Help (quick) with Wyeast 3787 yeast starter

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devils4ever

devils4ever

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I've been brewing forever (decades) and never had this issue. I'm doing a Belgian Tripel tomorrow and made my starter this morning. I smacked my Wyeast 3787 yeast pack this morning and nothing seems to be happening. The pack is not swelling after 9+ hours. My LHBS is usually very good and keep their yeasts refrigerated. I've never done a Tripel before or used this yeast.

So, do I add the yeast to my starter even though it hasn't swelled? Is this yeast bad?

I'm tempted to not brew tomorrow unless this yeast gets going. Thoughts?
 
Sorry I'm late. I believe the packs say that they might not swell. Are you sure you broke the nutrient packet? If so, open the yeast. If it smells yeasty, use it. If it smells rotten, do not. Pitch it in your starter, use it when you are ready. I often use a "vitality starter" and pitch the same day, or next day. In warm weather my ferm fridge finishes the chilling overnight, pitching the next day is generally safe. If your yeast is rotten, a starter may revive it, or you may need more. Keeping dry yeast backup can save a brew. Good luck, keep us posted.
 
JohnSand, thanks for your reply. When I awoke this morning, the yeast pack was swollen! I guess this yeast takes time. So, I added it to my starter. I usually wait 24 hours to let the starter finish, so I might have to wait until tomorrow to pitch the yeast even though my wort should be ready this afternoon.
 
devils4ever said:
JohnSand, thanks for your reply. When I awoke this morning, the yeast pack was swollen! I guess this yeast takes time. So, I added it to my starter. I usually wait 24 hours to let the starter finish, so I might have to wait until tomorrow to pitch the yeast even though my wort should be ready this afternoon.
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Make sure that starter has turned much lighter in color, the sign of growth of lots of new yeast cells. You can easily keep your wort for a day before pitching.
I think it's better to wait to add a good healthy starter than underpitching with an underdeveloped one.

If push comes to shove you can always reboil the wort, or better yet, reheat to pasteurization temps (150-160F and keep there for 10-30 minutes). You may shift your hop profile a little, but most Belgians don't contain a lot of hops. Steep some fresh ones in the 150F wort if you want with an occasional stir (hop stand).
 
As long as you've got activity in the starter you can just throw it in. That yeast is pretty tough so I wouldn't worry about a smack pack not inflating.
 
Well, I waited until evening and pitched the yeast. Here's what it looked like before pitching.

I haven't seen any activity yet this morning, but I'm hoping to see some this afternoon.

Wyeast3787Starter.jpg
 
You should probably get some sort of cover over your stirplate fan. In case you have a blow off. Then you won't soak the fan with wort and yeast!

OOPS! on closer inspection of the picture I see it has a Plexiglas cover. NICE!
 
With a yeast like this, you'll just get a little more of a lag period, and a bit more yeast expression but that's about it.
 
I think it varies. Some recommend an underpitch on Belgians to increase esters. I have "underpitched" that very yeast in a Belgian Strong with excellent results. That was one vial, no starter in a beer that finished at 8% after sugar feedings. I have also ruined a beer with sick, weak yeast. I do not always use "Pro" pitch rates, generally the manufacturer's recommendation.
 
I bought another yeast pack today. However, I came home this afternoon and the fermentation is now pretty active. I might as well pitch it, but should I still make a starter which will take a few days or just pitch the yeast directly from the pack?
 
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At this point there's no point in pitching it. Not that you can't, but it won't do anything. If you're gonna pitch it just pitch it directly.
 
Smack, let swell and pitch it. Or better, make a quick 4 hr vitality starter with it in 1 liter starter wort and pitch that.

It will help to finish the beer.
 
WBB said:
Might I also suggest getting some dry yeast us-05 or something and keeping some spares in the fridge.
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I always keep some dry yeast as backup, but I didn't want to use it since Wyeast 3787 is unique and the dry yeast wouldn't yield the same results.
 
devils4ever said:
I always keep some dry yeast as backup, but I didn't want to use it since Wyeast 3787 is unique and the dry yeast wouldn't yield the same results.
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That^ has always been my thought too when someone mentions using US-05 as a safety back up. We're not brewing some run of the mill generic American Pale Ale, we're using those unique yeasts for a good reason. Adding US-05 would kill that specific character we're after, completely.

