applescrap
Be the ball!
Never seen that. Looks tasty whatever that is. Thanks, now I want one. I have threatened keeping a keg of energy drink.
☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting
- Thread starter passedpawn
- Start date
-
- Tags
- coffee
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Holy crap, I've been in the middle of no where without internet, phone, or tv for a few days and you guys gave me some good reading to catch up on. I always enjoy the discussions on here.
One thing I'll add about grinders - I did a TON of research about the Sette and reached out to Baratza directly for their input - they advised the Sette would not work well for pour over so they couldn't recommend it to me, which I really respect because that was one less product they could move. Since I heard it straight from the horse's mouth, I decided not to bother with the Sette.
After talking to @jammin I went with the Vario, HOWEVER - I purchased the steel burr set as an alternative to the ceramic burrs. The steel burrs are meant for grinding for pour over and they still produce a fantastic grind for espresso. If I wanted, I could swap in the ceramic burrs for shots in about 5 mins, but the steel burrs do a just fine job so I have never removed them since installing them.
Point being, if you want a great all around grinder I would suggest considering the Vario and ordering a steel burr set. There aren't many grinders that can grind for espresso AND chemex but this one does it without any issues.
One thing I'll add about grinders - I did a TON of research about the Sette and reached out to Baratza directly for their input - they advised the Sette would not work well for pour over so they couldn't recommend it to me, which I really respect because that was one less product they could move. Since I heard it straight from the horse's mouth, I decided not to bother with the Sette.
After talking to @jammin I went with the Vario, HOWEVER - I purchased the steel burr set as an alternative to the ceramic burrs. The steel burrs are meant for grinding for pour over and they still produce a fantastic grind for espresso. If I wanted, I could swap in the ceramic burrs for shots in about 5 mins, but the steel burrs do a just fine job so I have never removed them since installing them.
Point being, if you want a great all around grinder I would suggest considering the Vario and ordering a steel burr set. There aren't many grinders that can grind for espresso AND chemex but this one does it without any issues.
I just replaced the ceramic burrs with the steel burrs on my vario Sunday night. Two v60's yesterday and a chemex today and the reduction of fines and it's impact on the brewing process was noticeable. Not sure I can comment a lot on flavor comparison, I've been brewing that batch of "bourbon aged" old beans.
I haven't tried an espresso grind with them yet, but given that baratza doesn't even have a recommended setting for espresso with them, I hold out little hope.
I haven't tried an espresso grind with them yet, but given that baratza doesn't even have a recommended setting for espresso with them, I hold out little hope.
Not for nothing guys...I have the baratza encore that I use for my technivorm auto and pour overs, which I think has done a fantastic job. I did the calibration also. I have played with finer grinds for doing up in my aeropress and sprinkling on my icecream
. At the finest I dare to go with it, at about 3 it produces powder. Which goes best with ice cream!!! Serious, fine fluffy powder. It takes a while for it to do it though. Only because the beans are not easily entered into the burrs. Being I have no other grinder (read as no choice) with what I grind with for espresso, I will single dose the beans, grind and reweigh them after. SWMBO has not had sufficient time to cool off for me to attempt the purchase of a dedicated espresso grinder 
yet!!! In contention are vario, sette, rancilio rocky, then next level (and a divorce probably lol) niche, eureka, or mazzer, after that maybe a monolith! Would really like to be able to grind into the pf basket on any of the choices.
. At the finest I dare to go with it, at about 3 it produces powder. Which goes best with ice cream!!! Serious, fine fluffy powder. It takes a while for it to do it though. Only because the beans are not easily entered into the burrs. Being I have no other grinder (read as no choice) with what I grind with for espresso, I will single dose the beans, grind and reweigh them after. SWMBO has not had sufficient time to cool off for me to attempt the purchase of a dedicated espresso grinder yet!!! In contention are vario, sette, rancilio rocky, then next level (and a divorce probably lol) niche, eureka, or mazzer, after that maybe a monolith! Would really like to be able to grind into the pf basket on any of the choices.
