Help (quick) with Wyeast 3787 yeast starter

[devils4ever]

I've been brewing forever (decades) and never had this issue. I'm doing a Belgian Tripel tomorrow and made my starter this morning. I smacked my Wyeast 3787 yeast pack this morning and nothing seems to be happening. The pack is not swelling after 9+ hours. My LHBS is usually very good and keep their yeasts refrigerated. I've never done a Tripel before or used this yeast.

So, do I add the yeast to my starter even though it hasn't swelled? Is this yeast bad?

I'm tempted to not brew tomorrow unless this yeast gets going. Thoughts?

 

[JohnSand]

Sorry I'm late. I believe the packs say that they might not swell. Are you sure you broke the nutrient packet? If so, open the yeast. If it smells yeasty, use it. If it smells rotten, do not. Pitch it in your starter, use it when you are ready. I often use a "vitality starter" and pitch the same day, or next day. In warm weather my ferm fridge finishes the chilling overnight, pitching the next day is generally safe. If your yeast is rotten, a starter may revive it, or you may need more. Keeping dry yeast backup can save a brew. Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[devils4ever]

JohnSand, thanks for your reply. When I awoke this morning, the yeast pack was swollen! I guess this yeast takes time. So, I added it to my starter. I usually wait 24 hours to let the starter finish, so I might have to wait until tomorrow to pitch the yeast even though my wort should be ready this afternoon.

 

[IslandLizard]

JohnSand, thanks for your reply. When I awoke this morning, the yeast pack was swollen! I guess this yeast takes time. So, I added it to my starter. I usually wait 24 hours to let the starter finish, so I might have to wait until tomorrow to pitch the yeast even though my wort should be ready this afternoon.

Make sure that starter has turned much lighter in color, the sign of growth of lots of new yeast cells. You can easily keep your wort for a day before pitching.
I think it's better to wait to add a good healthy starter than underpitching with an underdeveloped one.

If push comes to shove you can always reboil the wort, or better yet, reheat to pasteurization temps (150-160F and keep there for 10-30 minutes). You may shift your hop profile a little, but most Belgians don't contain a lot of hops. Steep some fresh ones in the 150F wort if you want with an occasional stir (hop stand).

 

[Comfort_Zone]

As long as you've got activity in the starter you can just throw it in. That yeast is pretty tough so I wouldn't worry about a smack pack not inflating.

 

[devils4ever]

Well, I waited until evening and pitched the yeast. Here's what it looked like before pitching.

I haven't seen any activity yet this morning, but I'm hoping to see some this afternoon.

 

[IslandLizard]

Any oxygenation?

 

[devils4ever]

Just my usual procedure.

 

[kh54s10]

It should go. But I don't think, based on the color, that you got full yeast production. I would like to see it a lot more like milk with a little coffee in it.

 

[kh54s10]

You should probably get some sort of cover over your stirplate fan. In case you have a blow off. Then you won't soak the fan with wort and yeast!

OOPS! on closer inspection of the picture I see it has a Plexiglas cover. NICE!

 

[IslandLizard]

It should go. But I don't think, based on the color, that you got full yeast production. I would like to see it a lot more like milk with a little coffee in it.

My thoughts exactly!

If this was pitched into a high gravity ale I fear it'll come up short.

 

[devils4ever]

Yeah, the SG = 1.082.

 

[IslandLizard]

100-150 billion cells in a 1.082 beer...

For all security I'd get another pack and make another starter, then pitch that 2-3 days later.

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

100-150 billion cells in a 1.082 beer...

For all security I'd get another pack and make another starter, then pitch that 2-3 days later.

Me too

 

[devils4ever]

Hmmm. I'll have to get to my LHBS ASAP!

 

[devils4ever]

What happens when you underpitch? Off flavors?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

With a yeast like this, you'll just get a little more of a lag period, and a bit more yeast expression but that's about it.

 

[JohnSand]

I think it varies. Some recommend an underpitch on Belgians to increase esters. I have "underpitched" that very yeast in a Belgian Strong with excellent results. That was one vial, no starter in a beer that finished at 8% after sugar feedings. I have also ruined a beer with sick, weak yeast. I do not always use "Pro" pitch rates, generally the manufacturer's recommendation.

 

[devils4ever]

I bought another yeast pack today. However, I came home this afternoon and the fermentation is now pretty active. I might as well pitch it, but should I still make a starter which will take a few days or just pitch the yeast directly from the pack?

 

[Comfort_Zone]

At this point there's no point in pitching it. Not that you can't, but it won't do anything. If you're gonna pitch it just pitch it directly.

 

[IslandLizard]

Smack, let swell and pitch it. Or better, make a quick 4 hr vitality starter with it in 1 liter starter wort and pitch that.

It will help to finish the beer.

 

[WBB]

Might I also suggest getting some dry yeast us-05 or something and keeping some spares in the fridge.

 

[devils4ever]

Might I also suggest getting some dry yeast us-05 or something and keeping some spares in the fridge.

I always keep some dry yeast as backup, but I didn't want to use it since Wyeast 3787 is unique and the dry yeast wouldn't yield the same results.

 

[IslandLizard]

I always keep some dry yeast as backup, but I didn't want to use it since Wyeast 3787 is unique and the dry yeast wouldn't yield the same results.

That^ has always been my thought too when someone mentions using US-05 as a safety back up. We're not brewing some run of the mill generic American Pale Ale, we're using those unique yeasts for a good reason. Adding US-05 would kill that specific character we're after, completely.

How is the beer coming along so far?

 

[devils4ever]

It's been active since Tuesday afternoon. Not overly active like I would expect from a 1.082 starting gravity. I did pitch the extra yeast pack yesterday morning (not sure if will help, but it can't hurt). The second yeast pack was just as sluggish as the first one--barely swelled overnight. Both yeast packs were dated August 2, 2018. I'm wondering if my LHBS had an issue with these (poor handling, frozen, overheated, etc.). I've never seen a yeast pack act so slowly before. I would have made the yeast starter 2-3 days earlier if I knew.

 

[Comfort_Zone]

It's been active since Tuesday afternoon. Not overly active like I would expect from a 1.082 starting gravity. I did pitch the extra yeast pack yesterday morning (not sure if will help, but it can't hurt). The second yeast pack was just as sluggish as the first one--barely swelled overnight. Both yeast packs were dated August 2, 2018. I'm wondering if my LHBS had an issue with these (poor handling, frozen, overheated, etc.). I've never seen a yeast pack act so slowly before. I would have made the yeast starter 2-3 days earlier if I knew.

In my limited experience, it's not a super crazy fermenter. Just be patient, you'll definitely want to warm it up towards the end if you can, but it's a reliable yeast. Just be patient, it might take a while to get those last few gravity points.

 

[devils4ever]

I usually warm it up after about 2 weeks for a diactyl rest.

 

[JohnSand]

Watch it though, I've had it blow off considerably in 1.070+, and heat up too.

 

[devils4ever]

Just removed blow off tube and take a gravity reading of 1.030. It's on its way!

 

[Dog House Brew]

Warm it up now