How is the beer coming along so far?
 
It's been active since Tuesday afternoon. Not overly active like I would expect from a 1.082 starting gravity. I did pitch the extra yeast pack yesterday morning (not sure if will help, but it can't hurt). The second yeast pack was just as sluggish as the first one--barely swelled overnight. Both yeast packs were dated August 2, 2018. I'm wondering if my LHBS had an issue with these (poor handling, frozen, overheated, etc.). I've never seen a yeast pack act so slowly before. I would have made the yeast starter 2-3 days earlier if I knew.
 
devils4ever said:
It's been active since Tuesday afternoon. Not overly active like I would expect from a 1.082 starting gravity. I did pitch the extra yeast pack yesterday morning (not sure if will help, but it can't hurt). The second yeast pack was just as sluggish as the first one--barely swelled overnight. Both yeast packs were dated August 2, 2018. I'm wondering if my LHBS had an issue with these (poor handling, frozen, overheated, etc.). I've never seen a yeast pack act so slowly before. I would have made the yeast starter 2-3 days earlier if I knew.
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In my limited experience, it's not a super crazy fermenter. Just be patient, you'll definitely want to warm it up towards the end if you can, but it's a reliable yeast. Just be patient, it might take a while to get those last few gravity points.
 
3787 is a pretty sturdy strain and IME, only gets better if underpitched. I normally do 2L starters for Belgians but this yeast is a house strain for me and I normally don't bother with starters, just pitching 4oz of unwashed, saved slurry. YMMV.
 
Jayjay1976 said:
3787 is a pretty sturdy strain and IME, only gets better if underpitched. I normally do 2L starters for Belgians but this yeast is a house strain for me and I normally don't bother with starters, just pitching 4oz of unwashed, saved slurry. YMMV.
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I'm always amazed at how much you can change the flavor profile as your pitch rate changes with yeasts like 3787. Underpitching is definitely recommended if you want to really bring out the ester profile.
 
Just raised the temp to 68F and took another gravity reading of 1.020. I was hoping to get more attenuation down closer to the 1.010 - 1.014 range. Is this possible with this yeast?
 
My first use of it went from 1.073 to 1.010, using some candi sugar feedings. Give it time, as some have reported it slow to finish. Don't be afraid to warm it even more, it's quite happy in the seventies.
 
It's a slow finisher, but it'll get there. Don't be afraid to get it up into the 70s if you have to. I've taken it from 1.083 town to 1.004.
 
Yeah, I did use Candi Sugar. Here's the recipe for my 4.35 gal batch:
Belgian Tripel
----------------
12-3/4 lb Pils malt
1/2 lb Aromatic malt
1 lb Clear Candi sugar
1.7 oz Tradition hops (60 min)
0.6 oz Saaz hops (15 min)
*****************
20 min mash at 122F
30 min mash at 149F
30 min mash at 158F

SG = 1.082.

I just raised the temperature to 70F on the fermenter.
 
devils4ever said:
1 lb Clear Candi sugar
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Just for kicks, it's very easy to make candi sugar yourself, all the way up to "D-60" or even D-90. Higher takes more dexterity, lower is easier.
Clear candi sugar is the easiest and quickest of all, and can even be substituted by plain regular sugar or invert sugar. I doubt anyone can taste the difference in a beer.
 
Clear candi sugar is the easiest and quickest of all, and can even be substituted by plain regular sugar or invert sugar. I doubt anyone can taste the difference in a beer.
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I've submitted tripels to competitions before with clear candy or just plain table sugar. Never had a comment about that from the judges. Usually it's just them nitpicking the yeast profile.
 
OK, it's been 19 days since brew day and the gravity is down to 1.007. I'm assuming it's done?

It was at 1.020 at day 9, 1.014 at day 12. At day 10, I raised temperature to +70F. The last couple of points took a while. This is definitely a slow fermenting yeast.
 

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