Interesting, baratza just updated their comparison table:Not for nothing guys...I have the baratza encore that I use for my technivorm auto and pour overs, which I think has done a fantastic job. I did the calibration also. I have played with finer grinds for doing up in my aeropress and sprinkling on my icecream
https://baratza.com/choosing-your-grinder/
It used to be a three + scale, now it's a five star scale and there are some changes in there.
Either way, the encore is a solid pourover/automatic grinder by their ratings.
From your espresso grinder list, I'd take Mazzer and Rocky off. They are both very old and very robust designs and will stand up to many years of use, but in their price brackets, they don't stand up to the competition. The mazzer super jolly is usually compared directly to the vario and costs twice as much. Your encore is likely comparable to the rocky and costs half as much. Now, if i had a coffee shop, I'd be looking at mazzers for their reliability and longevity, but for home use, reliability and longevity are on a different scale.
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
You guys got me thinking of espresso...it'd been a long time since I had had a shot (of coffee...) so I just ran that Ethiopia Hanghadi through the Gaggia as a SO espresso. First few sips, and the crema is like drinking fresh whipped cream - it has a really nice light body with matching fruit flavors. Started with strawberry flavors, now as it cools I'm getting blackberry and a little cocoa.
I know a lot of people like cold brew when it gets warm out but this is the time of year I start to drink more and more espresso. Now if only it will stop raining and start warming up around here......
I know a lot of people like cold brew when it gets warm out but this is the time of year I start to drink more and more espresso. Now if only it will stop raining and start warming up around here......
There she be!!!
Beautiful!!
Ok what time can I come over for a few espressos? Wow, she is pretty!
You could come over now!!! LoL!! Not promising a good shot yet though.... Shot on right is the very first, after just a water purge, and then the one on the left is second. Displays a little more crema than first and is not sour like the first
My phone doesn't like sending pics....
4th and last shot for tonight...
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
4th one looks good. Are you timing them by chance? That helped me get an idea of if I was doing it right, or getting better
They start to pour at 10 or 11 seconds, and machine stops at 25. Achieved 9 bar pressure on last shot. Now I am reviewing on how I can do a low pressure pre-infusion...which I think would help for the lighter roasts I have. I was just too excited to not try something tonight...lol...a little testing run...
I started at about a 10 setting with the encore grinder (1st shot) and switched it down to 6 for the second. Got ambitious and dropped it to 2 for the 3rd...which is why I didn't even bother taking a pic....super dark, hardly any crema and very little liquid in the cup. Think I choked it too much. So the 4th shot I increased back up to a 4...
that is with 20 grams weighed with beans, and I seem to lose 1.5 grams getting it from grinder to what goes in the basket
that is with 20 grams weighed with beans, and I seem to lose 1.5 grams getting it from grinder to what goes in the basket
applescrap
Be the ball!
I set my virtuoso at 4 or 5 iirc. I'll check. I want the vario. Is it still available.
Making guat geisha to take to arches np. Glad they have sweet n low, sugar, whatever. I'm going to make a huge iced coffee. I drink espresso with sugar and milk then a bunch 8f ice. Sometimes with wife's creamer and splash of milk.
Making guat geisha to take to arches np. Glad they have sweet n low, sugar, whatever. I'm going to make a huge iced coffee. I drink espresso with sugar and milk then a bunch 8f ice. Sometimes with wife's creamer and splash of milk.
Last edited:
HarborTownBrewing
Well-Known Member
Regarding the settings on the Encore/Virtuoso (and any Baratza home grinder...maybe all grinders too?), settings can vary widely from grinder to grinder depending on how they are calibrated. You'll see some people say they grind for espresso on 2, others on 7, etc. It all depends on where the set screw is set on your particular grinder.
