

 

[Perthbrewer]

I wanted to brew a Rye Saison this time because I think that the spice of the Rye will match well with the Hallerthau Hersbrucker flavour.

I ll mash for 75 minutes.

I never tried spelt tbh, next time I might give it a go.

Which contribution do you think that 25% spelt brings to a Saison?

 

[Halfakneecap]

I wanted to brew a Rye Saison this time because I think that the spice of the Rye will match well with the Hallerthau Hersbrucker flavour.

I ll mash for 75 minutes.

I never tried spelt tbh, next time I might give it a go.

Which contribution do you think that 25% spelt brings to a Saison?

I think it gives an earthy slightly spicy flavour. I dont like rye, but i like spelt. Huge rocky head too. Though thats also partly due to high carbonation ( champagne bottles )

 

[Perthbrewer]

I think it gives an earthy slightly spicy flavour. I dont like rye, but i like spelt. Huge rocky head too. Though thats also partly due to high carbonation ( champagne bottles )

Ok, I 'll give spelt a go on my next saison. I love the spicy flavours mate! You reckon 25% of thr total grain bill yeah?

 

[Halfakneecap]

Ok, I 'll give spelt a go on my next saison. I love the spicy flavours mate! You reckon 25% of thr total grain bill yeah?

Yeah, ive gone to 30% but 25% is enough to notice the flavour. I use wyeast 3726 as well. Much easier to work with than 3724, its fussy.

 

[Perthbrewer]

Yeah, ive gone to 30% but 25% is enough to notice the flavour. I use wyeast 3726 as well. Much easier to work with than 3724, its fussy.

Ok I 'll try. This one I 'll use WLP590 French Saison as I have a third generation vial and I want to finish it up.. the I got both wyeast 3726 and 3724 on the freezer...

 

[monkeymath]

I like the sound of that! Personally, I'd up the IBUs considerably (30ish). It's hard to say how much a wet hops whirlpool contributes, but ime it's not a lot.

Don't expect the rye to contribute a whole lot of flavour though. Plus, it may give the beer a slightly greyish tint, which is why I like to throw in some Vienna malt to push it to more of a golden colour. The other malts in you bill should achieve the same.

Lastly, if you want to boost that "spicy" flavour profile, you may want to check out Imperial Rustic yeast. The pepper is a bit too much for me, but it might fit your taste.

 

[Perthbrewer]

I like the sound of that! Personally, I'd up the IBUs considerably (30ish). It's hard to say how much a wet hops whirlpool contributes, but ime it's not a lot.

Don't expect the rye to contribute a whole lot of flavour though. Plus, it may give the beer a slightly greyish tint, which is why I like to throw in some Vienna malt to push it to more of a golden colour. The other malts in you bill should achieve the same.

Lastly, if you want to boost that "spicy" flavour profile, you may want to check out Imperial Rustic yeast. The pepper is a bit too much for me, but it might fit your taste.

Thanks mate, yeah I ll see how much IBU the hallertau hersbrucker will contribute on brew day and I ll take it from there...

I think that a 25% rye will spice it up al little.. I don't want to go more than that because I don't want it to be too syrupy and so far the colour is 10 EBC so will be quite golden...

Unfortunately here in Western Australia we can't get Imperial yeast we can only get wyeast at me LHBS as our home brew culture is way smaller than the US even if our taxes on alcohol are the third highest in the world (after Iceland and Norway)

I rather go with a French Saison because is a bit more subtle and I want the wet hops to shine there...

 

[Perthbrewer]