120/240v DIY PID Controller Help

[kotamoore23]

I am new to HomeBrewtalk but have been brewing for about 2 years now with a year of that on a 120v clawhammer system. I am about to upgrade my garage to have 240v outlet so of course I want to build a controller that can utilize the power. But I often take my brewing system to friends that that only have 120v outlets. So my question is it possible to build DIY a controller that can use both 120v or 240v? I am a newbie with wiring and the diy controllers so this is why I am asking the gurus. Things to note below

• Already own 1650 watt element from clawhammer system
• I will be purchasing a 5500 watt element once I have 240v in garage
• Outlets with 120v are 20amp, serviced with 12 gauge wire. So should I go to 2000 watt 120v element?
• I am thinking this is possible because the Spike Panel does this by simply changing the power cord. Would like to utilize this aspect.
• Would need to run a 120v pump with the controller as well.

I have seen quite a few schematics on the site like this one from MoonJee88 post,

and I am wondering do I just simply upgrade from 14 AWG to 10 AWG so that it can handle 240v when needed? Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[Bobby_M]

Portability is nice and all but once you brew a single batch on a 5500 watt, 240v element, you may smash the 120v element with a sledgehammer out of spite and tell your scrub friends to get their own brewing gear.

 

[kotamoore23]

I have been a part of brew day that had a 5500 watt element, its the whole reason I am putting a 240 outlet in my garage. But as for the friends (that are definitely scrubs without their own brewing system) it is still a nice time to get together and drink a few beers that we brewed. Hence the reason I want this dual option controller.

 

[sweets17]

Why not make a dedicated 240v and keep the clawhammer as a portable option and just swap out the element?

 

[kotamoore23]

Why not make a dedicated 240v and keep the clawhammer as a portable option and just swap out the element?

That is an option. I am wondering if the 2000 watt element is worth it compared to the 1650 watt for heat up and boil times. I know currently the clawhammer controller can't run it.

 

[sweets17]

That is an option. I am wondering if the 2000 watt element is worth it compared to the 1650 watt for heat up and boil times. I know currently the clawhammer controller can't run it.

I would think the gains would be minimal especially when compared to the 5500, but I haven't any experience with either of the lower wattages.

I mean if you're just out to have a good time with friends with the 120...the way I see it less wattage = more fun lol.

 

[Bobby_M]

About 25% more power. Better boil so small boost in brewhouse efficiency.

 

[doug293cz]

Here's a design that can be plugged into either a 240V outlet or a 120V outlet, with info on how to wire an adapter pigtail so you don't have to change plugs.

Brew on

 

[kotamoore23]

Here's a design that can be plugged into either a 240V outlet or a 120V outlet, with info on how to wire an adapter pigtail so you don't have to change plugs.

View attachment 839907

Brew on

This is perfect! But a few questions for you.

I am guessing the auxiliary outlet is on as long as the main switch was on. If I wanted to put it on a switch I would wire it the same as the pump?

When plugged into 120v will the element indicator still work even though it is 240v?

And instead of creating a pigtail could I just wire my power cord that way without complications?

 

[kotamoore23]

I would think the gains would be minimal especially when compared to the 5500, but I haven't any experience with either of the lower wattages.

I mean if you're just out to have a good time with friends with the 120...the way I see it less wattage = more fun lol.

Less wattage = more beers and forgetting to finish brewing for sure lol.

 

[sibelman]

Will a 15 amp circuit at your friend's place support a 2000 watt element? Very low wattage (infinite beer?) if the breaker keeps tripping!

 

[doug293cz]

I am guessing the auxiliary outlet is on as long as the main switch was on. If I wanted to put it on a switch I would wire it the same as the pump?

Yes and yes.

When plugged into 120v will the element indicator still work even though it is 240v?

Yes, but it will be dimmer.

And instead of creating a pigtail could I just wire my power cord that way without complications?

No. You need different plugs for 240V vs. 120V outlets. If the power cord is detachable at the control panel, you could make two power cords with different plugs (and wire gauges.)

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

And instead of creating a pigtail could I just wire my power cord that way without complications?