Here's a pretty good video on how to calibrate or check the calibration on your grinder:
Just wanted to mention this as grinder settings can vary and what works for one grinder may not for another - which is good to keep in mind when you are trying to dial in shots. When I had my encore I set it so my espresso grind was a 2 which still gave me enough top-end range to grind for Chemex and FP.
Here's a pretty good video on how to calibrate or check the calibration on your grinder:
Just wanted to mention this as grinder settings can vary and what works for one grinder may not for another - which is good to keep in mind when you are trying to dial in shots. When I had my encore I set it so my espresso grind was a 2 which still gave me enough top-end range to grind for Chemex and FP.
Currently at a setting of 6 on the encore. Calibrated mine a while back according to that video. Was getting a nice looking shot, but on the sour side at 4, so have incrementally increased to where it is less sour. Last shot this morning had me scratching my head asking myself it that was more bitter than sour!?? LoL!!
It only takes a few shots to really change your palate, carbonated water really does a good job as an espresso palate cleanser. I've also read (Scott Rao, I think) that americanos can be better for taste testing since the flavors are less intense. I'm not very used to drinking americanos, so I don't feel like it's a great tool for me, but something to consider at least.
With all this talk of espressos I needed to make one for myself today.
I wish my palate was more refined with coffee but all I can say is, this Cuban bean is so smooth. Not bitter or astringent, just smooth with a nice cocoa finish.
I’m going to roast tonight.. I’m going to roast tonight.. I’m going to roast tonight . I’m GOING to roast tonight
A trick for fine adjustments on stepped grinders to slightly increase or decrease dose. Keep that in your bag of tricks when dialing in your shots. Look’n good so far!
A trick for fine adjustments on stepped grinders to slightly increase or decrease dose. Keep that in your bag of tricks when dialing in your shots. Look’n good so far!
I am going to roast tonight! LoL! Going to start my pre heat after this post! Done used up all my available roasted beans at least for doing espresso...and only have a pot's worth for the moccamaster.
Thanks everyone for the advice and guidance!!! Sure does help me focus in!
applescrap
Be the ball!
The guat geisha I tasted some apricot. It disappeared when I iced it, but man it was nice to suckle on a huge ice cold cup of hr coffee. Thanks passedpawn, Jammin, Harbor and the rest of the crew. What a treat. Man sweet light last night.
Warning: (not really)NSFW roaster pics.
Took the cover off of my Mill City last night to put the cable for the new temp probe in place. Figured I’d post a couple pictures. Looks like the inside of some electric brewing control panels, plenty of components in common.
Took the cover off of my Mill City last night to put the cable for the new temp probe in place. Figured I’d post a couple pictures. Looks like the inside of some electric brewing control panels, plenty of components in common.
Ugh. App is making it hard to post more than one pic in a post.
One more.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 2,418
- Reaction score
- 3,059
I will have to tear mine down for a cleaning in the very near future. Right now... it's in use!
Above you see my make shift bean controller!! LoL! Dang things are unruley as all get out coming out of the drum. Often trying to escape!!
Yes.
The PID and BT probes were the stock 5mm probes. The ET probe was a smaller one that I assume a previous owner replaced due to failure. I'm moving the old ET probe to the PID and got a pair of new ones from Mill City for artisan BT and ET. This way I have more confidence in the data in artisan. I suppose that I could use the old BT probe for the PID, but if two of those 5mm probes have failed on this roaster, I'm betting that third one will fail too.
I'm tempted to route all of the TC wires through the roaster and mount the phidget to the roaster as well, but i don't think i'll do that right now.
The speed controller for the air flow has a modbus port. If I replace the PID with one that has a modbus port, it should be easy to control the roaster with artisan. The drum speed control appears to be entirely analog (via a module humorously labeled "ASS-22"), so I suspect I would have to replace that, if i want to control it in software, but drum speed doesn't bring as much to the party in automation.
Fresh roasted, fresh shot. Increased my pre infusion to 10 and pulled ended shot as 30
I wouldn't mess with the ASS-22. I just replaced mine & the unit it is very specific to running the motor. If you're very comfortable with all the stuff then maybe no problem but I tried using an AS-22 speed controller & the drum wouldn't run. The extra S in the model name makes a big difference apparently. The component cooling fan in the housing failed on my roaster & I suspect the speed controller over heated as a result. The top of it was melted slightly & sunken in with a 1/2" x 1/2" dent. The failure caused the drum motor to have a very rough start. Heavy buzzing & heaving sounds combined with low to no rotation. It's exactly what symptoms you'd experience of the start capacitor to your AC condenser (the outside box) took a dump.
As for the TC failure, the 5mm BT probe on my roaster had a mechanical failure. The sheath is what the actual 5mm measurement is based. The TC is just 2 small wires soldered together which are shoved into the end of the stainless steel tube. That tube protects it but also carries a thermal mass that influences the reading you get. I feel like the 5mm sheath carries a thermal mass that simulates drum temp/dynamics much closer than the lighter 2mm probes. Artisan records my BT temp at charge but i manually record ET (2mm probe in the plenum/exhaust along with the 5mm PID probe). The difference between the 2mm ET probe in the plenum & the 5mm PID probe vary quite wildly but using my the PID probe for charge temp my roast results are very consistent.
As for the TC failure, the 5mm BT probe on my roaster had a mechanical failure. The sheath is what the actual 5mm measurement is based. The TC is just 2 small wires soldered together which are shoved into the end of the stainless steel tube. That tube protects it but also carries a thermal mass that influences the reading you get. I feel like the 5mm sheath carries a thermal mass that simulates drum temp/dynamics much closer than the lighter 2mm probes. Artisan records my BT temp at charge but i manually record ET (2mm probe in the plenum/exhaust along with the 5mm PID probe). The difference between the 2mm ET probe in the plenum & the 5mm PID probe vary quite wildly but using my the PID probe for charge temp my roast results are very consistent.
Well, unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that drum speed influences the roast much (as long as it's in the range it should be in) so automating that would be low on the list anyway.
My PID probe is actually much nearer to my BT probe than the ET probe. The exhaust plenum on mine has the ET probe and an analog dial thermometer. Since I've never had a working PID probe, thus far I've not used it for anything at all, all of my roasting has been based on what is reported in artisan. I mostly wanted to fix the PID probe so that I don't have to watch the roaster as much when it's warming up. Maybe the 5mm probe would be better for me, but we'll see what I get.
Does your roaster not have adjustable drum speed? Mine has a potentiometer connected to the ASS-22 to adjust drum speed. Maxed out, it is just barely getting to optimal RPMs.
I always let my roaster warm up for 30 minutes prior to the first roast. After it initially climbs to 435*, the pid shuts the gas off. Once it kicks back on, I set the gas to a minimum level & fan to 50. This combo holds the roaster at 380 almost perfectly for the duration of warm up and between batches. This reading is easy to see on the PID and again, what I feel gives a more true appx. of drum temp. You'll notice that adjust fan speed will cause the 2mm probe readings to swing rapidly.
I always let my roaster warm up for 30 minutes prior to the first roast. After it initially climbs to 435*, the pid shuts the gas off. Once it kicks back on, I set the gas to a minimum level & fan to 50. This combo holds the roaster at 380 almost perfectly for the duration of warm up and between batches. This reading is easy to see on the PID and again, what I feel gives a more true appx. of drum temp. You'll notice that adjust fan speed will cause the 2mm probe readings to swing rapidly.
Yes, it has the ASS-22 and the potentiometer. I adjust it a couple times during a roast to try to keep the 50 degree tumble, and it seems to have more than enough speed for my batch sizes.
I need to really, really practice my frothing skills...lol
You and me both!!! Amen.
I also got coffee dedicated scales now too. Several steps up from having a normal kitchen scale for everything. The small one fits under espresso cups underneath the portafilter so I can really get accurate now.
Similar threads