It's not real clear what you're suggesting here. When you run it on 240v the cable needs to be 10/4 minimum and the L1 Hot, L2 Hot, Neutral and Ground are all separate into the box. You can do that with either a panel mount L14-30P or you can hardwire a dongle through the box with a grip but it still has to be 10/4 cable with an L14-30P on the end.

From there, you'll need a way to get 120v into that plug when you're running on 120v (I know that's a captain obvious thing to say). The neutral of the 120v needs to be wired to both the neutral and the L2 hot and that jumping happens in the L14-30R of your 5-15P to L14-30R adapter cable.

You can't do that via a separate 5-15 input cable or panel mount plug because when that's plugged in, you'll back feed voltage to your 240v input cable/panel mount with male prongs exposed (AKA suicide cable).

 

[kotamoore23]

Will a 15 amp circuit at your friend's place support a 2000 watt element? Very low wattage (infinite beer?) if the breaker keeps tripping!

The outlets we use are 20 amp feed by 12 gauge wire. I think that can handle up to 2,400 watts from what I have seen. So a 2,000 watt element and a pump should be okay, in my mind at least. I am sure there will be times I forget the 120V power cord and the only option is infinite beer!

From there, you'll need a way to get 120v into that plug when you're running on 120v (I know that's a captain obvious thing to say). The neutral of the 120v needs to be wired to both the neutral and the L2 hot and that jumping happens in the L14-30R of your 5-15P to L14-30R adapter cable.

You can't do that via a separate 5-15 input cable or panel mount plug because when that's plugged in, you'll back feed voltage to your 240v input cable/panel mount with male prongs exposed (AKA suicide cable).

I plan to hard wire a dongle into the box with a L14-30P on the end. This will be 10 AWG as you said. Then I will have two power cords, a 10/4 L14-30R to either a 14-30P or L14-30P depending on garage outlet I choose. Then I will have a separate L14-30R to a 5-20P cord for running 120V when needed. Choosing a 5-20P just so I never forget it is only for 20 amp breakers. Of course splicing the N and L2 as you and Doug said. My question is should this be 12 AWG or 10 AWG? 10 seems like overkill to me.

 

[doug293cz]

The outlets we use are 20 amp feed by 12 gauge wire. I think that can handle up to 2,400 watts from what I have seen. So a 2,000 watt element and a pump should be okay, in my mind at least. I am sure there will be times I forget the 120V power cord and the only option is infinite beer!


I plan to hard wire a dongle into the box with a L14-30P on the end. This will be 10 AWG as you said. Then I will have two power cords, a 10/4 L14-30R to either a 14-30P or L14-30P depending on garage outlet I choose. Then I will have a separate L14-30R to a 5-20P cord for running 120V when needed. Choosing a 5-20P just so I never forget it is only for 20 amp breakers. Of course splicing the N and L2 as you and Doug said. My question is should this be 12 AWG or 10 AWG? 10 seems like overkill to me.

The 120V power cord can be 12AWG, since the receptacle won't provide more than 20A.

Brew on

 

[whoaru99]

The outlets we use are 20 amp feed by 12 gauge wire. I think that can handle up to 2,400 watts from what I have seen. So a 2,000 watt element and a pump should be okay, in my mind at least. I am sure there will be times I forget the 120V power cord and the only option is infinite beer!

Technically, cord and plug connected loads are not supposed to exceed 80% of circuit rating if/when the circuit supplies more than one outlet.

120V x 20A = 2400W × 80% = 1920W

 

[sibelman]

120V x 20A = 2400W × 80% = 1920W

The 80% rule is a good one. But, if everything is reasonably well built, the 83.3% 2000W load shouldn't cause problems. I hope there's nothing else on that circuit during the brew.

Infinite beer has been known to be associated with problems, though.

 

[whoaru99]

The 80% rule is a good one. But, if everything is reasonably well built, the 83.3% 2000W load shouldn't cause problems. I hope there's nothing else on that circuit during the brew.

Infinite beer has been known to be associated with problems, though.

The 80% rule I presume you're citing is continuous loads (3hrs or more). That applies regardless of cord and plug connected or single/multiple outlets.

The information is provided. I got chastized for talking about weighing boiloff using a scale. I'm certainly not going to suggest it's OK to skirt Code.